the consequence

[LdyBluNH@aol]

i was a "breaking point" spanker. i spanked my daughter when she pushed me past the breaking point.

i have since worked very hard to change that.

my dd is now 4 and 1/2 yrs old and she knows she doesn't like being spanked and verbalizes it

she will now ask what the consequence of something is. i ask her to do x and she'll say "if i don't you'll spank me?"

well no - i'm not spanking; so what will happen?

if its something like pick up your toy or it gets broken; that doesn't seem to bother her. maybe its not immediate enough? i don't know

but i also don't know what to say the consequence is. most of them (consequences) don't seem significant enough to motivate her to action.

[LunaMom]

Rather than motivate your daughter through negative consequences, why not try positive results: "As soon as your toys are put away, we can read some new stories together." This will probably be a lot more effective. I try really hard to connect some sort of positive event with the completion of a task - not a reward, just sort of a connection to something that would happen anyway. It does work well in our house. This also teaches her that there are more reasons to behave and listen than simply to avoid punishment.

Another thing that works beautifully in my house is using the word "surprise." "Can you surprise me by how quickly you can get into your pajamas?" turns what could have been a twenty-minute ordeal, with me hovering and nagging, into a five-minute game - she runs to her room and reappears in the doorway five minutes later and says, "Tah-dah!!! Look Mommy, I got into my pajamas SO FAST!!!" Mission accomplished and we both feel good about it!

[LoveBeads]

Well now, what can I possibly contribute when LunaMom has answered so wonderfully? ITA with everything she said!

[Alexander]

RACE.

I'll race you.

See who can pick up the most.

This is your box, this is mine. Who can fill theirs first?

a

[Dar]

I like the idea people have suggested - we've done some of the same things. I also think it's important to get away having an adversarial relationship with your children, where you try to get them to do things and they try to avoid doing. There are good, honest reasons why toys should be put away - they might be broken, they make the house look messy and that makes me stressed, people might trip over them. OTOH, those may not convine your child to jump up and put the toy away. I try to stick with stuff like, "In our family, we all work together to take care of people and things", and other phrases that emphasize working together as a family.

If your daughter doesn't have the freedom to say "No, I won't pick up the toy" without being punished for it, she also doesn't have the freedom to voluntarily pick it up, to help out and feel good about doing it because she's an important member of the family, not because she'll be punished otherwise. It takes longer that way, especially if it's a change, but I think having the goal of having children feel ownership and pride in their home and their place in the family is more important in the long term.

Dar

[Alexander]

Good points all Dar.

I'd like to add that we have a space that the kids can keep messy. We tidy up every-now-and-then. Any of their junk that gets in the family space just gets moved with the broom. Sometimes I have to say "Hold it partner! you are taking a toy out of the toy-room! And that is not allowed for the moment. I want to keep the rest of this place clear."

a

[alexa07]

You can't make a child do anything they don't want to. But that does not mean you can't tell a child what you expect.

In our family we might say that its time to clean up and if it goes unheeded, I will say "I expect you to pick up your toys." If it still does not get done. I will pick them up myself and then say "I asked you to pick up your toys. You know that this is your job in our family and I do not like that I had to do it!"

So, the only consequence is that mom is not happy with them (I don't yell or act mad, just a little anoyed when I say it.) This really works for us. Children really don't want you unhappy with them.

I believe that this is much better than making everything a game or something like that. I think that they way the world works is that we have some things that are not so fun that we have to do.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by alexa07
In our family we might say that its time to clean up and if it goes unheeded, I will say "I expect you to pick up your toys." If it still does not get done. I will pick them up myself and then say "I asked you to pick up your toys. You know that this is your job in our family and I do not like that I had to do it!"

Careful alexa07. I often see children learning to go deaf when parents "tell" their children overly often.

Rather than children learning what their parents want them to remember, they learn when and how to behave to effectivly ignore.

a

[alexa07]

[
Rather than children learning what their parents want them to remember, they learn when and how to behave to effectivly ignore.

a [/B][/QUOTE]

Alexander,

What exactly do you mean? This has absolutely not been the case with my kids. It is how I was raised and was never a problem for me!

[Alexander]

When children get to hear what they "should" and "shouldn't" do, manytimes without followup (as in your case only verbal followup), children simply become attuned to the parents entreaties.

In bad cases, the parents whine, moan and complain to the children. What better way to train a child to ignore you? I have seen this countless times, and had many a discussion with Japanese parents who are plagued by a particularly bad national custom of "distance parenting".

Hope you see what I'm getting at.

a

[alexa07]

Alexander

No. I still am not sure what you mean. There is no "whining" or complaiing involved. I simply state what should be done and my kids know that I will not be happy if it does not get done. That is all that is required in my family for my kids to comply what I consider a satisfactory amount (that is to say most of the time, prob. 90%.) No other follow up is required. That is how my parents treated me and I have always felt it was a great way to parents as do my siblings.

I think too many people feel that those times when their kids don't comply they have done "something wrong" and they complain or whine. Me, I just move on.

[Dot.mom]

One thing that works well in our house is anthropomorphizing her toys. I talk about how her toys want to be back on their"beds" for the night, or up on their shelves when company comes so everyone can see them. Sometimes I put on a little act, using different voices for the cars and the blocks, etc. I have even overheard dd re-enacting these little skits when she is playing by herself and she'll put a few toys away on her own.

Before I get flamed, no this doesn't really directly address any issues of responsibility, contributing to the household, or complying with expectations or any other higher morals for tidiness that I hope she will someday learn. But it works for us, for now. So we'll use it until it is no longer effective.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by Dot.mom
I talk about how her toys want to be back on their"beds" for the night, or up on their shelves when company comes so everyone can see them. Sometimes I put on a little act, using different voices for the cars and the blocks, etc. I have even overheard dd re-enacting these little skits when she is playing by herself and she'll put a few toys away on her own.

Totaly brilliant! This is exactly how children learn to relate to others, andget into the rythmn of a hosehold. Well done.

Originally posted by Dot.mom

Before I get flamed, no this doesn't really directly address any issues of responsibility, contributing to the household, or complying with expectations or any other higher morals for tidiness that I hope she will someday learn

Why on earth would you get flamed?????

For a child to feel genuinely responsible for something, they themselves have to decide to take on the job.

True responsibility is not something you can ever satisfacturaly place on anothers shoulders without alot of strain somewhere.

a

[Alexander]

Originally posted by alexa07
Alexander

No. I still am not sure what you mean. There is no "whining" or complaiing involved.

Take it from me then, you're doing an exceptional job.

Moaning is a way of life for many parents.

a

[alexa07]

Take it from me then, you're doing an exceptional job.

Moaning is a way of life for many parents.

a

I think I do not moan because I do not expect perfection from my kids. I tell them what I think they should do and I tell them that I am unhappy if they don't do it. But, I think unlike some people, I don't think "What is wrong with them that they don't always do what I say."

I tell my kids "I wanted a child, not a robot" sometimes when they feel bad later about not doing something they were supposed to. This makes them laugh. Yes, I'd like my kids to always do what is right, but that is not what I expect. No human is perfect. No reason to moan about it.

[glad2bhome]

Boy, am I glad you guys talked about his tonight! I was just gonna put out a thread about my kids not wanting to clean up. Heck, my 2 year-old is better at it than my 4 year-old !! I have tried the "time-out" approach for not cleaning up. Doesn't work. Only makes them resent it more. I now have some tools to work with. (And I thought I was all set for having kids when I was a preschool teacher!! Totally different dynamic when you have a classroom full of kids the same age versus your OWN two kids that are different ages.)

Thanks!

~Melissa