how many books before bed?

[nichole]

ds takes about 2 hours to fall asleep. partly b/c he has trouble relaxing and partly b/c his brother's needs interrupt us. i posted about it before. i'm thinking you guys might be able to help me b/c the family bed forum is more often visited by parents of younger children. ds1 is 3. usually we read 3 books. then its like 2 hours of me laying with him, leaving the room, coming back, laying with him, etc. last night i told him he could read in his room or play with a toy in his bed but then he just got out of bed sooo many times. i was thinking about reading books with him for longer. like an hour if the baby will cooperate. do you guys think it will help or just prolong the process? he is definately tired, just fighting it. also i tell him it is time to stop talking but maybe i should talk with him a while? we have one on one time right before bed where we talk and play. i get tired and the baby gets cranky so i don't want to prolong things but it is not enjoyable for him anymore.

i think it would be cool if i could read them both to sleep when the baby is a bit older. right now the baby will ONLY fall asleep in the rocking chair and ds mostly needs to be in his bed with the light with someone laying with them. and even then he has to wiggle around for quite a while. he gets plenty of exercise. we limit tv and sugar.

maybe i should do like an hour of reading and 30 minutes of talking quietly and then roll over and say it is time to sleep. then i can shorten it once he stop fighting sleep so bad? right now we do 3 stories which last 30 minutes total and talk for maybe 5 minutes. what do you guys do? when he was nursing he was nurse for an hour or more before falling asleep!

[babysbum2]

My son also has trouble falling asleep. One story, read beautifully and slowly, is more than enough. Any more is likely to keep him awake out of confusion! What works with my son is a strict routine. This is how it goes;
6pm dinner
6.30pm shower
7pm board game with mom and dad
7.30pm play by himself
7.45pm brush teeth
8pm in bed

We have this written down and on the fridge door. Then the bedtime routine goes like this;

One good story
Then we put the book down and turn out the light, with just the hall light on. We then go through the day, which I make very hypnotic and 'boring', starting with what he had for breakfast and everything we did, then I go through what will happen tomorrow in the same way. I finish up with a short, light-hearted prayer. After that I leave the room and tell him he can play quietly in his room until he feels like sleeping. This system works well with us.

[LookMommy!]

On those "jack in the box" nights I use a story on tape. There are wonderful stories on tapes or CDs read by great actors, if you look around. That way the lights are out, their eyes are closed (no "I want to see the pictures"!) and I can do what I have to do, peeking in occasionally. Last night (ds sick, no time for dd) she listened to a Starlight CD of fairy tales, one read by Oprah Winfrey. I feel like my presence sometimes makes it harder for dc to fall asleep, although sometimes it's the only thing that helps. I don't like to lie down, unless I'm going to sleep for the night, which I sometimes don't want to do at 8:30 YKWIM?

Good luck finding what works!:

[nichole]

these are great ideas. lookmommy that is exactly the problem. my presence keeps him awake. i don't mind laying with him if he will just lay still and dh kinda rather not but will do it to help me. where do you get the books on tapes? no i do not want to go to bed at 8:30. but most nights i'm just happy to go to bed at all!

[nichole]

Originally Posted by babysbum2

My son also has trouble falling asleep. One story, read beautifully and slowly, is more than enough. Any more is likely to keep him awake out of confusion! What works with my son is a strict routine. This is how it goes;
6pm dinner
6.30pm shower
7pm board game with mom and dad
7.30pm play by himself
7.45pm brush teeth
8pm in bed

We have this written down and on the fridge door. Then the bedtime routine goes like this;

One good story
Then we put the book down and turn out the light, with just the hall light on. We then go through the day, which I make very hypnotic and 'boring', starting with what he had for breakfast and everything we did, then I go through what will happen tomorrow in the same way. I finish up with a short, light-hearted prayer. After that I leave the room and tell him he can play quietly in his room until he feels like sleeping. This system works well with us.

babysbum i'm sure ds would just come out in the living room 100 times? i guess it just takes consistency to help him learn?

[wanderlost]

We read three books - Usually I read 2 and he reads 1 (he's 7) and then I pop in a relaxing CD (lately it's been Deuter, "Reiki Hands of Light" ) and I am out the door. Often he gets up a few times for water or something, but that's it. It ttok us years to get to this point - but routine was what worked best nan never letting him stay out of bed if he got out....always right back in, tucked in, etc. It was a lot of work and annoyance when he was younger, but now it's pretty easy.

[LookMommy!]

Nichole,

I mostly get the tapes 2nd hand, but just do an Amazon search for books on tapes. We like Jim somebody or other who reads Greek Myths, King Arthur, etc. Any bookstore (in America) will have a good selection, I'm sure. Or, you could make your own! Good luck!

[Daffodil]

Stories on tape seems like a good idea. Maybe music would be good too. When my DD was about 2 1/2, I discovered that singing her songs would put her to sleep way faster than telling her stories.

For a totally different approach, what if you just wait until later in the evening to start trying to get him to go to sleep? Instead of having him lie down and then spending the next 2 hours working on getting him to sleep, why not just get him ready for bed, then let him play if he wants to until it's the time of night when he usually finally falls asleep - then put him in bed? Seems like that would be easier for all of you. And once he started falling asleep more quickly, you could gradually experiment with moving his bedtime earlier and earlier.

[nichole]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

Stories on tape seems like a good idea. Maybe music would be good too. When my DD was about 2 1/2, I discovered that singing her songs would put her to sleep way faster than telling her stories.

For a totally different approach, what if you just wait until later in the evening to start trying to get him to go to sleep? Instead of having him lie down and then spending the next 2 hours working on getting him to sleep, why not just get him ready for bed, then let him play if he wants to until it's the time of night when he usually finally falls asleep - then put him in bed? Seems like that would be easier for all of you. And once he started falling asleep more quickly, you could gradually experiment with moving his bedtime earlier and earlier.

daffodil- b/c he goes nuts when he is tired. throws things, whines, etc. it takes two hours even if i let him stay up til midnight. i tried!!!!!!!!!

we bought some books on tape. no nap today. so we are starting early tonight.

[LynnS6]

If he's giving up his nap, that definitely makes sleep schedules harder. dd is in a cycle now where if she naps, she's up until 10 or 10:30, no matter what. (Yesterday she had the lovely 5-6 pm nap and was up until midnight!) So, maybe elminating the nap, as hard as that is for a few weeks, might help him sleep better.

Also, it sounds to me like he's overtired. So, maybe moving bedtime back a bit would help?

We're in a similar situation with dd (it takes her an hour or two to fall asleep), and I'm ready to be done with the lie there until she falls asleep bit. But, it takes a lot of energy to get them to do it by themselves, more than I've got right now.

[oldcrunchymom]

Could you find a book to read (to yourself! ) or some other quiet project to do next to him until he falls asleep? I know, not an idea solution, but it would prevent the getting up a million times thing and might help him fall asleep faster and save you the two hours of grief. I used to lie next to my kids reading until they fell asleep when they were little like that. I made it clear I was not going to engage/converse with them, otherwise they'd stay up forever.

Anyway, for bedtime stories, I used to read 2-3 short ones or one long one.

[nichole]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

If he's giving up his nap, that definitely makes sleep schedules harder. dd is in a cycle now where if she naps, she's up until 10 or 10:30, no matter what. (Yesterday she had the lovely 5-6 pm nap and was up until midnight!) So, maybe elminating the nap, as hard as that is for a few weeks, might help him sleep better.

Also, it sounds to me like he's overtired. So, maybe moving bedtime back a bit would help?

We're in a similar situation with dd (it takes her an hour or two to fall asleep), and I'm ready to be done with the lie there until she falls asleep bit. But, it takes a lot of energy to get them to do it by themselves, more than I've got right now.

i'm kinda happy when he doesn't nap but dh doesn't get home til 7 so for now he needs to take one some dayys

yes he is overtired.

last night he went to bed early. both kids did. i really needed the down time@!

[nichole]

Originally Posted by lckrause

Could you find a book to read (to yourself! ) or some other quiet project to do next to him until he falls asleep? I know, not an idea solution, but it would prevent the getting up a million times thing and might help him fall asleep faster and save you the two hours of grief. I used to lie next to my kids reading until they fell asleep when they were little like that. I made it clear I was not going to engage/converse with them, otherwise they'd stay up forever.

Anyway, for bedtime stories, I used to read 2-3 short ones or one long one.

i willl try that. hard to do when the baby needs me too. but if dh has the baby i will. gonna write it down!

couldnt find a cd player yet and didnt even need it last night. we are still adjusting to being a family of four. i imagine this is even harder on him. and he has hated sleeping since he was 2weeks old. would scream himself to sleep in my arms!

[OakBerry]

Originally Posted by lckrause

Could you find a book to read (to yourself! ) or some other quiet project to do next to him until he falls asleep? I know, not an idea solution, but it would prevent the getting up a million times thing and might help him fall asleep faster and save you the two hours of grief. I used to lie next to my kids reading until they fell asleep when they were little like that. I made it clear I was not going to engage/converse with them, otherwise they'd stay up forever.

Anyway, for bedtime stories, I used to read 2-3 short ones or one long one.

I agree with this!
I have to lie next to ds but turn my back on him. Otherwise he is poking my face, belly, talking, singing...
I've also told him that mama will lie with him for a certain amount of time, then I will go out. He is free to read books in bed, with his lantern (in bed with him so he can control the light) as long as he wants, as long as he does not come out of the room. Giving him control of the lighting in the room, as well as having something to do (reading) has helped.
Sometimes I have to stay with him until he falls asleep, but usually he'll let me leave after about 20 minutes and he's relaxed.

My ds also gets crazy and hyper when he's tired. What's really helped us was putting him to bed earlier. Before he gets that overtired adrenaline rush that would keep him up the extra 2 hours. I thought it was ridiculous to put a 4 year old to bed at 7:30 pm, but it actually is much smoother this way.

[nichole]

Originally Posted by OakBerry

I agree with this!
I have to lie next to ds but turn my back on him. Otherwise he is poking my face, belly, talking, singing...
I've also told him that mama will lie with him for a certain amount of time, then I will go out. He is free to read books in bed, with his lantern (in bed with him so he can control the light) as long as he wants, as long as he does not come out of the room. Giving him control of the lighting in the room, as well as having something to do (reading) has helped.
Sometimes I have to stay with him until he falls asleep, but usually he'll let me leave after about 20 minutes and he's relaxed.

My ds also gets crazy and hyper when he's tired. What's really helped us was putting him to bed earlier. Before he gets that overtired adrenaline rush that would keep him up the extra 2 hours. I thought it was ridiculous to put a 4 year old to bed at 7:30 pm, but it actually is much smoother this way.

ok so he goes to bed at 7:30? what time does he get up and does he take nap? what do i do when he takes a 30 minute nap at four pm!?! no nap yesterday either and his behavior was pretty whiney but we made it til dinner. then we did bath, quiet play, diaper, toothbrushing, books, nights out.

then the baby needed me so i did what you said and he chose to read books with the light on. but he was so quiet in there while i rocked the baby down. then i was able to go lay down with him. and ah, both kids were asleep! yay!

dh will be getting home around 7pm for a few more weeks. then he goes from 12pm to 12am for a while. i might try to ditch the nap then and see how it goes. and i dont mind if he goes to bed say at 8:30pm as long as he sleeps in if he adjusts to not having a nap. right now he is still asleep. the thing is that we dropped naps before. he was younger but his behavior was bad and we were losing our temper with him

[Ravin]

What seems to coax my DD into going to bed is when she stops getting attention. I refuse to force her to stay in her bed and deal w/ the ensuing temper tantrum. Instead, I tell her it is bedtime, and I will read to her and she can nurse. We read 1 picture book then I read from a chapter book (currently, Lord of the Rings). If she chooses not to nurse, I get up and go do something else and ignore her until she's ready to ask to go to bed.

On the occasions when she fights it long enough that I'm ready to go to bed, then we go to my bed (where DH is already sleeping because he has to get up at 2 AM) and lay down in the dark and nurse. When it's totally dark and everyone else is asleep, she goes to sleep.

DH still has notions that she should be going to bed before 8 PM or some such. He has yet to accept that his daughter is a night owl. She goes to bed earlier like that only if we've gotten up early and her nap has been short.

[Milkymommy]

Can you bring the rocking chair in your son's room? That way you can rock the baby to sleep and still be there with your older son. Maybe while reading aloud from a book or listening to a story on tape.

[Houdini]

We had to eliminate any type of napping by three with our youngest b/c he just couldn't fall asleep until at least 10 pm. All of my kids were in bed at 7 until last summer. They now go to bed at 8. If Nicholas gets any amount of sleep, even just 10 minutes in the car, he is wired til late at night. If he tries to fall asleep, we engage him with some activity. If he actually falls asleep before 7, we wake him up.

That said it is easier for me (I would guess) b/c I don't have a new baby to put into the mix. It is harder when there are ones smaller in the house.

[OakBerry]

Originally Posted by nichole

ok so he goes to bed at 7:30? what time does he get up and does he take nap? what do i do when he takes a 30 minute nap at four pm!?! no nap yesterday either and his behavior was pretty whiney but we made it til dinner. then we did bath, quiet play, diaper, toothbrushing, books, nights out.

then the baby needed me so i did what you said and he chose to read books with the light on. but he was so quiet in there while i rocked the baby down. then i was able to go lay down with him. and ah, both kids were asleep! yay!

dh will be getting home around 7pm for a few more weeks. then he goes from 12pm to 12am for a while. i might try to ditch the nap then and see how it goes. and i dont mind if he goes to bed say at 8:30pm as long as he sleeps in if he adjusts to not having a nap. right now he is still asleep. the thing is that we dropped naps before. he was younger but his behavior was bad and we were losing our temper with him

Hi,
My ds does not nap. He stopped at 3.5. During the weeks/months he was stopping the nap, it was rough and we had to muddle through. Some days he would nap and other days he wouldn't. Ds is almost 4.5 now, so it's taken a while to get into a good early to bed, early to rise routine. He sleeps 12 hours almost exactly, so if he goes to bed at 7:30 (asleep by 8), he is up by 8-8:30am, usually.
Basically it ended up if he napped late in the day, (4pm) and he would wake up grumpy and scream hysterically for an hour. Then he wouldn't go to bed until 10 or 11 at night. It really wasn't worth it for us to do the nap anymore.
Luckily ds isn't the type to fall asleep easily on his own, so if he is in the common living areas with me or ds, he won't fall asleep.
If we are in the car after 3:30 pm, he probably will fall asleep. I try to get my errands done early, lol. If he does end up falling asleep in the car, I wake him as soon as possible, feed him dinner, and push bedtime up an hour or so.

Good luck, it will sort itself out eventually, but it's no fun at that "in between" naping stage.

[googiesweet]

i feel for you! it is rough having a baby and one dropping his naps. for me, it was so tempting to let DS1 nap as long as possible because i could usually get a nap in with him and DS2 (or get stuff done or just have a break), but then i would wonder why after we put him to bed at 8pm he would keep coming out of his room for an hour til he would finally fall asleep. in retrospect i think we could have dropped the nap months before we did, but that adjustment time is rough and with my first i didnt feel comfortable ever waking him or not letting him sleep. i am just doing that dance with DS2 now and i have become very hard-hearted! naps have to be early and brief or he is up til all hours, and with 2 it is nice to have them share the bedtime routine.

like others have said, he may be grumpy in the evening but i wouldnt let him fall asleep unless he really really cant help it, a distracting and fun activity is great for that when you see him starting to fade. no trips in the car in the late afternoon. earlier bedtime. a story cd at bedtime helped us too. once we dropped the nap our 3.5 yr old now goes to bed at 7:30 and falls asleep within minutes of his head touching the pillow, and sleeps til 7:30 in the morning.

good luck!