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Food Elitist? - Page 8

post #141 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldadeedlit View Post
omg.... :Puke !!!
I hear you! I'm glad I dont even LIKE beef!
post #142 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by amyleigh33 View Post
Now that's unfair, I think I quantified my statement. I said that eating organic was a priority for us, so we sacrificed other things that we might have instead in favour of buying organic. All I intended with my post was an anecdotal example of people who you would THINK couldn't afford organics based on income, but do, and explained how it can be done.

I was not trying to be unfair but just pointing out that for some of us we don't really have anything left to sacrifice so we can buy more organic foods. I think I'm a little defensive because I know how important organic foods are I prefer to buy them (they actually are high on my piority list) but finacially it's just not possible for us to buy mostly/all oragnic foods. It sucks not having the income to simply feed your family the way you feel is best.
I am enjoying reading how other low-income families are making it work though!!
Also it's hard for me to nak and type so my post are short. I really didn't mean what I wrote to be as harsh as it seems.
post #143 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldadeedlit
omg.... !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by barose View Post
I hear you! I'm glad I dont even LIKE beef!
That's not even the half of it! But there was a post in the TF forum about how Sally Fallon said that if push came to shove, conventional beef and lamb were better to buy than conventional pork and chicken. I don't know the exact reason, but I shudder at the thought.

But I just wanted to say that the economic problem is much larger than what one's husband makes. Schlosser is good about pointing out that wage is just not keeping up with the cost of living. That is also one of the reprecussions of the success of fast food restaurants and corporations. People are expected to live on much less than just a few generations ago. They drive down the price of food by driving down wages, then we're stuck unable to afford decent, unaltered food. I think a part of this is to stop supporting companies that contribute to the problem. Hopefully the new movie about fast food nation will open some eyes. Oddly though, people have a way of shrugging and moving on. I can hear my brother saying, "Channel 4 news said that s**t is okay in food as long as we cook it at the right temperature."
post #144 of 171
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Originally Posted by Mommay View Post
I can hear my brother saying, "Channel 4 news said that s**t is okay in food as long as we cook it at the right temperature."
:

And you are right that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. I think our first mistake was ever making nourishing our bodies about money.
post #145 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommay View Post
That's not even the half of it! But there was a post in the TF forum about how Sally Fallon said that if push came to shove, conventional beef and lamb were better to buy than conventional pork and chicken. I don't know the exact reason, but I shudder at the thought.

It's because the former get more sunlight/fresh air than the latter who never see the outdoors at all.
post #146 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheacoby View Post
:

And you are right that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. I think our first mistake was ever making nourishing our bodies about money.
Amen to this!!!

The mass food industry doesn't give a darn about the "food" they are marketing to consumers. When I saw the "Future of Food" that was really eye-opening. Good food should be available to people despite their social status- but instead the junk is marketed as more affordable. It seems like we have to defend ourselves from the onslaught of mess that is out there, which (with fast food joints on every corner) a hard thing to do.
post #147 of 171
This information was also in the activism forum, but I thought is was interesting info to share here:


http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia...paign_KEY=6204

sorry if a little off topic, but I thought this was important to share, Thanks.
post #148 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki98 View Post
This information was also in the activism forum, but I thought is was interesting info to share here:


http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia...paign_KEY=6204

sorry if a little off topic, but I thought this was important to share, Thanks.
WOW!! This is sickening! You are right about that.
post #149 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurgundyElephant View Post
One has to shift one's mindset. Organic is not more expensive... it is the cost of food. Eat what is in season, stock up when it's on sale, utilize your food dehydrator and your freezer.

We eat primarily organic... but mainly because my kids are on Feingold. We don't eat fast food. My kids have also been healthier this year than they were before. We've had no Doctor's appointments for colds or other illnesses, which means I am saving money there. I spend more on food, of course, but not that much more.


I haven`t read any further than this post, but wanted to make a comment about this:

1: I am Norwegian, living in Norway. And here, organic is WAAAY more expensive. Way more. 2 lbs of unorganic apples cost as much as 3 or 4 organic apples. Organic chese is 50% more expensive. Organic meat is sometimes twive the price, other times "just" 50% more expensive.

There is no way I would be able to but all (or even most) organic food. It`s just not an option.

2: If I was to eat only what was in season here in Norway, I wouldn`t eat much veggies or fruit at all during the winterhalf of the year. This is Norway. Cold and not suitable for most fruits even during summer. So if I was to eat only organic AND only in season, there wouldn`t be much of anything green in my diet.

Just wanted to show that what is truth to you (generic you) isn`t always everybode elses truht.

Oooh, and BTW: All medicalstuff is free of charge for all children in Norway. And adults only pay a part of the bill. Operations and hospitalstays are free for all. (Except medicine. We pay a small sum of our medicine. But not much.)
So I wouldn`t be able to save any money from that, either. But my son is more or less never sick anyway (Knock on wood), even though we eat mostly nonorganic.
post #150 of 171
I think BurgundyElephant's point was more that the actual price that most Westerners pay for their food -- conventional grocery store food -- is artificially low, thanks to market pressure, subsidies, cheap imports, etc.
post #151 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyTamara View Post

Oooh, and BTW: All medicalstuff is free of charge for all children in Norway. And adults only pay a part of the bill. Operations and hospitalstays are free for all. (Except medicine. We pay a small sum of our medicine. But not much.)
So I wouldn`t be able to save any money from that, either. But my son is more or less never sick anyway (Knock on wood), even though we eat mostly nonorganic.

That’s because you live in a civilized country.
post #152 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisen View Post
I think BurgundyElephant's point was more that the actual price that most Westerners pay for their food -- conventional grocery store food -- is artificially low, thanks to market pressure, subsidies, cheap imports, etc.
Oh, ok.. Sometimes my understanding of the (english) written word somewhat sucks.

But, even though Norwegian government is heavy into subsidies, food (all food, also conventional,) is a lot more expensive than most other places. Wich ofcourse makes our organic food even more expensive,too.

And I have interpreted (majorly wrong spelling, I`m sure. ) several posts in this thread to say that organic wouldbe affordable to most? people if they sacrified other non-essentials. Not in my country, with my income. I don`t buy non-essentials. I can`t afford it.

I buy organic when I can. What I can afford.

My hope is that one day organic food will be affordable for "normal people" like me. But as long as only 1-2% or Norwegian farmers are organic, and most grocerystores have less than 10 organic items, I have to settle for non.organic for the most part.
post #153 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
See this is my question from the beginning? Why does someone have a right to question others choices? Not knocking you, but are you totally correct in how you live? Do you treat all people equitably? Is your heart completely without malice? Do you walk everywhere instead of drive? Is your house a total "green home"? Are you off the grid? Did you bf or did you not?
(These questions are directed at you, simply rhetorical)

People my point is there is a snobbery that suggests my choices are right and if you are not making my choice its because you dont care, you dont plan, you arent using your money to the best of your ability. Who passes out the halo's that say your way is the best way?

What I hope is that we acknowledge that what we do is best for our families. Without having to justify a choice. To me elitism suggests people owe an explaination for making a different choice.
If a person goes to McDonald's to pick up breakfast before work each mother, and then whines to me that she can't afford organic, that is hypocrisy. I'm not asking her the questions, she's offering me conflicting information. I'm not judging her as a bad person, but simply noticing that there is not truth to what she is telling herself and me. She is one example.

I have two other office mates who have different "excuses." I do not solicit their excuses, but they know that I shop at the natural foods co-op during my lunch hour, and they offer reasons why they do not. If this one co-worker said, "I like McDonalds. I'd rather spend my money there than on organic." Then, she would not be hypocritical.
post #154 of 171
Crunchy Tamara--

I don't think from your discription that the premium from organics is that much higher than a lot of the U.S. I bought milk yesterday for $6.19 a gallon; the conventional was $1.88. What probabily is different is the percentage of income people spend on food. Food still is not a very high portion of middle and upper income Americans.

Yooper--FYI there is no FW is Green Bay, just Madision and Milwaukee. The natural section at Woodman's might be worth checking out if your ever in town.
post #155 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnice View Post
Crunchy Tamara--

I don't think from your discription that the premium from organics is that much higher than a lot of the U.S. I bought milk yesterday for $6.19 a gallon; the conventional was $1.88. What probabily is different is the percentage of income people spend on food. Food still is not a very high portion of middle and upper income Americans.

Yooper--FYI there is no FW is Green Bay, just Madision and Milwaukee. The natural section at Woodman's might be worth checking out if your ever in town.
OMG! I have never had to pay more than $1 more for organic milk than regular milk! That's just awful. I take it there isn't a lot of competition from a lot of stores offering organic produce there.
post #156 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by race_kelly View Post
OMG! I have never had to pay more than $1 more for organic milk than regular milk! That's just awful. I take it there isn't a lot of competition from a lot of stores offering organic produce there.
I'm not exactly sure why the big difference. Nearly all the regular groceries carry organic milk and I can also by very local organic not ultrapastuerized milk in glass (if I'm ambitious enough to make a special trip). I don't know if I'd consider this area the hotbed of the organic universe or anything, but I think there are plenty of choices. We are pretty much near/at the epicenter of the dairy industry.
post #157 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyTamara View Post
1: I am Norwegian, living in Norway. And here, organic is WAAAY more expensive. Way more. 2 lbs of unorganic apples cost as much as 3 or 4 organic apples. Organic chese is 50% more expensive. Organic meat is sometimes twive the price, other times "just" 50% more expensive.
European countries have higher standards of safety regarding meat, and require labeling of genetically modified foods. I'm assuming that's true of Norway. If that was the case, I'd feel better about buying conventional foods. But here, even if I could get past the pesticides issue (and some conventional veggies and fruits have smaller amounts than others), there is still the issue of gmo. So my point is that I think you're doing okay.

ETA: In fact, one of the downfalls of ranchers in America is that the way they produce beef tailored to American companies makes the beef unsellable in Europe (because beef feed contains chicken s**t and other animal products), as well as a lot of other gross stuff. blech.
post #158 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnice View Post

Yooper--FYI there is no FW is Green Bay, just Madision and Milwaukee. The natural section at Woodman's might be worth checking out if your ever in town.
I stand corrected then The nearest WF is 6 hours away But I can still get organics on a limited budget between out co-op, member run natural foods buying club, and local farms. It did take a few years to figure it all out to get where I am now though......

For people who live in areas where organics are hard to get.... Anyone can start a buying club. I save a great deal of money, even over conventional, by buying 25 pound bags of organic wheat berries, steel cut oats, beans, etc..... I know storage space is a problem for lots of people. But if you have storage, this is a good way to go. I use lined Subway pickle buckets with tops. They were free and I can store my stuff out in the garage or basement without worrying about animals. The lining is important though.....the pickle smell NEVER goes away. I also barter for a double share of CSA and can away one whole share. We eat something from the summer bounty almost every day in the winter and my winter grocery bill is very low since we live on the summer harvest and bulk whole grains/beans. Dh calls it mystery soup. I am very bad about labelling the jars and each week I would make some sort of veggie/grain/bean soup depending on what I have that week. We never know until we start to eat it what it is exactly......
post #159 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
People my point is there is a snobbery that suggests my choices are right and if you are not making my choice its because you dont care, you dont plan, you arent using your money to the best of your ability. Who passes out the halo's that say your way is the best way?

I believe people have to make the best choices possible. I don't look down on anyone for the choices they make. At the same time, my inner monologue agrees and disagrees with certain choices. If we're on this board, I'm certain we ALL make judgments of this kind. I'm sure even you would look at a mom who feeds her kids all junk food with no effort to include fruits and veggies as bad choices. And you would have good reason. There are good reasons to go organic. If you still choose not to buy organic or can't, that's fine, but imo, organic is the right choice, and should be a goal even if it's not what we can afford all the time.
post #160 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnice View Post
I'm not exactly sure why the big difference. Nearly all the regular groceries carry organic milk and I can also by very local organic not ultrapastuerized milk in glass (if I'm ambitious enough to make a special trip). I don't know if I'd consider this area the hotbed of the organic universe or anything, but I think there are plenty of choices. We are pretty much near/at the epicenter of the dairy industry.
I wonder what does make that much difference. I'm in MA, so it seems there would be a longer way for organic milk and such to make it here. Isn't that weird. Totally OT, but wouldn't that be an interesting study.
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