marriage help - angry husband

[breathedeep]

I think I need to talk to a few mamas that have endured verbal, emotional and psychological abuse - and still stuck with the relationship and manged to improve things.

This is so difficult to write. How does one put relationship problems in a nutshell? I don't want to ramble out a long dramatic emotional saga, so I've left most of that out.

I'm looking for practical solutions so we can get on with our lives!



My husband has multiple health issues. He usually feels lousy, and for good reason. Some of his health issues actually affect his cognitive function, though not enough to remove personal responsibility from his actions.

He insults me often, makes far-fetched accusations just to get a reaction, calls me horrible things, disrespects and demeans my thoughts and feelings and efforts, attempts to manipulate to get what he wants, and generally feels the need to control every aspect of my life.

Various life situations have changed over the last couple years, and I'm fed up with wasting my time responding to his manipulation, coaxing him down off an emotional rooftop re: my level of commitment and morality, or walking his ego thru my reasons to stay married to him. I'm here. If I wanted to leave, I have the ability and the support. And I'm still here. Period.

I used to fall for a lot of the manipulation. Then I started picking my battles. Now I'm just too busy to put up with this vast waste of energy. He's a grown man and needs to start acting like one in this area of his life. The more I show that I'm not willing to play the part of the subservient obedient wife, the more he works doubly hard to shove me into that role.

The worst part is that he puts our child in the middle. They spend a lot of time together, and as long as he and I don't disagree on something, our child benefits from their time together. If he decides to let loose a tirade, though...it doesn't matter to him if she's around, what she hears, what she learns or repeats. He often ends arguments by taking her to a playground or other kid place - rewarding her for being willing to leave mommy?

She's also cultivating a manipulative habit of her own. If I say she has to do something and she doesn't want to do it, she'll run to daddy and lie or cry, then he'll come storming to me to defend her. I'll describe what *actually* happened, he'll switch subjects to what a bitch I am, then end on something like how I'm f*$&ing someone else (pick a name, any name...there's not one person he harps on, it's different every day or two). Then he'll take her to the playground to make up for mommy's meanness. (WTF?!?!?) In short, he bails her out of responsible behavior by making me the enemy, and on a regular basis.

So, I don't currently have the patience to take the "sweet" route. I'm living on morality and ethics right now, not any emotion resembling romantic love. I don't trust him enough to relax myself emotionally - it's just a matter of time (hours or days) until he throws reality to the wind, insults my character and morality, and yanks our daughter thru the whole scene too.

It's gotten to the point where I can't stand to be around him. He's so often trying to prove a point, "teach" me something (in a way that implies I'm stupid), insult something I'm working on, tell me I'm wrong about something, or just yell at me.

I've written him letters to this effect, and he just whines that he's not getting something or other (time, sex, etc). While that's probably true in a normal relationship, I'm tired of putting myself out there emotionally, having a nice evening, then getting verbally/emotionally beat up the next day. For over 10 years, I wasn't the "Do this and you'll get sex" type. I don't use sex as leverage. That said, I've finally let him know that if he wants the benefits of marriage, he must respect me. I don't expect perfection - all couples disagree and even argue - though I will not tolerate anything resembling ABUSE and still go out of my way to fulfill his requests. (For the record, I'm still cooking dinner, doing laundry, cleaning family areas - things that keep a household running.)

I don't take even a fraction of this kind of behavior from ANYONE else in my life. I rarely even give people second chances - you screw me over, I show you the door. My business partners and project partners all knew me for a long time before they realized what I was dealing with at home, and they're constantly amazed that I stay - they know me as a hardworking constructive no-nonsense mama that doesn't allow her time to be wasted.

Looking back, I'm ashamed of myself for letting things get so bad without finding a way to stop the behaviors. Only in the last couple months have I come to terms with the word "abuse" instead of just "cranky" or "moody". My daughter deserves better.

I think my immediate goal is to make all of my boundaries VERY clear to my husband. I've already written him letters, explained things to him verbally (both simply and in detail), and often say something about how I won't accept this kind of behavior and remove myself from the situation when he starts up. (Though this also puts our child in the middle - she sees her parents dividing, even if only to another room, and then he makes a point to be clown-happy with her for a while and convinces her that something is wrong with mommy. If I take her with me, he follows me, which defeats the purpose of removing myself from the situation.)

This relationship IS worth saving. There are many positive things being overshadowed by his anger and drive to control. He has no other bad habits or risky behaviors. Certain physical conditions are causing part of this problem, and some of them will improve with time, as will other life circumstances. We have many positive things to look forward to.

I'm highly motivated to STOP my counterproductive behaviors, and to START some new behaviors that will get my marriage (and my child's mental health) back on a sane foundation. I can't control his behavior, though I can certainly make better choices in how I interact with him, and I'm hoping he'll adapt.

Any suggestions?

[PGNPORTLAND]

I'm sorry you're going through this mama. I don't have any advice except one of the last things you said rang true. Something about finding away to change your interactions . . . You didn't say whether your partner was willing to go to counseling but even if you just went alone you might find better ways to communicate to defuse the situation somewhat. I know that a lot of people will tell you to leave but you didn't ask for that kind of advice. I hope things get better. It sounds like you are at the end of your rope and ready to make some changes.

[PGNPORTLAND]

I want to add that these boards are a great place to find support and a wonderful community of mamas. Please keep posting here.

[Amris]

Go find an al-anon meeting in your area. While he might not be an alcoholic, abuse is common in alcoholic homes. So going to the support group for friends and families of alcoholics will help you learn how to cope with abuse and how to enjoy your own life in the face of it.

But, that being said, I find it sad that your standards are so low and that you think your DD deserves better, but that you don't...

[breathedeep]

Thanks for the quick responses...

I'm pretty good at the coping part - I think that's why it took me so long to realize the difference between "abuse" and "cranky". I've known for years that my behavior often had very little to do with his attitude. If he was in a bad mood, I just kept on doing what I need to get done and waited it out. I'd get angry too, though it's not my style to lose it, unless I'm pushed for days.

We've had a lot of great times together. It's not always like this. Nothing makes the abuse ok, though it was easy to forget when things went smoothly.

Because of changes in life circumstances (I could elaborate but it's likely pointless, all normal stuff) he's kicked up the controlling efforts. And I've got more than ever to get done, so I'm not engaging his anger/accusations/demands/manipulation hardly at all. Good on my part, though just pisses him off that much more.

I haven't spoken to him since this afternoon. Told him he owed me a huge apology for years of flippantly accusing me of infidelity just for his own entertainment. He's said he's sorry a few times. I told him it'll take a lot more than that. Though I haven't a clue what I'm waiting for.

More than anything, I want a promise that he'll stop all the disrespect, in big ways and small - and for him to actually keep that promise.

Is that asking too much?

[homewithtwinsmama]

verbal abuse

Originally Posted by Amris

Go find an al-anon meeting in your area. While he might not be an alcoholic, abuse is common in alcoholic homes. So going to the support group for friends and families of alcoholics will help you learn how to cope with abuse and how to enjoy your own life in the face of it.

But, that being said, I find it sad that your standards are so low and that you think your DD deserves better, but that you don't...

What she said!!!!! Naranon or alanon teach you how to detach from your partners problems that they need to solve, to be supportive without sacrificing your own happiness and needs.

I believe that when he does this you should take dd and get in a car and go away for a while every single time. Don't let him play the clown to suck her in. Keep talking, talking talking to your daughter about how screaming, cussing and belittling is wrong and you won't accept it or allow her to be around it when it starts. Ask him to leave for a while when he is in a mood, but if he won't go, you go with dd. She needs to see her role model(as all mamas are for their dds) stand up for herself. Otherwise she will pick her Daddy in a partner someday and you will see this misery replayed in her life.

Honestly, I would insist on counseling or a separation for a time until he is willing to work on it. I believe in redemption and second chances for the willing. If he is not, save your daughter and get out of this and get her out of the middle. My parents played monkey in the middle with me for years and even in awareness now I know that it affects me to this day. My stepfather verbally abused me for years. I wished he had hit me. The bruises would have been gone and it wouldn't have taken until age 26 to heal them the way the scars of the verbal abuse took (years of therapy).

Lorrie

[Amris]

Originally Posted by breathedeep

Thanks for the quick responses...

I'm pretty good at the coping part - I think that's why it took me so long to realize the difference between "abuse" and "cranky". I've known for years that my behavior often had very little to do with his attitude. If he was in a bad mood, I just kept on doing what I need to get done and waited it out. I'd get angry too, though it's not my style to lose it, unless I'm pushed for days.

I mean this in the most respectful possible way. You need to learn new ways of coping. You will continue to think that you're coping well, until you gain genuine tools. Then you'll realize that ALL you were doing was coping, not being happy.

You need new tools to move past "surviving" this stuff to having a happy life.

We've had a lot of great times together. It's not always like this. Nothing makes the abuse ok, though it was easy to forget when things went smoothly.

Because of changes in life circumstances (I could elaborate but it's likely pointless, all normal stuff) he's kicked up the controlling efforts. And I've got more than ever to get done, so I'm not engaging his anger/accusations/demands/manipulation hardly at all. Good on my part, though just pisses him off that much more.

So the adversarial life you're living is okay because "it wasn't always like this"?

I haven't spoken to him since this afternoon. Told him he owed me a huge apology for years of flippantly accusing me of infidelity just for his own entertainment. He's said he's sorry a few times. I told him it'll take a lot more than that. Though I haven't a clue what I'm waiting for.

More than anything, I want a promise that he'll stop all the disrespect, in big ways and small - and for him to actually keep that promise.

Is that asking too much?

Yes it is.

Want to know why? Because most abusive people don't change for one simple reason....

Someone else is always to blame for their problems, in their minds. And as long as someone else is to blame, or so long as life is just "picking on you," you don't change anything because you have no responsibility for anything.

How can you change anything if none of it is your responsibility? How can you change anything if you're just a victim of her behavior, just a victim of life's cruelties?



Oh, and not to make light of the situation, but you know the old joke, "He who smelt it, delt it?" I suggest you pay really close attention to the fact that he's so obsessively controlling and is accusing you of infidelity.

Those who are most controlling and most convinced their partner is cheating... are almost ALWAYS cheating themselves. You know why they are so suspicious of their partner?

THEY KNOW HOW EASY IT IS TO GET AWAY WITH IT because they are getting away with it.

[MsChatsAlot]

I think it would be helpful to get your dd into some counseling too. These behaviors will not be a basis for her having healthy relationships in the future.

[PiePie]

try cross-posting on parents as partners.

[mama ganoush]

leave him.


sorry, that is my best advice.

[Unreal]

This struck a few notes for me

My mom has health problems that cause depression and restrict her ability to be truly independent.
This led to my family being very codependent...and it wasn't until I was in my 20s that I really recognized it.
She is obsessed with my father leaving her for someone healthy. To the point of not letting him go on the simplest shopping trip alone....

She has been on anti-depressents in the past, which I believe helped some, but I know what helps the most is when she feels better about herself--which can be difficult

My mother has been sick for almost 32 years...they've been married for nearly 35. Happily married.
I wish they could both find ways to do more of what would make them both happy, but they've found a good enough balance between personal happiness and making their best friend happy....
sometimes the sacrifices my father has made makes me cringe...okay, a lot of the time....
he truly does enable her behavior....
but it works for them.

BUT....my mom, to my knowledge, never used us kids as manipulation tools.
I'm not sure what would have happened if she had...its not something I can imagine. Although I can easily see it happening.
If your greatest fear is being replaced...you are going to cling to those you care more about AND try to make them cling to you...
(creating codependents...which I guess did happen in our family......)

hrrmmmm

I would definitely go talk with a counselor...I'd go alone at first if it were me--but that is because I can't talk about stuff in front of other people--but I think that might feed his fears more than anything.

I would also say check out the al-anon, but its the same thing--you socializing with people without him is going to bring up a LOT of fears in him

But you do have to do something....it sounds like the mind games are really interferring with your relationship with dd

*hugs*
I totally applaud you for looking for ways to deal with this.

I can't even imagine what my life or my parents lives would ahve been like if they had split up.
My family isn't perfect, but there was never a doubt that the house was full of love....(controling obsessive love, but love )

[Yamahachick]

Okay, a lot of people here have given some good advice. Here is mine...

I have been in a very verbal, psychological, and physically abusive relationship for almost 6 years. Over the past two years things have gotten a ton better due to a few reason. But let me explain a few things first....

One, all my abuse started out severe. It was never small. I had the same type of verbal abuse that you are going through now. I would fight it all the time and at one time I actually started believing the things he said.

I was never able to go anywhere by myself, talk on the phone by myself or have friends. When I was at work he would call me contantly and then if he couldnt get a hold of me he would accuse me of being with another guy.

This finally ended when I just got tired of being abused and I had him sent to jail for 45 days. He got out and was on probation and is going through some anger classes. This is not how it changed for us though even though it did help some.

After he got out of jail, we sat down by ourselves and had a huge discussion. Things needed to change between the two of us. We then went out and found something that the two of us could enjoy together. A hobby that we were both interested in. This is where we got into motorcycles. We bought a motorcycle for my husband and started going out and riding every night and going for trips on weekends. My husband met a guy who rides the same bike as him and they are now good friends. I got along great with his gf. As the years have progressed he is now getting ready to race for a team just at small tracks around the area with a big time sponsor and we have a huge group of friends that we get along great with. We do so much together and while my husband is in TX I have a great group of friends here for me that will do anything for me. That seems to be all we needed. Just to get out with people and spend some quality time together.

Now I know this is long, but I am almost done. My husband still says some things but now it is once in a great while and I will ignore it and later he will come back and apologize for it. I havent had to argue or say anything, he just figures it out when he calms down and usually only gets angry when he is stressed or in a rough situation.

I wish I could tell you what to do exactly, but I cant. Just remember that it isnt about you that it is about him. He does it to make himself feel better. He doesnt respect himself so he will disrespect you to make him feel better. When he sees that it doesnt bother you anymore, he will finally get the idea and stop or atleast minimize it.

And the other thing... Do not get counseling without him or without him knowing. That will upset him more and may cause more serious problems. Please try to sit down, just the two of you and talk with each other. Try to find some things to do with the family together and then maybe something just the two of you can do together once or twice a week without your child. Come closer together and things will get better. I hope this helps.

[JessicaS]

What health issues does he have?

Not trying to excuse his behavior but some different types of medication or illnesses can really cause some problems.

What is he doing to work on his health issues? Have you discussed his behavior with his Dr?

I would seek counseling.

[Al Dente]

Personally, I don't think writing letters helps. People who are narcissistic don't recognize that they are the problem, and they get angry/defensive when others point it out. You are talking (and talking and talking) and he is not hearing it. Period. If he heard you and got that you were serious, he would know that he'd either have to change or move out.

I have recently been through 2.5 years of this same kind of thing. One day I had had enough, and I left. I left with dh knowing full well I was NOT looking to divorce him, but just wanting us to seek counseling. At the time, I had to face the reality that he might never go to counseling and he might never change. I was willing to stay on my own (with ds) separated but not divorced for years if need be. I didn't want my marriage to be over, but I wasn't going to put up with that crap ONE.MORE.DAY.

Your daughter is observing all of this. I know you do not want her to grow up to take abuse such as this from her husband. I know that you want her to love and respect you, too. To that end, you need to make some tough decisions and take action. Staying and writing letters, talking, crying, and all that is not going to change him. He has to want to change and see his problems. Using your daughter as leverage is immature at best, and pretty despicable in my mind.

One thing that helped us immensely was a conference we went to. We fought all the way there (3 hour drive) and were immediately ashamed of ourselves after we heard the material. That, in conjunction with the counseling and him finally realizing that I was SERIOUS about not living one more day in an abusive situation, was the catalyst we needed. Their website is: http://www.loveandrespect.com/conten...nd_respect.php It is Christian-based, but they don't beat you over the head with it. Our secular friends went with us and didn't feel preached to, but it really changed them, too.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. I'm glad you are getting such a broad range of good advice here.

[pranamama]

I was unable to change my ex husband and his attitude was taken on by my firstborn daughter who I hope to get through to as she is still a child. That is why among other things I would suggest you maintain a normal life for yourself outside of this relationship if youare going to stay if that is possible, work, or develop a career, have friendships with the sort of people you admire and respect and practice your religion and do not make a blanket statement that you will not leave no matter what because someday you may be too afraid to leave and feel completely paralyzed if you stay too long. Practice treating yourself with respect and meeting your own needs and don't contort yourself to try to make your partner happy.

[breathedeep]

Thanks so much, especially Yamahachick and Unreal.

There are many many good things about our marriage, and I see this as a problem to be solved, not something to toss away or run from. If I felt that I was in physical danger, I'd be outta here in seconds. I've got support.

My husband's health issues are often severe, and they are definitely causing part of the problem. They DO NOT remove his personal responsibility. I totally understand that he's not going to feel like a happy go lucky energetic always positive person - that doesn't mean it's ok for him to act like this. Sometimes the line gets blurred, so I'm starting with the most severe behaviors first.

The hobby part is great - he constantly complains that I don't spend enough time with him - so I think there's a solution in there - I'm just not sure what to do. There are things we like to do together, though honestly I dread getting in the car with him (closed environment, I can't just walk away when he starts insulting and being disrespectful) and since I carry 100% of the workload in the house (he does spends time w/ our daughter, though does zero cooking/cleaning/etc) if I come home to a trashed house (that he created) I clean it before I'm willing to go do something fun. Maybe I'm too picky in these ways - he constantly tells me to relax, then tells me I'm shitty at it. (ie, Tells me what to do then tells me I'll fail at it.)

These are some of the things that *I* need to get thru. Even though he's been bitching for hours on end, if he says he wants to go out to dinner, I'm just supposed to go, regardless of any other practical things that need to be done? If he tells me he wants to go somewhere, then we get there and he spends the entire time telling me *I* don't want to be there, it feels extremely stupid to go the next time he asks - I end up feeling like a fool for getting insulted, and a double fool for putting myself BACK into a situation where I was previously insulted. SOMETIMES when we go places, it will be miraculously peaceful, and he'll be insult-free, though that's definitely the exception lately.

He definitely has self-esteem issues, and he's not busy enough. If he had things to do that interested him, he wouldn't be so interested in micromanaging me. Though 1) I can't push him into a hobby of his own, he has to do that; and 2) If I get insulted all the way through activities we do together, what's the point?

I'm sure there's a way thru this, just not sure what it is. If I guarantee him one day or one afternoon a week for family time, he'll complain that he only gets one day, and work/house/practical things get the other 6 days. If he wanted to work WITH me instead of against me, the practical things wouldn't take so long.

[pranamama]

There's a book I really liked called Who's pulling your strings. It has practical advice in avoiding being manipulated. I also liked the verbally abusive relationship book. That one is less practical, but has some standard lines to consider using and points out different ways of unfairly controlling another person.

You sound wonderful. I hope you stay that way! Remember to take good care of yourself.

[wonderfulmom]

You really need professional guidance with this. It is abuse.
Choosing this life for yourself is one thing-
but it sounds very unhealthy for your child.

[Boobs]

I'll keep it short and sweet because I'm nursing a contortionist at the moment......LOVE DOESN'T HURT.
Abusive relationships don't get better. They get worse. Someone who really loves you would never intentionally hurt you, physically, emotionally, or psychologically.

[Al Dente]

Originally Posted by Boobs

I'll keep it short and sweet because I'm nursing a contortionist at the moment......LOVE DOESN'T HURT.
Abusive relationships don't get better. They get worse. Someone who really loves you would never intentionally hurt you, physically, emotionally, or psychologically.

I respectfully disagree. People can change and grow. They just have to desire it and see the way to do it first. Many people who are damaged themselves don't know any other way to cope except to damage others. There IS hope for those people if they want to change. That being said, I would never tolerate physical abuse, but I would (and have) be willing to stay with someone who is working on overcoming abusing in other ways.