Wwyd?

[libranbutterfly]

My daughter recently witnessed her cousin get a spanking. I dont agree with the reason for the spanking, or a lot of things that this partcular family does, but I am more concerned about my daughter. She was very shook up by this, and is still too young to really talk to me about it. I think it actually hurt her more that the child who got spanked. I am not trying to tell them to change, but I dont know how to explain it to my 2 yr old. I hope this is ok to post. I am not wanting to discuss spanking, just my DD's feelings after witnessing it. TIA!

[alegna]

Your poor baby! I think my dd would be very shaken up seeing that also. I would talk to her about it. I would tell her it's wrong, but some parents don't know that.

And most important I would figure out how this happened and NEVER let it happen again. (was it in your home? someone elses'? did you see it coming? next time plan to leave, etc)

-Angela

[libranbutterfly]

It happened very quickly. I was at MILs house doing laundry, and her SIL desided to bring her grandkids up for a visit (no one even knew they were coming) Both girls were eating lunchmeat, and Brandy tried to hand me hers. I told her no thanks, we already had some. She got a really frustrated look on her face, then threw it on the floor. B's Gma told her to pick it up or she was getting a spanking, B started to bend down, and gma spanked her! After that, B tried to hand me the meat again, and I told her I didnt want it, but if she didnt want it, she could throw it in the trash, she walked over and threw it away, no problems. The gma also though my DD was being irrational when she started crying, saying "its not like a spanked you, get over it"

[MsChatsAlot]

It's not possible to shelter our kids from witnessing or experiencing unpleasant and/or violent things in our world. The only thing we can do is listen to them, talk to them, help them understand, and show them through our actions and words that there are other ways.

Using the word "wrong" is quite a judgment. I say things like 'some people make the choice to spank because they believe it is okay. It's not a choice for me or our family, because I believe we can handle situations by talking to one another & working together to find solutions.'

[georgia]

I realize some are uncomfortable using "right" or "wrong" and I agree for the most part However, judgement is not always a negative thing. It's how we make decisions. I'm personally completely comfortable using judgment to deem spanking *wrong* when talking to my children, along with the explanation that other families do things differently. If physical punishment and spanking aren't deemed to be *wrong* by me, then they are just alternative "choices." Neither positive nor negative---and IMO, I believe in spreading the message that spanking is simply more than a different parenting choice. As you can tell, I do not believe that physical punishment has any place at the table of moral relativism

[libranbutterfly]

hank you for your input. DD seems okay now, but I want to handlee it better if it happens again (I think I'm the only "freak" mom in my town who does not think it is okay to spank.

[alegna]

Personally I feel that it is very important for children to understand that hitting is wrong. It simply is.

-Angela

[mama2mygirl]

I am completely comfortable being judgemental on this one--hitting IS wrong.

[WuWei]

I find that stating anything as "right" or "wrong" impedes the listener from hearing what to do instead, because they feel judgment of behavior, rather than focus on feelings and underlying needs. Hitting children certainly is not something which I advocate. However, I do advocate finding solutions with which everyone agrees. I would explain that the grandma was frustrated and didn't know another way to get what she wanted. I would assure the child that she would never be hit by grandma and I would have stated that then and there to the grandma directly. "Hitting hurts! Please understand that we discuss what we need, people don't want to be hit to make them do what we want. If you are upset with my child, I need you to talk with me. She does not want to be hit and I don't ever want her to be hit!" I would certainly never leave my child with the MIL. But, I would make a public statement advocating for the child's needs who was hit, stating a boundary to the MIL regarding conflict resolution and discipline, and reassuring our child of her safety.

Some people do feel that hitting and other forms of force and violence is "right" in certain and varying situations. So, I don't believe in absolute moral statements like "hitting is wrong".


Pat

[georgia]

Some people do feel that hitting and other forms of force and violence is "right" in certain and varying situations. So, I don't believe in absolute moral statements like "hitting is wrong".

I don't understand what you mean in the above statement...could you clarify for me? Because some people think hitting is "right" you don't believe in making a moral judgement that hitting is "wrong"? I'm confused. I am all about explaining the whys of actions, in addition to helping my children understand my personal beliefs about how a person deserves to be treated. I am not interested in pushing my beliefs on anyone, moral or otherwise, but I do have standards to which I hold myself accountable. Believing that hitting is hurtful and wrong is one of them

I am not understanding how proclaiming hitting is "wrong" would be against anyone's beliefs unless this person believes that hitting is something that they find acceptable (for lack of a clearer term which is escaping me). And thus, I am confused and would appreciate any further expanation you might be willing to provide

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

While I agree that hitting (including spanking) is virtually always wrong and I would say as much to an older child, I'm not sure I would say it to a child who is too young to have learned "social discretion" yet. What happens when child repeats this to her relatives? She's not ready to have a confrontation over this and its really not going to be a good scene. And if you wanted to have a confrontation over this I assume you have already done so. I think "we don't hit in this family" is strong enough to get your values across but not likely to create a negative situation down the line.

And Angela is right -- clearly this is going to happen again so you need to figure out what you are going to tell your child, what (if anything) you want to say to others, and how you are going to handle it when they are all at your house sometime. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was past this by now?

[WuWei]

Georgia, I don't believe that the constructs of "right" and "wrong" as a moral judgment have any usefulness to conflict resolution or problem solving. Nor do I make statements of moral absolutes to our son, or elsewhere. I trust that he has his own moral compass and can discern what feels right or wrong to him. I choose to model consideration of other's needs and he has learned that from our actions, rather than our words. I just saw a quote that 95% of everything we learn is from what we observe, rather than what we are told. (I can't find the quote at the moment) But, the gist was our actions speak louder than our words.

I prefer to make statements about my observations of other's feelings and needs, as expressed by them, rather than as I believe they "deserve" to be treated. I model honoring the validity of one's *own* expression of dissent or consent, rather than stating that someone "deserves" to be treated in xyz manner, as determined by me. Do you see that the locus of control for what is "ok" isn't mine, but the person who is impacted, in both my beliefs and my actions, to the best of my awareness.

I don't choose to embrace an external locus of "right" and "wrong", by ME (or any other "judge/moral authority"). A child or adult's *consent* is the influence on my actions when my actions could impact them. I trust that mutually agreeable solutions can be created, so that "right" and "wrong" perspectives aren't relevant or necessary to declare or define.

Pat

[libranbutterfly]

It was not my MIL, it was her brothers wife (Brandy's grandma) MIL knows my stance, as do all close family members,

[425lisamarie]

I feel for my son, who is 2.5, saying hitting is !!WRONG!! is much clearer than to try and explain/model/tell him that people have choices and feelings/sometimes a person gets angry, one person feels it's acceptable at such and such a time...etc, etc. If anyone were ever to lay a hand on him, he is going to know beyond a shadow of a doubt "That is WRONG!!" He has never been without myself or DH unless it is with my mom, who is probably even more protective than we are if that could be....but, we've had a talk about strangers and that kind of thing.

There are certain things that ARE wrong. Maybe as adults we should be careful when addressing such behaviors so as not to offend those we are trying to model good behavior for and so on; but for my children, if someone does something that is wrong, I want them to know it, not try and sort through the conversation we had about how sometimes it seems "ok" to someone to spank, or sometimes grown up "lashes out....", so and so's mommy was just tired and stressed, etc, etc. Hitting is wrong period, and you'd better believe it any child of mine knows the word wrong applies to hitting.

I think some things should be clear as the blue sky

[alegna]

Originally Posted by 425lisamarie

I feel for my son, who is 2.5, saying hitting is !!WRONG!! is much clearer than to try and explain/model/tell him that people have choices and feelings/sometimes a person gets angry, one person feels it's acceptable at such and such a time...etc, etc. If anyone were ever to lay a hand on him, he is going to know beyond a shadow of a doubt "That is WRONG!!" He has never been without myself or DH unless it is with my mom, who is probably even more protective than we are if that could be....but, we've had a talk about strangers and that kind of thing.

There are certain things that ARE wrong. Maybe as adults we should be careful when addressing such behaviors so as not to offend those we are trying to model good behavior for and so on; but for my children, if someone does something that is wrong, I want them to know it, not try and sort through the conversation we had about how sometimes it seems "ok" to someone to spank, or sometimes grown up "lashes out....", so and so's mommy was just tired and stressed, etc, etc. Hitting is wrong period, and you'd better believe it any child of mine knows the word wrong applies to hitting.

I think some things should be clear as the blue sky

:



-Angela

[paint-the-moon]

Originally Posted by 425lisamarie

Hitting is wrong period, and you'd better believe it any child of mine knows the word wrong applies to hitting.

I think some things should be clear as the blue sky

And another ...

[georgia]

Georgia, I don't believe that the constructs of "right" and "wrong" as a moral judgment have any usefulness to conflict resolution or problem solving. Nor do I make statements of moral absolutes to our son, or elsewhere. I trust that he has his own moral compass and can discern what feels right or wrong to him. I choose to model consideration of other's needs and he has learned that from our actions, rather than our words. I just saw a quote that 95% of everything we learn is from what we observe, rather than what we are told. (I can't find the quote at the moment) But, the gist was our actions speak louder than our words.

I prefer to make statements about my observations of other's feelings and needs, as expressed by them, rather than as I believe they "deserve" to be treated. I model honoring the validity of one's *own* expression of dissent or consent, rather than stating that someone "deserves" to be treated in xyz manner, as determined by me. Do you see that the locus of control for what is "ok" isn't mine, but the person who is impacted, in both my beliefs and my actions, to the best of my awareness.

I don't choose to embrace an external locus of "right" and "wrong", by ME (or any other "judge/moral authority"). A child or adult's *consent* is the influence on my actions when my actions could impact them. I trust that mutually agreeable solutions can be created, so that "right" and "wrong" perspectives aren't relevant or necessary to declare or define.

Pat

Pat, while I completely agree that moralistic judgements do not faciliate communication, I think you might be misunderstanding what I was asking how what you believe could be based on someone else's belief system? But, anyway...I'm fine with feeling confused at this point I'm not much interested in saying, "People who use violence as a discipline tool are bad." Instead, I'm trying to communicate the idea that I value (and hold dear) peaceful methods in resolving conflicts---despite what anyone else believes. I also believe strongly that all people "deserve" to have their basic needs met, needs that are not dependent on anyone else's judgement.

ITA that learning occurs mainly from observation, but then again, each person has a different learning style, so a particular percentage probably isn't very helpful anyway.

To be more clear, when I see hitting I'm not running around saying, Bad! Wrong! Evil!, etc. Quite the opposite. I'm more interested in helping my children process the violence they might see out in the real world as it applies to people's needs and inviolate human rights. But, in the end, I still believe hitting is wrong and ineffective and hurtful. Hey, that's me

[Chanley]

We have seen public occasions of spanking. If I think someone is going to spank thier kid while we are hanging out, I ask them a. NOT to hit thier kids in my house. (I have had a friend take it to her van) or b. WE leave.

There is nothing more humiliating than being hit in front of people. I know, I have been there. My parents would pop me one in front of anyone.

I do have a dialogue with my kids. I just point out the situation. My statements follow something like this:

"We use our hands for helping, right?" "Yeah we do not use our hands to hit people. Hitting hurts other people."

THere have been occasions where I have had to bend down and say close to the back of my dd's head, "I am SOOO happy we do not choose to do that. Look how sad that kid looks." Then I will usually hug my own kid.

I use moralistic judgements all of the time for teaching. I think it is my job to instill within my kids some concepts of social constructs that are outdated and do not work anymore. There is a better way, some folks just have not found it. So when I am talking to the people still hitting thier kids, I do not talk about spanking. I just talk about it to my own kids. If the spanker brings it up, I just say, "I have never found an occasion where I felt spanking would be the right choice for the situation."

[mamaduck]

I'm sorry this happened. I think handling it after the fact is especially difficult with such a young child. It absolutely does need to be addressed, but the words you choose need to be short and to the point, because she is just two years old, and her ability to process the incident is limited by her relative lack of experience.

My children witnessed a spanking when they were 2 and 6. It was really more of a case of blatant child abuse, actually. They were both in tears. I found it much easier to process with the 6 year old -- especially the whole concept of choices and differences between families.

What I said to the 2 year old was this, "We do not hit children. We will not hit you. It was not fair when that Daddy hit his boy. Daddy's are not for hitting." I think it made an impression -- he chanted "Daddy's are not for hitting" like a mantra for the rest of the day. And he demanded a lot of extra snuggles and loves from HIS daddy that day too.

The moment is past, and hindsight is 20-20, but it might have helped all the kids to say something to Grandma in the moment. It would have been really awkward and very hard on her, I realize. But I think something short and to the point might have helped the kids, such as, "Don't hit children!" or "Hitting hurts." Or "Grandma's are for loving, not for hitting." It would have been good for the kids to see the behavior challenged. OTOH -- I'm sure she feels a sense of entitlement, like most adults do in our culture, and disintigrating into a battle of wills in front of the children would have made things even more confusing for them. I definately use comments like this when I think the adult will recognize the problem they have created.