Oh My G*D! 16yo boy asks my 3.5yo ds to - UPDATE in post 129 - Page 5

[rosie_plus_one]

I read through this, and I think the part that alarmed me the most actually was that the DCP - L - felt a need to even explain to her 16 year old son that he shouldn't kiss babies on the mouth?!?! And said that it was because he had germs?

Is the 16 yo developmentally disabled? I would think that by that age, his adopted mother should no longer be concerned about him kissing other MUCH younger children on the mouth. He should have realized that it's not acceptable behavior on a level that goes much deeper than the germs in your mouth.

He honestly sounds like a very odd young man, not someone I would feel comfortable aiding in the care of my child, and based on the two incidents you've had with him crossing the line into unacceptable behavior, I would file a report with DSHS, or whoever takes care of in-home child care providers.

As the mother of a very very young man, I would be shocked if another parent at my day-care had had this happen to her son and not reported it or informed the other parents.

[oyemicanto]

Originally Posted by ~MoonGypsy~

IMO I think it's horrid that so many of you are willing to ruin a family by insisting that she report the DCP. CPS tears apart families regardless of the outcome.


Steph you know you DS better than any of us do, and only you and your DH can determine whether DS is portraying the situation correctly or is skewing things as any 3.5yo normally does. You are doing what's best for your family by removing your children from the situation. My only suggestion is to see if DCP and 16yo are willing to try some counseling as it appears that 16yo is willing to prove that everything is okay.

How in the world would a 3 year old come up with the idea of someone sticking their tongue in his mouth unless the idea was presented to him first???????

[Mizelenius]

16yo told me I had to stick my tongue in his mouth if I wanted to go downstairs to play.

Honestly, this is the part that gets me. My DD has an incredible imagination, but she could NOT make this up. The idea that they were discussing germs and all that has no relevance to this statement-- this kind of statement sounds exactly like what a predator would say.

My opinion is to call as you would call a doctor . . .you call the nurse triage when you aren't sure if you should come, and they assess the situation. Call the pros and let THEM make the decision.

Wouldn't you hope, that if someone else were going through this, that they would do it for YOUR son? How about the other children in the daycare? You know your sons are protected-- what about the others? I think being a preying on children is one of the absolute worst atrocities in this world; it is our ultimate job to protect ALL children. Please reconsider.

[ChristyM26]

I think in every state, teachers are mandated reporters (I could be wrong though, so please don't yell at me if I'm wrong). However, you could look at it this way - If your DS had told your family doctor or a teacher (if he has one) you can guarantee that they would call CPS. CPS will investigate the incident and file a report. It's quite likely you'll never hear about it - I've filed a few reports and never heard back about the outcome.

In fact it's quite likely that the only people who will know are the family and if they don't tell anybody nobody will ever know they were investigated. It's not like CPS is going to make an announcement on the local news (unless they decide there's some validity to the report and the kid is arrested). It is always a better idea to err on the side of caution, regardless of how difficult it is.

[AngelBee]

I support in you in whatever decision you go with. You know your son and this family. You will know the right thing to do.

: for everyone involved

[peilover010202]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

I didn't see this. If your husband works for a school, he's probably a mandatory reporter. What are the implications for him if he doesn't report?

And upon second thought too - just what did you expect the 16 yo to say to his mom when she asked him? "Gee mom, I did ask a 3.5 yo to put his tongue in my mouth?" Of COURSE he's going to deny it.

I don't know the answer to that question. He probably is REQUIRED to report. I'll have him follow up with the Prinicipal.

[peilover010202]

Originally Posted by rosie_plus_one

I read through this, and I think the part that alarmed me the most actually was that the DCP - L - felt a need to even explain to her 16 year old son that he shouldn't kiss babies on the mouth?!?! And said that it was because he had germs?

.

Umm, I must not have been very clear. L was explaining to the young children in her care (not her son, though he was present during the conversation.) Some of the young children were kissing the mouths of babes - not L's son.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by peilover010202

Umm, I must not have been very clear. L was explaining to the young children in her care (not her son, though he was present during the conversation.) Some of the young children were kissing the mouths of babes - not L's son.

That is what I got from what you read. DC kids were kissing babies not the 16 yr old.

[Terabith]

Man, this is such a terrible situation for you! I really do understand how conflicted you must be feeling. You love this day care provider; she does a great job; you respect her; you dont want to harm her or her business; the idea of falsely reporting child abuse is horrifying and terrifying. I totally get that. How awful it would be for the poor boy and his mom if he truly is innocent and was accused! I would be loathe to report anyone I knew to CPS unless it was really blatant and clear cut. However, I have to say, I agree that what is suspicious to me is the statement, "You have to stick your tongue in my mouth if you want to go downstairs." That kind of conditional bribery thing, coupled with it being the second instance, makes me think I would err on the horrifying idea of calling CPS. The puppy dog kisses comment might have been a three year old's imagination, but this form of description and with the condition........Im sorry you are going through this!

[SharonAnne]

Yeah, my grandfather denied molesting me too.

ALWAYS believe your child. Do what is necessary to protect him. And do what you can to ensure the behavior doesn't continue with other children.

[JElaineB]

Originally Posted by Mizelenius

Honestly, this is the part that gets me. My DD has an incredible imagination, but she could NOT make this up. The idea that they were discussing germs and all that has no relevance to this statement-- this kind of statement sounds exactly like what a predator would say.

My opinion is to call as you would call a doctor . . .you call the nurse triage when you aren't sure if you should come, and they assess the situation. Call the pros and let THEM make the decision.

Wouldn't you hope, that if someone else were going through this, that they would do it for YOUR son? How about the other children in the daycare? You know your sons are protected-- what about the others? I think being a preying on children is one of the absolute worst atrocities in this world; it is our ultimate job to protect ALL children. Please reconsider.

:

I am sure this is very hard for you, but please go back and reread your first post. Your son has told you TWICE that this 16 yo has licked/kissed him and TWICE the 16 yo and DCP have denied it and come up with other excuses. I know your son is never going back, but please think of the other children this 16 yo might come in contact with. I do hope your DH is a mandatory reporter, because then it is essentially "out of your hands". Reporting won't necessarily lead to anything, but at least if something happens again there will be a report on file.

[FreeRangeMama]

This whole situation is off. The way it has been handled by the DCP is suspicious, why did she immediately talk to the 16 yo? Have they been through this before with other families (who didn't report)?

Why would she offer to have him meet with you (who are presumably the angry/suspicious parents)? If it were me I would want to protect my child if I believed him to be innocent. Then you actually talked to the 16 yo and he offered to take a lie detector test? Not typical behaviour for someone who ISN'T lying. And how convenient that she remembered the germ conversation AFTER you talked to her...... It all just feels off to me, and it must to you as well if you aren't sending your boys back

Good luck with whatever you decide, doing the right thing is hard sometimes.

[neetling]

I'd err on the side of caution and report. My kids would nver go there again and there would be a report on file in case it's true. I can't imagine my almost 4 year old making something like that up. The puppy kisses maybe as she tries to lick me on occasion, playing doggy, but not the sticking the tongue in the mouth to be allowed to play part. That screams pedophile to me.

[peilover010202]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

This whole situation is off. The way it has been handled by the DCP is suspicious, why did she immediately talk to the 16 yo? Have they been through this before with other families (who didn't report)?

Why would she offer to have him meet with you (who are presumably the angry/suspicious parents)? If it were me I would want to protect my child if I believed him to be innocent. Then you actually talked to the 16 yo and he offered to take a lie detector test? Not typical behaviour for someone who ISN'T lying. And how convenient that she remembered the germ conversation AFTER you talked to her...... It all just feels off to me, and it must to you as well if you aren't sending your boys back

Good luck with whatever you decide, doing the right thing is hard sometimes.

I asked her to speak with 16yo and she offered for us to meet with him (which I later declined). I don't know why she offered that. She really was stumbling with words and so was I.

16yo offered to take the lie detector test to his mom (not to us, though she offered for us to be present if we so choose). I again declined.

There really isn't much more to say here. Sure, I doubt reporting or not reporting. More than anything, I don't want to let a child continue this if it is true AND I also don't want to ruin this family or the mom's livelihood if it's not true.

Honestly, it's so easy to assume what you (collectively, you) would do in this situation (I would be saying the same thing), but when you KNOW the family and have for YEARS, emotion gets in the way of hard facts. i will continue to reflect on this and I will ask dh to find out about mandatory reporting.

[HoosierDiaperinMama]

You've mentioned the book, "Protecting the Gift" several times in this thread and I keep going back to the thought that you're letting what you read in that book (someone else's opinions and advice) dictate, at least in part, what you do in this situation. Why not listen to your gut? What are your instincts telling you? Forget the book for a minute and listen to what your child has told you (and I don't believe he would make that up) and what your heart is telling you.

I haven't been in this situation so I can't say without a doubt that I would do "xyz," but if I thought my DS had been abused or "groomed" for abuse you'd better believe I'd report the offender. The alternative for me would weigh too much on my mind knowing that I had not listened to my instincts, my own son, and possibly let a future predator go on to hurt others.

[crazy_eights]

Originally Posted by ~MoonGypsy~

IMO I think it's horrid that so many of you are willing to ruin a family by insisting that she report the DCP. CPS tears apart families regardless of the outcome.

In the case of DCP, this is definately not true. Most cases wind up as 'complaints on flie' only. The vast majority.

[ledzepplon]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

I support in you in whatever decision you go with.

Well I don't. You have a moral responsibility to protect others. If you believe your son enough to pull him out of this situation, then you ought not leave other kids in harm's way.

[wombat]

I don't think CPS could do anything to this boy. You have the word of a 3 year old. That won't hold up in court. You have no physical evidence. You have a 16 yo that will deny it. That's just how the court system works. The most CPS could do is make a report for their files. Or talk to the kids dr. or school, that'd perhaps turn something else up. But involving the authorities will at least reinforce the seriousness of it all. To both the boy and to his mother who is charged with protecting those little kids in her care.

If it's not reported and this boy is heading towards being a pedophile then he's just learnt he (or his mother) can talk their way out of it. Next time he'll be more careful.

[Dreaming]

You are going to do whatever you want.
However, I think it speaks VOLUMES that you are pulling your children out of that daycare and that your DH told the 16 year old to find a different school.
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
If you truly believed that the 16 year old was innocent, you wouldn't be taking the actions you are taking.

[Maple Leaf Mama]

I have not read all the responses, so forgive me if this has already been pointed out.
"L" said that her sons, while with the boys, were never alone with them. EVER.
Well, they MUST have been alone at some point, becasue hopefully she wouldn't have allowed her son to
A) stick his tongue in your DS's mouth or lick him
And
B): say you can't go downstairs until you do XYZ. If she were there, she would have seen/heard this exchange.
And if by "alone" she means there were other kids present, then that is not quite accurate. By being alone without other adults present and being alone with other babies present--it's NOT the same thing and she should see the difference.

And I would be freaked out that ANYONE would have to speak to a freaking
*16* about not french kissing a baby. WTF??? Is the 16 year old mentally handicapped? Because that is the ONLY reason for not knowing such behavior is sooo very wrong.

That woman needs to be reported. I wouldn't care HOW great she is. She shouldn't be caring for vulnerable children with a 16 year old who was confronted once and went further the second time.
Gee, what next?? OK, so licking and french kissing is wrong. But what about a little touch here and there?? It's *ALL* wrong. They shouldn't need to be told that.
Holy crap!