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Talk Radio: That's Entertainment...or is it? - Page 2

post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by applejuice
I have had to tolerate alot of people being extremely rude straight into my face for alot of reasons.

I have even had people lie straight into my face.

I have had alot of abuse in my life.

Perhaps that is why I can tolerate TalkRadio.

Who knows.
Applejuice, I am sincerely sorry that you have had to tolerate so much cruelty. I wanted to cry when I saw what you wrote. I guess that is why I have a hard time tolerating Talkradio - because my empathy factor is so high. When I see or hear such abuse I either react with tears and total weakness or I rise to the defense of those abused. I was like this as a child, too - for handicapped kids who would get picked on. I've been abused (albeit only once was I physically abused), too, as a result of those actions - but I never saw it as such - I saw it as fighting the good fight and suffering for a good cause.

So here comes perhaps the question that needs to be dealt with as a result of this article - how much tolerance is needed? These boards have set some bounderies - they have a limit to what they will tolerate. But things are different in IRL and what you have experienced IRL should not have been allowed. Is it a behavioral problem not to tolerate abuse or to have to tolerate abuse? Do you feel as a result of your abuses stronger and wiser - or numbed?
post #22 of 36
The desensitization El refers to is what concerns me. That people can, over and over, hear the same thing (and we must admit that NPR tends not to beat subjects to death, at least), to the point where they truly, deeply, reverently believe it--even though the majority of evidence supports an opposing view.

Global warming, as an example. This friend refuses to believe humans and our greenhouse gases play a role in the destruction of the ozone and resulting atmospheric changes on our little planet.

OK, believe it.

But--does that mean we should keep the public driving one person per giganto-SUV, and crank the heat in winter, and take that daily 20 minute hot shower, and eat beef daily, and consume consume consume? Is that the logical conclusion to have?

And, as a someone who sees herself as a victim re: the stares and occasional mistreatment by bigots for being Muslim, HOW is it OK to listen to someone stereotyping other ethnic/religious etc. groups? And what happens when the person you so respect on the radio finally groups YOU among the lazy, the stupid, the satanic, etc?

I am not Mexican. I know a very limited number of people of Hispanic origin. Why should I care if someone calls this particular ethnic group lazy? Well, I do--because the few people I know from this group are all very hardworking, intelligent individuals, so such a stereotype must be wrong and stupid.

Besides...you never know when it will be YOU they're coming after.

Again, intolerance just should not be tolerated. The world is too small and too fragile.
post #23 of 36
Never could plug into it..... true "talk" radio that is. From the gitgo I found it to violent. And misogynistic and boring - I mean they go round and round with the same issues! And all the stations seem to be talking abt the same thing on any given day.

But, I did listen to WGN for a while. Huge station out of Chicago, with news and talk. Definite conservative leanings. I have found that I can't stomach the pro-war, pro-tax cut, pro-patriot discussion anymore. NPR gets all my time now-has been for some time. I love hearing about news that would not even get a mention on any major network. REAL news, not regurgitated pap over and over.

I, too, cannot believe the amount of ppl I have discourse with that simply repeat Rush Limbaugh (or worse) back to me......................

On a (perhaps) positive note: I've been having a daily back and forth with a Rushite and in discussing why a larger anti-war presence this time vs Bosnia I proposed that perhaps the internet helped, greatly, to get the message out. Mother Jones did an article on Eli Pariser of MoveOn (anyone else shocked that he is only 22?).

So, while the angry folks have the airwaves we can have the www.............

?


El
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by Els' 3 Ones
On a (perhaps) positive note: I've been having a daily back and forth with a Rushite and in discussing why a larger anti-war presence this time vs Bosnia I proposed that perhaps the internet helped, greatly, to get the message out.
My theory on that is the leadership style of the two Presidents - I ran into another Ami (who worked in DC for the G'mnt) and she said, basically, "He (Bush) may even be right, but the WAY he goes about it is wrong!" He comes across world wide like a power hungry bully! And that brings people out of their cubby holes to protest who may have protested by Bosnia, but didn't feel mad enough.
post #25 of 36
Regarding talkradio, entertainment, and first amendment rights...

I refer to Article 19 of the United Nations Human Rights Charter:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers."

Opinions are neither right nor are wrong.

One does not have to agree with them. They are just opinions.

...and one needs to learn to choose their battles wisely.
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally posted by applejuice
Opinions are neither right nor are wrong.

One does not have to agree with them. They are just opinions.
I agree! My problem comes when someone spouts off opinions as facts, when they are actually not true (like Clinton admin. having a deficit (for the first 2 years this was true (left over from Bush I) but for the last 6 there was a surplus) etc. . .) and they go uncorrected. Don't you just hate that "don't confuse me with the facts I've made up my mind" attitude? It's like people sticking their fingers in their ears while someone else is talking and saying, "I can't hear you, hmmm, LALALALA ....." There are actually laws here that you cannot defame someone's character, you could be taken to court to prove your comment about someone is true. Could you imagine laws like that in the US? And there are already so many lawsuits!!! Maybe it is an overreaction to WWII - but it certainly is much more pleasant and seems more tolerant here. There are a lot of political discussions - but a high level of tolerence for the arious opinions. When I first came here and got into a political discussion I felt real discomfort and pain at the degree to which they are willing to go in discussing politics - in one case I was just sure that the person couldn't possibly like me anymore - but I was surprised to see them go on as though nothing had happened. I had to get used to the degree fo political talk there was and the level of acceptence. But ignorance has little acceptence here - they won't let that go (German thoroughness!) And chosing your battles carefully - it seems like a lot of those people on the radio are battling over little stuff - like they are just full of rage and can't wait to vent it somewhere. That's why I can't stand to listen to it. I do think it would be interesting to study the effects of talkradio on the tolerence and violence level of the population. It would be a really hard study to do - you'd have to figure out first if the talkradio programs just attract intolerant people or create or contribute to the intolerence - and how would you be able to measure that kinda stuff anyway. Applejuice, don't get me wrong - I'm not calling for an all out ban of talkradio - I'm just pondering the different aspects of the phenomena and the article - and my opinion about it all . . . you aren't mad are you?
post #27 of 36
Just get handle on what Talkradio is....

Nearly twenty years ago an arrogant buffoon of a man had a radio show in Sacramento, California, a relatively small town not too far from San Francisco. He did something called "caller abortions" with a vacuum cleaner noise in the background and made all kinds of fun of gay people.

Very politically incorrect.

The station manager was a gay man who liked the ratings and $ this nut brought to the station. This buffoon is now in New York, in the "EIB", Rush Limbaugh. Don't like him, don't listen to him. He is a bore, but wildly popular for some reason ($). I work when he is on here on the "Left Coast", and I don't think he even agrees with his own drivel, but there he is. I really cannot figure out his popularity. He even had his own television show for a while.

I guess in the USA we have freedom of speech and it works as "well" as it does for us because of our culture; there are limits as Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "you can not yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre" just because we have the First Amendment. I believe in other places, as in Germany, there are limits on "free" speech as I understand it because it works there. That may be a reaction/aftermath to WWII.

If I do not like what I hear, I turn the dial. I have the freedom to do that.

I guess it may be because of my age; I cannot stand some music stations, even the oldies stations. The talkradio programs with Toni Grant and David Viscott kept me company intellectually in the pm when my dear children were little and I was a SAHM.

Television talk shows used to be fairly informative. I remember seeing the Colfax family on the Phil Donahue show; they were the homeschooling family that sent three of four sons to Harvard; their first day of formal school was their first day of their freshman year at Harvard. The New York audience was quite hostile toward them. I found this to be an interesting lesson in sociological attitudes. The mother, Micki Colfax, told the studio that homeschooling would have been easier in New York with all of the cultural landmarks and museums rather than on a mountaintop in rural Contra Costa County, California.

Now I feel television has become an intellectual wasteland.

I am hoping that talk radio does not become that way. I do listen to cooking shows, car repair shows, $ investment shows, consumer information, legal advice, and some political and current event discourse. I often find that the moderator is not as well informed as he/she should be.

I am hoping that radio talk shows maintain a level of intelligence.

I'd hate to see more "Howard Stern" types.

DH and I enjoy listening to some shows and discussing what we hear. We have met some of the local personalities which makes it interesting. I feel that I am a responsible talkradio listener and would not like that take away from me.

If you do not like it, turn the dial. Save your battle for another day.
post #28 of 36
I listen to talk radio as a hobby, and I gotta say that I 100 percent agree with applejuice.

Everyone always wants free speech, until they run into something that offends them or that they don't agree with. And I really don't get why people think that radio talkingheads are representing themselves as factual news sources. Have those who accuse them of doing so listened to any one of the programs in question for a whole week?

If you do that, honestly, you will see that their opinions are given vehemently (and often times with some intellectual backup) in the same manner that people represent themselves here in the activism forum.

How far are you willing to take the censorship here? Say we get all the conservative obnoxious folks off the airways. Do we shut down the Washington Post? Do we outlaw newspaper op-ed pages? Should we shut down Pacifica, as well as Drudge? Who decides who is worthy to state their opinions on the airwaves?

If you don't like it, turn your dial and boycott the advertisers. Normally I am able to laugh at the shows (and it's intereting to hear a different slant), but sometimes I must turn it off when I feel myself getting too angry. I am an adult. I am capable of this. I do not need to restrict someone else's speech or demand censorship to take care of myself, especially when it can be done so easily.

And no, I don't accept "but they would love to censor us" as a valid argument. No dice. Preemptive strikes and two wrongs are not a moral or ethical choice.

Incidentally, sometimes things you hear on the talk radio shows will hearten you. I believe it is FAR too prevalent for 'liberals' to dehumanize conservatives and assume them to all be bigots. Yet this past week, I listened to two solid hours of Bill O'Reilly ripping in to callers who were trying to justify the 'white only' prom in Georgia...when that story hardly made the news on NPR or other 'real news' media. You could tell that he was truly angry and disturbed that people thought that could possibly be justified in any way. It reminded me to look at him as a real person who actually, despite my distaste for his political views, might be a kind or decent man...and convicted me how hypocritical it is for me to write someone I don't know off as a horrible person based on a very one-dimensional side of him that I know--from his political rants.

If one looks at MY political rants on this board over the last six months, I am sure that someone who doesn't share my views could easily get the impression that I am a hateful, angry person at the core of my being. That is not who I am...but this is my forum to vent and be argumentative.

If we proclaim ourselves to be open-minded, gentle people, then we must also be willing to apply that to people we don't like. And acknowledge that when we get angry at things like this, it might just be because a little part of ourselves feels miffed that those people not only have a bigger forum for expressing their opinion, but that they are essentially doing the same thing that most people do in a heated conversation--expressing their opinion/feelings as fact. I am jealous that I don't get rich telling people "like it is" too! But the sad thing is that even if I had my own radio show, there would be plenty of people who would think me just as obnoxious and close-minded as Mr. Limbaugh or Mr. Savage.

The danger is not talk radio. The danger is the temptation to remove that which we disagree with as a kneejerk reaction, rather than learning to train ourselves to respond in a constructive fashion to it.
post #29 of 36
I agree that the danger is not talk radio. Rather, the danger is in the appallingly uneducated populace we have, who could listen to such rants and believe them as fact, notwithstanding the sheer absence of supporting and verifiable information. It's also quite disturbing, given the apparent credulity of the American public, that so much of talk radio is vitriolic right-wing pap. If we're going to have an uneducated, credulous public, then at least we could have some balance in the crap that gets spewed across the airways (Well, many not: let's hear it for _more_ vitriolic, unsupported nonsense over the radio, just as long as it's left wing! : )
post #30 of 36
I hear what you are saying Tigerchild(in above snippet that NM quoted). But for me you have only pointed to the quintessential difference between NPR and right wing radio. I don't_have_to listen to heated "opinions" expressed as fact from the hosts. Like Amy, I listen to Brian Lehrer - WNYC- and frankly, he usually just asks questions of his guests. He is very good at it in fact. He actually manages to do it without insulting or belittling them. What a novel idea! I rarely hear a diatribe from him about anything. Prior to the "war" it was easy to tell from his questions that he didn't think it was the "right" thing to do and needed to be convinced. So he brought on a gazillion guests from all over the spectrum to try to convince him and us otherwise (or not).

And let's see...I haven't heard any racial slurs, immigrant bashing, women bashing, insults or belittling. I haven't heard one comment about those "damn conservatives" and their mucking up everything. I think it is a sad reflection on the people in this country that they actually would listen to someone who does any of the things I have listed above.

It has nothing to do with not agreeing with their opinions, it has to do with the level of discourse. I will take mine without insults, bashing, racism and sexism thankyouverymuch.

~Deirdre

PS ~ TC, I in no way support "banning" talk radio from the airwaves so this is not in response to the rest of your post which seems to be arguing against that idea.
post #31 of 36
Deirdre makes the exact point. It's not about "people we don't like." It's about absurdities and stereotypes. Free speech is great. Is the use of racial slurs, misogynistic remarks, and personal attacks the stuff we protect under the Constitution? If so, how do we protect those who end up hurt or victimized by actions "inspired" by such talk? And what about our rights to disagree with a war our administration chooses to start? This has made some of us guilty of treason--or at lesat haters of democracy--in the eyes of those who celebrate their right to free speech.

Politics is politics, and left and right is one thing. But the use of the airwaves to target ethnic, racial, religious, etc. groups for attack is quite another.
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Nearly twenty years ago an arrogant buffoon of a man had a radio show in Sacramento, California, a relatively small town not too far from San Francisco. He did something called "caller abortions" with a vacuum cleaner noise in the background and made all kinds of fun of gay people.
Quote:
The station manager was a gay man who liked the ratings and $ this nut brought to the station. This buffoon is now in New York, in the "EIB", Rush Limbaugh.
Nice. I'm sure all those who love Rush, are going to pretend you didn't bring up that little tidbit from Rush's past. Although I thought it was noteworthy enough to bring it up again.

By the way, have you ever noticed those who bestow good, ol' American and right wing values... they frequently exhibit horrible grammar? I know I have heard them call into various talk shows, or they show up on tv, or other places and they don't have the slightest idea how to use a verb properly. "Is" "are" "They is"... you get the drift... how does that happen?

By the way, Jessica Lynch's family was very painful to listen to in press conferences...they simply butchered verbs. And of course the brother's t'shirt which read, "chick magnet" was extra poignant.

However, one of my friends who is very conservative and loves Rush has beautiful grammar. But then she is also kind of bitter, talks a lot about her jealousy of others who have more than her and of course has little snips about "foreigners". Also, I think may say anti-semitic comments behind my back. I'm not jewish but she knows those comments wouldn't fly in front of me. But she does have a perfect handle on verbs.


Oh, and another person I know who listens to Rush...well, she used to say mean things about mexican immigrants, until I snapped at those those comments.

That is my sampling of Rush fans.
post #33 of 36
Does anyone else find it somewhat ironic that it's perfectly okay to stereotype conservative talkie fans as ignorant hicks who don't speak english and are racist--all the while saying they don't like talkie shows because the hosts and callers stereotype all liberals as being stupid/immoral/weak/self-hating folks?

See, this is why I really enjoy (for the most part) listening to talk radio, and then hanging out with folks that share my political viewpoints (which are pretty much diametrically opposed to the opinions expressed on aforementioned shows).

It really restores my faith in humanity that we're all pretty much the same after all.
post #34 of 36
Tigerchild:

As I indicated,

Quote:
That is my sampling of Rush fans.
the emphasis should be on MY.

If that's not your experience, great.
post #35 of 36
I've seen people be downright vicious to folks like Nursing Mother on this forum simply because she disagrees with their politics, and states her own beliefs.

Now I've seen people get trashed because of improper use of grammar (which is kind of funny, considering how common that is on message boards as a whole--bad grammar and mispelling, that is...including THIS ONE).

So. Should I therefore extrapolate that all people who enjoy reading the venting here on the activism forum are cruel, close-minded bigots to anything but their own writing format and politicial views?

Ummmm...no.

It's always kind of interesting though, that it's okay to do it to the other side though, neh?

Listen to the talk shows for awhile, then listen to anti-talk show commentary, seriously. You will see that EVERYTHING that people say about each other is 100% alike, save for a few opposite substitutions. This is why I say that it really helps to restore my faith sometimes, because it reminds me that we are all more alike and more human than we want to admit.

I guess some people don't think that's a good thing, but I sure do. At least there is hope, then. That I might be wrong in assuming that everyone who disagrees with me as an idiot...that other people who assume I'm an idiot might be wrong about me. That there really are vestiges of humanity underneath all the bluster. Comforting, at least in my opinion.
post #36 of 36
Tigerchild ...

Uh huh.





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