Well, if I wasn't motivated to think about UC'ing yet I surely would be after today...
I was discussing protocols with my Midwife in regards to homebirth and was SO NOT PLEASED with the thinly veiled threats and scare tactics involved.
:
I'm not talking complicated stuff either...
We don't want midwives hovering around me unless absolutely necessary (Would prefer they be in another room. ) we don't want excessive monitoring, checks, we want my DH to catch the baby, do NOT want to be coached during pushing etc.
We also wanted to know all of the indications for hospital transfer because we've been asking all along and receiving different answers across the board because I've only seen MY midwife 4 times this pregnancy (Half hour visits.) and the rest of the time I'd have to see the other midwives in the practice.
I knew they were conservative thanks to their lovely governing body, but OMFG are they conservative!
If I have to hear "Well, in the end HOW the baby gets there doesn't matter as long as it's healthy." ONE MORE TIME I am going to SCREAM! I was so traumatised by my last birth and had huge PPP/PPD issues only to find out that much of what happened to me could have been prevented had I been fully informed of what was ACTUALLY going on (Hospital protocols and trying to not "upset" the OB...) vs. what I was being threatened with ("Your babies will die." etc.) and I'm realizing that this is a very baby focused vs. mother focused practice.
It's not like I'm wanting to willfully endanger my child, I just want to create a comfortable birthing environment so that the likelihood of having complications are fewer etc. I WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR ME AND MY BABY!
So here's some of the questions I ask...
How hands of can you be, what are the MINIMUM guidelines for care?
I *must* be monitored every 15 minutes with a doppler. We said we thought this was excessive (Heck, in the hospital they were more than content to let an hour or so go by if everything was going well.) and asked if we could waive. We also proposed every half an hour or an hour with shocked results of why would we WANT to risk anything? We mention waiving and are told that it would "...not look good on us as parents if anything happened and there were any records of us not wanting monitoring." Threats now? OMFG... Hello! I have a right to informed consent and will gladly waive anything and last time I checked (And I've checked!) a baby isn't considered to be a person until it's BORN and I have a say in MY OWN CARE!
Not to mention that during transition they want to monitor the WHOLE time. WTF? The last thing I want is someone that close on me when I'm pushing out a baby. Not to mention I'm planning a waterbirth. Again, offer to waive, politely state that we understand that there may be slight additional risks etc., get more of the "it's not important HOW the baby gets here" statements. AGH! We even metioned that we have our OWN doppler with display and will shout if anything drops too much etc., but this is not received well. They "have" to be there. UGH
We also mentioned that we REALLY want DH to catch the baby. A four-handed catch is pretty much presented as the way to go as we want "someone with experience" catching the baby. Insert horror tactic about nuchal cord. We mention that we're completely comfortable with anything that can arise and know when to ask for help especially if they're just in the next room (Hell, DH knows how to handle nuchal cord and IMO we have a better approach to shoulder dystocia than the midwives!) then the tearing issue is brought up. I mention that I don't want my pushing managed and that I believe in instinctive birthing etc, and we banter on that a bit until it's conceded that YES I am willing to tear if it means DH can catch (Because he can't do perineal support if I need it himself obviously...) but they still need to be there in case of resuscitation etc. and why would we risk it? OMFG they're not going to be in the next TOWN- just the next room!!! Enter more patronising lectures on how we "really want" (Oh really, because I'm saying "no we don't" several times over and being pointedly ignored!) someone experienced right there at my crotch. Thank you emergency childbirth- AN 8 YEAR OLD CAN CATCH A BABY for chrissakes!
Yeah, so everything we say pretty much gets shot down. "Why would you want to risk it?" etc. Very un-friendly as far as child protection issues go... Total red flags IMO (This hurts my heart so much. We've had CPS issues with my boys and this is my absolute worst nightmare and they KNOW this and it's being used as a scare tactic.
)
So, onto...
What are the indications for transfer?
Breech- They WILL NOT do any sort of breech and it means an automatic transfer to the hospital where I will "have" to have a c-section unless there's time for me to be flown somewhere else where the OB is comfortable with doing breech deliveries. Note that I would REFUSE said transfer as I refuse to be isolated from my community and MY KIDS for a veriation of normal that I could check myself out of the hospital if they won't honor my waiver (Every time I've brought up waivers I've been shot down and I doubt that my wishes would be honored even if I do waive.) and UC the breech at home. (This was what originally led us to looking into UC because we SO DID NOT agree!) When I mention that I would waive if I were in active labor and attempt breech at the hospital I was literally told that I shouldn't do anything that would make the OB "uncomfortable" (SO I'm supposed to have major abdominal surgery and increas the risk to MY LIFE because the Dr. is "uncomfortable"???) and that the hospital has very strict policies and none of the OB's will do it. Again, said I was willing to waiver, and told that I "don't want to do that.", "it would look bad on you" etc.
:
ANY meconium- No matter how light the staining. Enter horror story as to why I should go to the hospital and how baby will have to be taken away after delivery and monitored. (!!!) They don't want to risk intubating at home, yadda yadda. (I have my own opinions on vigorous suctioning and intubation and the increased risk of infection because of it.) Yes I agree that there is slight additional risk and I would likely agree to transfer if it was thick or particularily dark fluids etc., but I don't believe that with being 5 mins away from the hospital that light meconium is enough of a reason to go OB automatically and start intervening.
Most of the usual stuff I was FINE with, (Too much bleeding etc.) but the expectations for delivery of placenta and the labor taking too long were ridiculous IMO. Not to mention that I have to get out of the pool to birth the placenta becasue of the "theoretical" risk of water embolism (Which I personally think is crap!)
The thing is, we've been asking all of these questions all along but we've never seen the same midwife twice in a row and never had a striaght answer. When we said we had these questions to ask we were told that they're left for the home visit, which will be happening next week. I've had a lot of threatened labor and I said that I think the baby might be COMING next week or so so I wanted to do this NOW. Thank goodness I did! I'm so thankful to have read up on UC and toyed with it before now because I can't imagine what I'd have been left with if these issues were only brought up at 37 weeks. According to their protocols from the lovely governing body this is all supposed to be dealt with BY 36 WEEKS! (Not to mention my "just in case" pre-admission to the hospital.) The way this practice goes I'll likely have a baby before I get my group B strep done or any of this sorted out. (Which was forgotten.)
The one thing I hate is that our wishes are being COMPLETELY ignored. I understand that they have guidelines they have to obey and that's why we offered to waive, waive, waive to make anyone more comfortable, but they failed to inform me that the "recommendations" are all "musts" and informed consent/choice means "Do what I say or else."
I was fully intending to say "buh-bye" if this Q&A period didn't work out but I was so floored by the possible child protection ramifications that were hinted at. We've been "secretly" intending to UC (We'd be fired as clients and blacklisted if we mentioned it- that much is crystal clear. We thought it would be nice to have the backup if needed even if they never knew they were backup as they'd never know we'd intended to UC if I ended up needing them and we'd tell them after the fact when the baby was born healthy.) but I think I might be coming out of the closet on this one. I want to, but I just don't know if that's safe! It's certainly our only option if we want any semblance of the birth we want or if we want any of our COMPLETELY REASONABLE wishes to be respected.
We're still debating on how/if to fire them because I really don't like what the potential response may be and I have other children to think of as well. I REALLY wish this wasn't left until the last minute. UGH!
Never have I felt so negated as a client/patient. The complete lack of respect when we offer to waive and the thinly veiled disgust at our "risky" attitudes towards our child and the open dismissal of MY WISHES for MY BIRTH have just completely FLOORED me.
Ugh
I was discussing protocols with my Midwife in regards to homebirth and was SO NOT PLEASED with the thinly veiled threats and scare tactics involved.
: I'm not talking complicated stuff either...
We don't want midwives hovering around me unless absolutely necessary (Would prefer they be in another room. ) we don't want excessive monitoring, checks, we want my DH to catch the baby, do NOT want to be coached during pushing etc.
We also wanted to know all of the indications for hospital transfer because we've been asking all along and receiving different answers across the board because I've only seen MY midwife 4 times this pregnancy (Half hour visits.) and the rest of the time I'd have to see the other midwives in the practice.
I knew they were conservative thanks to their lovely governing body, but OMFG are they conservative!
If I have to hear "Well, in the end HOW the baby gets there doesn't matter as long as it's healthy." ONE MORE TIME I am going to SCREAM! I was so traumatised by my last birth and had huge PPP/PPD issues only to find out that much of what happened to me could have been prevented had I been fully informed of what was ACTUALLY going on (Hospital protocols and trying to not "upset" the OB...) vs. what I was being threatened with ("Your babies will die." etc.) and I'm realizing that this is a very baby focused vs. mother focused practice.
It's not like I'm wanting to willfully endanger my child, I just want to create a comfortable birthing environment so that the likelihood of having complications are fewer etc. I WANT WHAT'S BEST FOR ME AND MY BABY!
So here's some of the questions I ask...
How hands of can you be, what are the MINIMUM guidelines for care?
I *must* be monitored every 15 minutes with a doppler. We said we thought this was excessive (Heck, in the hospital they were more than content to let an hour or so go by if everything was going well.) and asked if we could waive. We also proposed every half an hour or an hour with shocked results of why would we WANT to risk anything? We mention waiving and are told that it would "...not look good on us as parents if anything happened and there were any records of us not wanting monitoring." Threats now? OMFG... Hello! I have a right to informed consent and will gladly waive anything and last time I checked (And I've checked!) a baby isn't considered to be a person until it's BORN and I have a say in MY OWN CARE!
Not to mention that during transition they want to monitor the WHOLE time. WTF? The last thing I want is someone that close on me when I'm pushing out a baby. Not to mention I'm planning a waterbirth. Again, offer to waive, politely state that we understand that there may be slight additional risks etc., get more of the "it's not important HOW the baby gets here" statements. AGH! We even metioned that we have our OWN doppler with display and will shout if anything drops too much etc., but this is not received well. They "have" to be there. UGH
We also mentioned that we REALLY want DH to catch the baby. A four-handed catch is pretty much presented as the way to go as we want "someone with experience" catching the baby. Insert horror tactic about nuchal cord. We mention that we're completely comfortable with anything that can arise and know when to ask for help especially if they're just in the next room (Hell, DH knows how to handle nuchal cord and IMO we have a better approach to shoulder dystocia than the midwives!) then the tearing issue is brought up. I mention that I don't want my pushing managed and that I believe in instinctive birthing etc, and we banter on that a bit until it's conceded that YES I am willing to tear if it means DH can catch (Because he can't do perineal support if I need it himself obviously...) but they still need to be there in case of resuscitation etc. and why would we risk it? OMFG they're not going to be in the next TOWN- just the next room!!! Enter more patronising lectures on how we "really want" (Oh really, because I'm saying "no we don't" several times over and being pointedly ignored!) someone experienced right there at my crotch. Thank you emergency childbirth- AN 8 YEAR OLD CAN CATCH A BABY for chrissakes!
Yeah, so everything we say pretty much gets shot down. "Why would you want to risk it?" etc. Very un-friendly as far as child protection issues go... Total red flags IMO (This hurts my heart so much. We've had CPS issues with my boys and this is my absolute worst nightmare and they KNOW this and it's being used as a scare tactic.
)So, onto...
What are the indications for transfer?
Breech- They WILL NOT do any sort of breech and it means an automatic transfer to the hospital where I will "have" to have a c-section unless there's time for me to be flown somewhere else where the OB is comfortable with doing breech deliveries. Note that I would REFUSE said transfer as I refuse to be isolated from my community and MY KIDS for a veriation of normal that I could check myself out of the hospital if they won't honor my waiver (Every time I've brought up waivers I've been shot down and I doubt that my wishes would be honored even if I do waive.) and UC the breech at home. (This was what originally led us to looking into UC because we SO DID NOT agree!) When I mention that I would waive if I were in active labor and attempt breech at the hospital I was literally told that I shouldn't do anything that would make the OB "uncomfortable" (SO I'm supposed to have major abdominal surgery and increas the risk to MY LIFE because the Dr. is "uncomfortable"???) and that the hospital has very strict policies and none of the OB's will do it. Again, said I was willing to waiver, and told that I "don't want to do that.", "it would look bad on you" etc.
: ANY meconium- No matter how light the staining. Enter horror story as to why I should go to the hospital and how baby will have to be taken away after delivery and monitored. (!!!) They don't want to risk intubating at home, yadda yadda. (I have my own opinions on vigorous suctioning and intubation and the increased risk of infection because of it.) Yes I agree that there is slight additional risk and I would likely agree to transfer if it was thick or particularily dark fluids etc., but I don't believe that with being 5 mins away from the hospital that light meconium is enough of a reason to go OB automatically and start intervening.
Most of the usual stuff I was FINE with, (Too much bleeding etc.) but the expectations for delivery of placenta and the labor taking too long were ridiculous IMO. Not to mention that I have to get out of the pool to birth the placenta becasue of the "theoretical" risk of water embolism (Which I personally think is crap!)
The thing is, we've been asking all of these questions all along but we've never seen the same midwife twice in a row and never had a striaght answer. When we said we had these questions to ask we were told that they're left for the home visit, which will be happening next week. I've had a lot of threatened labor and I said that I think the baby might be COMING next week or so so I wanted to do this NOW. Thank goodness I did! I'm so thankful to have read up on UC and toyed with it before now because I can't imagine what I'd have been left with if these issues were only brought up at 37 weeks. According to their protocols from the lovely governing body this is all supposed to be dealt with BY 36 WEEKS! (Not to mention my "just in case" pre-admission to the hospital.) The way this practice goes I'll likely have a baby before I get my group B strep done or any of this sorted out. (Which was forgotten.)
The one thing I hate is that our wishes are being COMPLETELY ignored. I understand that they have guidelines they have to obey and that's why we offered to waive, waive, waive to make anyone more comfortable, but they failed to inform me that the "recommendations" are all "musts" and informed consent/choice means "Do what I say or else."
I was fully intending to say "buh-bye" if this Q&A period didn't work out but I was so floored by the possible child protection ramifications that were hinted at. We've been "secretly" intending to UC (We'd be fired as clients and blacklisted if we mentioned it- that much is crystal clear. We thought it would be nice to have the backup if needed even if they never knew they were backup as they'd never know we'd intended to UC if I ended up needing them and we'd tell them after the fact when the baby was born healthy.) but I think I might be coming out of the closet on this one. I want to, but I just don't know if that's safe! It's certainly our only option if we want any semblance of the birth we want or if we want any of our COMPLETELY REASONABLE wishes to be respected.
We're still debating on how/if to fire them because I really don't like what the potential response may be and I have other children to think of as well. I REALLY wish this wasn't left until the last minute. UGH!
Never have I felt so negated as a client/patient. The complete lack of respect when we offer to waive and the thinly veiled disgust at our "risky" attitudes towards our child and the open dismissal of MY WISHES for MY BIRTH have just completely FLOORED me.
Ugh
s to you, mama. Sounds like a really tough place to be in.
