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Scaremongering, coercion and outright lies...What did they say to you? - Page 2

post #21 of 82
1/29/07 at 2:09pm
I guess I am really lucky in that I never got anything negative about my vbac. The first nurse I had the hospital had had two vbacs herself with one of them using the ob I used. He asked me at my 14 week appointment (first time he noticed I'd had a c-section) if I'd decided how I wanted to have my baby and said "OK" when I said vbac.
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post #22 of 82
1/29/07 at 6:01pm
With ds#1 I was in labor for 30 hours (22 of which was natural) and the doc told me well we can wait a few more days or we can just do a csection. Those were his exact words - I was so exhausted as I had not slept at all and asked him if he thought I would be able to deliver (I was only a 7) and he said that the baby's head wasn't dropping and he didn't think it was going to and the best option was a csection so we took it.
First apt with ds#2 he said "well you had a csection with your last child so we know how you will be delivering this one!" - I was totally clueless about a VBAC and it was only 8 months after delivering ds#1 so I just went with it.
With ds#3 I had a new doctor and learned about VBAC's at around 35.5 weeks and at my next apt (36weeks) I asked and they said they don't recommend it after 2 sections so I didn't really have time to research as I went into labor 10 days later.
I believe I'm preggo with #4 and I am going to try my darndest for a VBA3C. I already called and asked for my doc to call me (I don't want to go in if they are going to say no) and have a call into a OBGYN/CNM practice not to far from me to see if they accept them. I've already called the hospital and they have told me they allow them so they can't play that card!
post #23 of 82
1/29/07 at 8:10pm
Thread Starter 
When I bumped this I knew there had to be more scaremongering stories out there. Thank you all for sharing. I am sad that there are so many of us with these tales. By sharing them, it will all be here when someone comes here for VBAC information. They will see that they are not crazy for thinking their care provider is lying to them. They will see that other women have been where they are and hopefully they can learn from us.

post #24 of 82
1/29/07 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanetF View Post
Hiring a surgeon is almost a guarantee you'll get some version of this crap thrown at you. They don't want you to have a vaginal birth, it might make them look silly if one of their peers told you it couldn't be done. Makes me angry angry angry and sick sick sick. Women and babies are dying because of this issue.
this is not necessarily true. my ob is a wonderful man who fully supported my decision to have a vbac. he knows the numbers and explained the risks and benefits to me - and they coincided with what my own research told me. i don't think it is fair or beneficial to try to say that all obs are just surgeons wanting to do surgery and that they will all coerce you to have a c-section - that's just not true!

that being said, i have chosen to change to a midwife practice. i did this because my awesome ob is part of a large practice (who comes to find out - are all supportive of vbacs). but, i wanted to give myself the best odds and not having met the other doctors i couldn't be sure. but i did find out that my ob (and some of the other doctors in the practice) are the doctors on call for my midwife. that's pretty awesome.
post #25 of 82
1/29/07 at 9:48pm
I didn't say all surgeons, actually, and yet what I said is absolutely an accurate reflection of the vast majority which is crystal clear on reading the posts in this section. That you have a surgeon with whom you're satisfied has no bearing whatsoever on the reality that surgeons exist to do surgery and therefore have no place in a spontaneous, physiological birth or offering care to healthy pregnant women. The first indication that a surgeon is not providing evidence based care is that they take on healthy women as clients - they are solely trained in rare complications. You might want to consider that. The surgeon who refuses to care for a woman who doesn't need their skillset is rare indeed while midwives will support a woman's need for a surgeon's skillset in the rare event that it's required. Interesting that you removed yourself to more appropriate care rather than your surgeon suggesting it, don't you think?
post #26 of 82
1/29/07 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaS View Post
When I bumped this I knew there had to be more scaremongering stories out there. Thank you all for sharing. I am sad that there are so many of us with these tales. By sharing them, it will all be here when someone comes here for VBAC information. They will see that they are not crazy for thinking their care provider is lying to them. They will see that other women have been where they are and hopefully they can learn from us.
I wish this were so but it's obviously not when you read the VBAC section here. It's very little different from mainstream forums.

It's really simple. Don't hire a surgeon if you don't want surgery. Don't hire a plumber if you want your car fixed, don't hire a pastry chef for a Teppanyaki banquet. Hire someone who specialises in what you want. If you want a spontaneous physiological birth hire an expert - a midwife.
post #27 of 82
1/29/07 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
I will butcher this quote and I can't remember who said it, but here goes:

"Hiring an OB for pregnancy and birth is like hiring a pediatrician to babysit."

The fact is OBs are surgeons. Some are just more caring than others. I had one of those caring OBs for my first VBAC, but I still did not want the medical model of care for my third baby, so I chose HBAC.
post #28 of 82
1/29/07 at 10:21pm
But keep in mind that just because you don't have an OB it doesn't automatically follow that you wont have a c/s. I didn't have an OB the first time round, and still had a c/s. And as a result I had never met the doctor who did the surgery, he didn't know my preferences, he had no experience with me, and as a result...well...it was even les ideal than an emergency c/s is by definition.

I DO have an OB this time (as a VBAC mama I'm too high risk for local mw and family practice docs) and she's wonderful...very very VBAC supportive. But the specialist I saw, also an OB, had plenty of incorrect info about VBAC. Just plain old outright WRONG info. Presented with a generous scoop of "dead baby speech" on top and his "VBAC should be illegal" approach.

So while not having a surgeon is a good place to start in terms of avoiding surgery, it's not a sure thing!
post #29 of 82
1/29/07 at 11:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post

So while not having a surgeon is a good place to start in terms of avoiding surgery, it's not a sure thing!
This is true. Some midwives are OBs in sheeps clothing and some OBs are masquerading as midwives. But overall, midwives have a lower c/s rate. Significantly lower. There is always the risk of c/s with birth. Sometimes it is necessary, even when you've chosen the care provider with the least risk of c/s.

I had a GREAT OB for my VBAC. He was still terrified of UR because of the TWO he had seen personally. My midwife, on the other hand, for my HBAC five months ago did not treat me like a ticking time bomb. She treated me like a woman about to give birth. It may seem minor, but it was a huge difference in the peace I felt planning the birth. In how I approached the birth. I was constantly worried that I would have to fight my way to a VBAC. Worried that my well-laid plans would crumble. It's truly amazing the difference in care from someone who is scared of what can go wrong with birth and someone who trusts that birth is a normal process. It doesn't make my OB for my VBAC any less caring or trustworthy, because he was those things. He was still part of the medical model.
post #30 of 82
1/30/07 at 12:40am
I guess I'm outside the norm, because my high-risk perinatologist guided me through a successful VBAC with my last pregnancy. He laid out the risks for me either way and told me that in the ongoing research study that he actually was co-author on, the comparative risk of uterine rupture in VBAC was higher than that of repeat elective C-section, but the overall risk was still extremely low, and therefore if I wanted to attempt VBAC, he supported me in that. And he did, and I had a great VBAC, even though I had a *gasp* OB.

Quotes like this are very depressing to me:

Quote:
If you want a spontaneous physiological birth hire an expert - a midwife.
Yeah, that would be great, except that as an insulin-using diabetic, no midwife would take me, and believe me, before trying to conceive my second baby, I think I called just about every midwife in the Seattle area. (We have since moved from there.) Sorry, too high-risk, I was told over and over again. So is the message for someone like me, "Sorry, you are stuck with a knife-wielding surgeon who is bound and determined to slice you open no matter what your wishes?" Because I think that's a depressing and not really particularly helpful message. Something that might be more helpful is, "While a midwife would be ideal, there are OBs out there who will be supportive of your chosen birth experience, and it is worth your time to search one out and find one if a midwife is a not an option for whatever reason."

I know that with my particular health issues I'm in the minority here, and that most women don't face the issue of being risked out of a midwife birth. But for those of us who do, or for those of us who feel the need to use an OB for whatever reason, I think it's important to remember that there ARE good OBs out there, and you don't have to be stuck with some jerk who won't respect your birth wishes just because you are going with an OB.
post #31 of 82
1/30/07 at 1:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanB View Post
"While a midwife would be ideal, there are OBs out there who will be supportive of your chosen birth experience, and it is worth your time to search one out and find one if a midwife is a not an option for whatever reason."
:

And it can take alot of searching and maybe a little more driving then desired but it's worth it (so far anyway, pookie2 isn't here yet) Just to be so much more calmer during this pregnancy is a blessing.
post #32 of 82
1/30/07 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Megan~ View Post
When I was told I "needed" to have a c-section for my first child the OB told me that I would be able to have a natural birth next time. And then afterward told me that VBACs were dangerous and I should have a c-section next time.
I was told the exact same thing, cried my eyes out, told dh i didn't want anymore kids (i took doc's words as gold, didn't know any different at the time) and 2 months later......Surprise!!!!
post #33 of 82
1/30/07 at 3:27pm
Well, my friend who is also wanting a VBAC just got scared by her perinatologist (similar to Wombat's situation). She went in for an ultrasound and, while they were sitting there (with her mom & husband in the room), she told him she wanted to VBAC and asked what he thought about it (now, that's the difference b/w me and her -- I never would have asked, because I already know all of the relevant studies better than the drs. themselves do). Anyway, he said, "I don't know why anyone would want to risk leaving the hospital without a baby." He said it that plainly. Now her husband and mom are totally freaked out by the idea of VBAC, and my friend is leaning towards a rcs. When she told me about this, I responded, "Well, what about the babies who leave the hospital without their moms after a rcs gone wrong?" Honestly, the drs. seem to think that all that's important is the risk to the baby from VBAC -- what about the risk to the mom from rcs?
post #34 of 82
1/30/07 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MomtoAsh30 View Post
Honestly, the drs. seem to think that all that's important is the risk to the baby from VBAC -- what about the risk to the mom from rcs?
And now research is starting to show the life threatening dangers of c/s to mother AND baby.
post #35 of 82
1/30/07 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyOne View Post
this is not necessarily true. my ob is a wonderful man who fully supported my decision to have a vbac. he knows the numbers and explained the risks and benefits to me - and they coincided with what my own research told me. i don't think it is fair or beneficial to try to say that all obs are just surgeons wanting to do surgery and that they will all coerce you to have a c-section - that's just not true!
Are all OBs that way? Not necessarily, but as a general rule this is certainly very descriptive of OBs. It's a rare and wonderful exception to the rule to find an OB/traditional medical provider who actually has faith in the body's ability to do what it was designed to do. If you want proof, all you have to do is look at their mouthpiece's website (www.acog.org).

For everyone here (and actually anyone I run across) I highly suggest Marsden Wagner's new book "Born in the USA" for a look into *why* exactly this is true.

As for scaremongering on my part. Primary c/s and all the standard HUGE baby = dead baby crap. FWIW, my son wasn't anywhere near as big as they thought he was and even at 9lbs wasn't all *that* big. I doubt that he was actually 9lbs given all the fluids they put on board, but we'll never know.
post #36 of 82
1/30/07 at 8:04pm
Choosing a CP isn't about a guarantee of a vaginal birth. Birth is an odds game and choosing a CP is about giving you and your baby the best possible odds of an evidence based birth. If you're healthy, obviously you don't need a surgeon
post #37 of 82
1/31/07 at 3:36pm
My second birth was supposed to be a HBAC, but my midwife encouraged transfer after 2.5 days of labor ( I had stalled at transition, I'd been 8 cm for 5 hours and my contractions were slowing and my cervix was closing back up). I was treated horribly at the hospital. The nurses were mean to me and the doctor was a complete jerk. He kept saying "I don't know what made you think you could do this! You'd better go to a hospital next time, don't you try this again!" I smiled and nodded and told them I'd be a good girl next time, but of course I have no intention of listening to them. Next baby will be born at home.
post #38 of 82
1/31/07 at 3:57pm
When I told my family I was pregnant after a previous c-section my aunt who is an OBGYN nurse told me "You will have a c-section. When I told her I was not. She told me about the horrors of seeing 2 uterine ruptures. She neglected to mention the outcome of the baby and mom : Plus after 29 yrs of practice I think that is awesome odds for mom and baby! Then after the birth of my perfectly healthy 9lb 6oz baby girl in 1 hour at home she said,"That midwife should be arrested and have her licensed removed!" I wonder how her head would have spun if she had known that the midwife was not a CNM!
post #39 of 82
2/1/07 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
:
It's like the majority of OBs keep insisting the world is flat when it is, in fact, round.

:
post #40 of 82
2/1/07 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama8 View Post
When I told my family I was pregnant after a previous c-section my aunt who is an OBGYN nurse told me "You will have a c-section. When I told her I was not. She told me about the horrors of seeing 2 uterine ruptures. She neglected to mention the outcome of the baby and mom :
I wish these people would get it through their heads that it doesn't all end when you check out of the feraking hospital. They think the 3 days of post-ppartum that they see tell the whole story, and that makes them the experts. Maybe they have nightmares about the things they've seen - like your aunt and the ruptures. But, they don't see me waking up with nightmares from what happened to me...norr do they care.
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