More Teen Computer Woes

[Turkish Kate]

DH bought my 13-year-old DD a desktop computer for New Year's. This is something that he has wanted to do for a while and they had been discussing it together. I was initially against the idea of her having a desktop in her room because I know quite well how it isolates and takes away from family time. I did set some ground rules, fairly lenient, and common sense (I think). One of the rules was no "My Space" account. She tried that a few months ago when she was using my computer and had it rejected because she doesn't meet the age requirement (14 is the min age for My Space). I don't like My Space for many reasons, not the least of which is predators. I also insisted that all of her contacts on Messenger be people that we know--friends from school, family, etc. She was also told that if her chores and/or grades started slipping, she would lose internet access and then perhaps the entire computer (and be back to the little Fujitso laptop that I used 100 years ago with no internet connection).

Last night, I asked to use her computer to check my email real quick since we were all upstairs and I didn't want to go downstairs and wait to power up my computer. Well, I am very disappointed. She has created an alternate hotmail address with a "fake" identity and used it to create another My Space page, this time with a fake name, lists her age as 16, and her purpose for "dating." She has her IRL friends pages linked as well as a boy(?) that none of us knows IRL. She says that she and one of her friends created this page at the friend's house during a sleepover, and the timeline seems to bear that out. I am not necessarily worried about the content of what's on her page, there's nothing really objectionable except for the comments that other people have left.

I have concerns about this on many levels. The blatant disregard for the agreed upon rules for starters. I don't feel that the rules I put down were too strict, what do others think? The alternate identity worries me as well. She is lying about her age (as are her friends) which makes me wonder what else she may be lying about. I already have her Messenger set up to save all conversations so that I can monitor her conversations with her friends. Her chores have started to slip a bit, but I chalk that up to "new toy syndrome" and have just been reminding her more often than usual. Am I being too overprotective?

On a separate side note, several of her friends have My Space pages where they claim to be older than they are, as well as a couple of things that I find objectionable--profanity, etc. I am certain that their parents don't know. Should I stay out of it or bring it up to the other parents?

[Ruthla]

I wouldn't bring it up to the other parents, not if the only thing going on is profanity. I know that profanity wouldn't bother me in the slightest, and other parents may feel the same way.

I would certainly insist on her deleting the "myspace" account as well as the email that goes with it. I'd let her know that this is a warning- if she proves herself irresponsible with the computer you'll start limiting her internet access.

Before completely taking away internet access, I'd set limit what websites she can visit. There's a way to do this with Internet Explorer under "internet options", and you set up a password that she doesn't have access to for adjusting what sites she can visit. You could set it up to exclude specific websites, or you can set it up to exclude everything except the ones you specify. I assume that other browsers have similar features.

[PajamaMama]

Another thing...I would make it clear to her that her computer is not 'private' and that you and Dad will retain the right to look at her browser history, and whatever else you feel necessary for her SAFETY, whenever you feel like it, without warning.

That expensive toy is a privilege and she can certainly live without it if she can't respect the rules you've implemented for her SAFETY.

[allycat]

Originally Posted by Turkish Kate

DH bought my 13-year-old DD a desktop computer for New Year's. This is something that he has wanted to do for a while and they had been discussing it together. I was initially against the idea of her having a desktop in her room because I know quite well how it isolates and takes away from family time. I did set some ground rules, fairly lenient, and common sense (I think). One of the rules was no "My Space" account. She tried that a few months ago when she was using my computer and had it rejected because she doesn't meet the age requirement (14 is the min age for My Space). I don't like My Space for many reasons, not the least of which is predators. I also insisted that all of her contacts on Messenger be people that we know--friends from school, family, etc. She was also told that if her chores and/or grades started slipping, she would lose internet access and then perhaps the entire computer (and be back to the little Fujitso laptop that I used 100 years ago with no internet connection).

Last night, I asked to use her computer to check my email real quick since we were all upstairs and I didn't want to go downstairs and wait to power up my computer. Well, I am very disappointed. She has created an alternate hotmail address with a "fake" identity and used it to create another My Space page, this time with a fake name, lists her age as 16, and her purpose for "dating." She has her IRL friends pages linked as well as a boy(?) that none of us knows IRL. She says that she and one of her friends created this page at the friend's house during a sleepover, and the timeline seems to bear that out. I am not necessarily worried about the content of what's on her page, there's nothing really objectionable except for the comments that other people have left.

I have concerns about this on many levels. The blatant disregard for the agreed upon rules for starters. I don't feel that the rules I put down were too strict, what do others think? The alternate identity worries me as well. She is lying about her age (as are her friends) which makes me wonder what else she may be lying about. I already have her Messenger set up to save all conversations so that I can monitor her conversations with her friends. Her chores have started to slip a bit, but I chalk that up to "new toy syndrome" and have just been reminding her more often than usual. Am I being too overprotective?

On a separate side note, several of her friends have My Space pages where they claim to be older than they are, as well as a couple of things that I find objectionable--profanity, etc. I am certain that their parents don't know. Should I stay out of it or bring it up to the other parents?

MSN is like the phone but more on global scale. My Space is tough, as there are more people who could prey on your child. Also children are more open with personal information as they cannot censor what to tell and what to keep private.

I don't think with MySpace you are being overprotective. MSN as long as you know her friends it should be ok.

Do you have the computer in an open area? So that she cannot do things secretly?

I think a punishment should be given for her going against your guidelines. I think she should delete the account or you can do it by contacting those at MySpace. They have Q&A section to let you know how to contact them to delete your child's account.
A.

[guest9921]

Hi, my name is Katherine and I was a teenaged internet addict.

Still recovering, in fact.




I believe if my parents were as dilligent/consistant as you - I would have avoided a lot of 'hardships' and 'trouble.'
[My parents mostly avoided my internet use entirely, until it was convienient to them, and then would crack down - I would get in 'trouble' for things I hadn't been told were 'against the rules' or things that were innocent that my parents refused to see otherwise.]


I met many amazing people, and I was always able to weed out the 'weirdos' - in fact, I met my middle-high school boyfriend (dated him for a few years) over the internet through a friend. I was 13 when I met him (a few months after we started chating), he met my parents when he met me - and we had a holding hands relationship for quite a while.

It all depends on how mature you believe your daughter to be - if you believe she'd be too naive (for lack of better word, excuse me) to intuitively know and understand the intentions of the people around her - I would definitely, Definitely continue to monitor her internet use entirely.

There are many 'net nanny' programs out there. They will give a list of all sites viewed. Also, the site lists will be password protected - as for the internet explorer history - I definitely understood how to delete that once I realized my parents started viewing it.


Music was my reason for using the computer so frequently. This is when napster came out - I downloaded like a crazed woman, and learned So much.
I ultimately graduated high school early and started college at a young age because of all of my internet readings.
Dh was an internet addict as well - but games were his forte.

I met my best friend on an internet music forum.
That was 6-7 years ago. Wait, even longer than that. Wow.

[Kerlowyn]

My DS has a MySpace page. Our rules are:
He must never change his password. I have it, and I can go look on his page when ever I want. I do about once a week. I also go to the pages of his friends and check them out. If I find any objectionable, I will delete them. Has not happened yet. His page is also set to private.

For IMing, I installed Trillion. He thinks it's cool because he can use his MSN and AOL screen names with the same program. I think it's cool because it logs every single IM interaction, and I can read his interactions anytime. He knows this.

We have Firefox as his browser, so he does not get pop ups.

I am the one who loads music on his MP3 player, so I know what music he is listening to (same tastes as me )

He has had a computer in his room for over a year now. I will check his history often. He has been good so far.

[UnschoolnMa]

My Dd and I both have Myspace accounts. I do not regulate hers for her or anything. We did "friend" each other though. She got it when she was 12, but I do think she fibbed and said she was older to get it at that age. Not sure... If someone called and told me that Dd's account said she was older I would say "Oh yea, I know. It's okay really." Many of her friends have pages that say they are older like 16 or 18, but it's clear that they are not if you look around. Also you can make the age part say anything so one girl says that she is 99- LOL!

I've noticed pages on Myspace that were indeed sexual in nature or that didn't reflect people I'd like to know. But in general there haven't been any issues at all with it. My Dd has known about sex for years now, and we can talk about whenever she wants or needs to. Dd talks with her best friend and she's added people along the way. Every now and then she comes across something she thinks is cool/gross/funny/ridiculous/etc and she will have me come check it out. Instead of prohibiting we felt it was better to talk about safety, dishonest people, the dangers involved with giving too much info to strangers, trusting people and what "trust" means on the internet and so on. It's worked well for us. She doesn't have to hide or sneak behind my back to do anything, ever. I don't have to prohibit things. We just work it out together.

You said that you are angry about her breaking the agreed upon rules. Were they really agreed upon or did she have to agree in order to get/use the computer? Regardless, what you do know now is that she really didn't agree with that rule, but she felt like she couldn't tell you that. That's what I'd be focusing on now as you both decide where to go from here.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

Instead of prohibiting we felt it was better to talk about safety, dishonest people, the dangers involved with giving too much info to strangers, trusting people and what "trust" means on the internet and so on.

I completely agree with this statement. My son isn't really out of house at friend's yet (he 11.5), but I know the time is coming. He has had issues with the computer before and rather than completely forbid it, we explained exactly what the problems were with what he was doing.

Your daughter will probably just use friends' computers to do the same thing. She could still create another myspace and just not get notified about anything new on it (my account doesn't notify me of anything). She needs to be taught safety and the dangers involved b/c she will be accessing outside of your home.

[Turkish Kate]

Thanks for all of your thoughtful comments, they are greatly appreciated and helped to solidify things in my own mind. I know that she will just go to a friend's house to make another page, as that is how this one got done--before she even had the computer. That is part of what worries me. I was a very rebellious teen myself (long before the days when Al Gore had created the internet), but I was doing things that were much more dangerous--sneaking out of the house at night, smoking (stuff), drinking, sexually active, etc. My DD, bless her heart, is not computer- or internet-savvy and is very naive in general. Smart, but not emotionally mature. So . . . .

Last night, DH and I had a talk with her about internet safety. I explained that there was a reason My Space restricted accounts to those who are 14 and up and that when she turns 14 we can revisit the issue. She has another page on a less-controversial site through her school, and she is satisfied with that for now (or so she says). Then I told her about the time that I was stalked via the internet (long story, but a bit scary), and about how it's hard to know whom to trust. We talked about strangers, both IRL and online, and how you don't know who the bad guys are (relayed the story of Ted Bundy--I was in FL for that). I also told her about a young lady whom I know personally who did some foolish things because of a young man she "met" online. And another woman who was "kidnapped" and kept in TR to marry a young man so he could get a green card. These are people I really do know IRL, no making it up. Plus, we've had two recent arrests of foreigners (one Canadian and one American) for child porn in Istanbul. So really it boils down to safety.

We had a very long conversation about safety and privacy and all that stuff. I gave her an example of an IM conversation that seemed innocent enough, but gave enough info for a psycho to know where she lived, what she looked like, where she went to school, and how to "get" her. I explained that this is the reason that I want to keep her contact list to those people that she knows IRL, because online, we're all whoever we want to be, not necessarily who we are. I know that she sees the safety aspect of it, because a friend of hers recently had her hotmail account hijacked/hacked and the hijacker has been trying to get information from all of this girl's contacts (including me). Also, one of the girls was actually followed to school after an outing two weeks ago, so I think the safety issues are getting through.

Sorry for the rambling post, but wanted to give an update and let you all know that we have talked about it and I think that explaining the "whys" helped a lot and that now we are on a better page. (She's still lost internet access for a few days for breaking the original rules, though.)

[lactavia]

Public computer access only. Take the thing away. Put it in a public place. Until she can gain back your trust it stays out.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by lactavia

Public computer access only. Take the thing away. Put it in a public place. Until she can gain back your trust it stays out.

The big problem with this is that it doesn't eliminate the use of computers at friends' houses.

We had a similar issue (as I said) with our son. My husband's first reaction was eliminate the computer. Computer is gone, problem solved. Not the case though. We did restrict his access for a time and he is still not allowed on a specific site, but he needs to learn how to safely be on the computer without us being right over top of him 24/7. He will eventually be other places with internet access and no safety mechanisms in place. He needs to know he can regulate himself. We need to know that he can be trusted without constant supervision.

We do have AOL which has parental controls for the KOL. We get a report anytime he is on his site that tells us where he went and where he tried to go. There are safety mechanisms in place that restrict the type of sites he can access. If he wants to access a site not allowed, then he can send an email to us for approval.

I think the initial reaction of remove the source is completely normal, but not realistic. Our kids will eventually have to function in the world without us and they need to be taught how to do that. It doesn't happen through elimination of the source.

[Turkish Kate]

I agree, Houdini. Removing the computer does not help her learn healthy habits. This is something that DD and I discussed, I told her it was my first reaction, but that I would rather her learn to monitor her own behavior and learn to do the right thing than to have the choices taken from her.

"Virtue never tested is no virtue at all." Or something like that.

[lactavia]

Originally Posted by Turkish Kate

I agree, Houdini. Removing the computer does not help her learn healthy habits. This is something that DD and I discussed, I told her it was my first reaction, but that I would rather her learn to monitor her own behavior and learn to do the right thing than to have the choices taken from her.

Okay - so what do they learn? They learn that they get to keep their computer, do what they want to anyway, do they really learn saftey on line? I don't have a teenager yet, but I am a middle school teacher. My students tell me EVERYTHING. And one of the things that they tell me is that this stuff doesn't work. Period. They learn how to get around it majority of the time. Or their parents are so on top of them constantly they don't bother trying anymore.
Plus as a teacher, when I find their myspace pages, I call them on it immediatly. They hate it when we find their stuff. They don't realize that it's all public. But in the end it isn't my responsiblity to watch them online...so I guess...thanks for staying on top of your kids! You are all great parents!

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by lactavia

Okay - so what do they learn? They learn that they get to keep their computer, do what they want to anyway, do they really learn saftey on line?

What do they learn by taking it away? They learn to hide better the next time.

When we removed computer priveleges from our son after he was having issues, it was for one week. After that, he was allowed on playing only games in our home. A week later he was allowed on specific sites online. It has been more than a month now and he is still not allowed on the site in question, but has all other priveleges back. He has had one 'relapse,' but instead of complete denial of his actions, he came to me and said he was sorry. He told me he had visited a questionable site and he put his own restraints on himself for a good week. We did no restrictions, but he knew he would have issues and he took action to eliminate the temptation. He knew he was vulnerable and didn't want to be tempted.

This is a huge step over the past year for him b/c in the beginning he would adamently deny any knowledge of the sites in question. It has been a long road of removal, restrictions, and constant monitoring to get him to the point he is now. He knows how hard it is to stay on sites he is supposed to be on, so he is now starting to self-restrict. In in the end, this is what is needs to learn....how to stay where he should even when not having me watch him.

Yes, they learn how to be safe online. My children all know to never give out identifying information about themselves when on any sites. They also know that there are people who will pretend to be anything, but what/who they are. They know that they must always be cautious of people online and they must always be open with us about things they encounter. Does it always work? Absolutely not, my son proved this early on. The only other thing we can do is teach and guide them. We need to keep the communication lines open with our children, especially as they enter the teen years. They need to know we are willing to hear them and consider their reasoning. If our automatic reaction is to shut them down and not trust them.....they will shut down and hide things from us. It is crucial to let our children know they are heard. If we eliminate temptations from our children's world without teaching them how to face them, then they learn nothing. They go into the world and are vulnerable to all the things they will have to face.

Originally Posted by lactavia

I don't have a teenager yet, but I am a middle school teacher. My students tell me EVERYTHING. And one of the things that they tell me is that this stuff doesn't work. Period. They learn how to get around it majority of the time. Or their parents are so on top of them constantly they don't bother trying anymore.

I am not sure what stuff you are referring to with your students. Every child is different and every child needs to treated accordingly. I completely agree they can get around most precautions set in place, which is why it is crucial to teach them how to be safe online. Period. I tried the whole on top of my son all the time and he did stop trying.....right up until I stopped constant monitoring. This is why the removal won't work.

Originally Posted by lactavia

Plus as a teacher, when I find their myspace pages, I call them on it immediatly. They hate it when we find their stuff. They don't realize that it's all public.

The fact that they don't realize they can be put on private is why, as parents, we need to inform and teach our children about these sites. How else do they learn about them? From their friends who are taught by other friends, which can lead to all kinds of misinformation. I have a myspace page b/c I want to know how everything works before my children are exposed or ask. How do I teach them without having the knowledge myself?

Originally Posted by lactavia

But in the end it isn't my responsiblity to watch them online...so I guess...thanks for staying on top of your kids! You are all great parents!

I am not sure what tone this was suppose to convey, but it doesn't sound very positive to me. If I am mistaken, I apologize. It seems more like a slight to parents for either being unknowledgable about the dangers or for allowing their children more access than you deem necessary.

[Mamato2and2]

MySpace has been the BIG issue around our house lately. My daughter has had an account for a while now and I never really had any objections to it. We did discuss the issue of preditors and whenever anything is on the news/newpaper about it I make sure she listens/reads it and then we will discuss it. She has left her page open before and I have reviewed everything on it w/o her knowledge and there was nothing "bad" on it. She has her account set to private so she has to authorize who can access it--this is where the problem for me comes in b/c that means that I can't access it b/c she hasn't made me one of her "friends". When I asked her to make me her "friend" she refused-she won't give me her password either. So now she doesn't have internet access until she either makes me her friend or gives me her password. She is LIVID!! But I feel that she must have something to hide so I am denying her the PRIVILEDGE of using the internet.

I feel that as long as you communicate about things on myspace and as long as you have access to their page then it's okay. Like the op said they can always make one at a friend's house (I guess that's where mine will be doing her myspace now-w/o my permission!) so as long as they are open about it then I feel that it is ok. But I would not allow it to be in their bedroom. Our computer is in the middle of the family room so it makes it hard for her to hide anything b/c she never knows when someone is reading over her shoulder

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Houdini

The big problem with this is that it doesn't eliminate the use of computers at friends' houses.

If she's not responsible enough to keep herself safe and follow your rules when at a friend's house should she be going to friend's houses? I'd have her friends come over to your house for a while.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by mika3

MySpace has been the BIG issue around our house lately. My daughter has had an account for a while now and I never really had any objections to it. We did discuss the issue of preditors and whenever anything is on the news/newpaper about it I make sure she listens/reads it and then we will discuss it. She has left her page open before and I have reviewed everything on it w/o her knowledge and there was nothing "bad" on it. She has her account set to private so she has to authorize who can access it--this is where the problem for me comes in b/c that means that I can't access it b/c she hasn't made me one of her "friends". When I asked her to make me her "friend" she refused-she won't give me her password either. So now she doesn't have internet access until she either makes me her friend or gives me her password. She is LIVID!! But I feel that she must have something to hide so I am denying her the PRIVILEDGE of using the internet.

I feel that as long as you communicate about things on myspace and as long as you have access to their page then it's okay. Like the op said they can always make one at a friend's house (I guess that's where mine will be doing her myspace now-w/o my permission!) so as long as they are open about it then I feel that it is ok. But I would not allow it to be in their bedroom. Our computer is in the middle of the family room so it makes it hard for her to hide anything b/c she never knows when someone is reading over her shoulder

I completely agree with having the passwords or access to their accounts. My children know that I get to make checks whenever I feel the need to and if I am unable to have access, they are unable to have access.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

If she's not responsible enough to keep herself safe and follow your rules when at a friend's house should she be going to friend's houses? I'd have her friends come over to your house for a while.

Honestly, mine aren't to the going to friend's houses stage as of yet. It's getting to that point very quickly I'm sure.

As far as not being able to follow rules at home and going against your wishes when at friends' houses.....not sure. I am going to guess that I won't know about the bulk of what happens at other people's houses. I do agree with friend's coming over to be at my house though. Eventually, the kids are going to be outside of my watchful eye and will need to have the tools to monitor themselves.

[UnschoolnMa]

I have no idea what my Dd's password is. It could be about her fave animal though. She knows my password though lol.

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Houdini

Honestly, mine aren't to the going to friend's houses stage as of yet. It's getting to that point very quickly I'm sure.

As far as not being able to follow rules at home and going against your wishes when at friends' houses.....not sure. I am going to guess that I won't know about the bulk of what happens at other people's houses. I do agree with friend's coming over to be at my house though. Eventually, the kids are going to be outside of my watchful eye and will need to have the tools to monitor themselves.

We recently had an incident that cemented it for me. My dd had a friend spend the night. This friend just turned 12 and is in 6th grade. Dd is 10 1/2. They took dd's dog for a walk after dinner. They had a walkie talkie with them and a medium sized dog that is very protective of my dd. They were very responsible and headed for home when it started getting dark. They were gone about 20 or 30 min. The 12yo's mom saw them out and was PISSED that her dd was out without an adult. They were about 4 blocks away. See, that's what got me thinking. At first I felt bad... then I realized that it's not up to me to know what my dd's friend's are allowed to do. That's between her and her mother. If she knew her mother wouldn't want her out walking the dog, then she should have spoken up. I would have walked with them or had them wait until morning when I take my daily walk. I have no problem helping a child adhere to their parent's expectations, but it's up to the parents to make sure their child knows what those expectations are. This girl is probably now grounded from spending the night at other's ppl's houses because she did something her mom considered dangerous.