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Spinoff: Would you distance yourself from (or disown) your child for circumcising? - Page 2

post #21 of 106
Speaking as a disowned child, OF COURSE I could NEVER inflict such hurt on my child! I hope they make the right decisions, especially when itcomes to other people's genitals (where it isn't really making a decision, but respecting the right of the owner of the genitals to make the decision), and they will definitely know I strongly disapprove, but I cannot imagine ever being that hurtful to my children.

A parent's love and affection is a birthright. Nothing should be able to negate that.
post #22 of 106
Thread Starter 
I'm confused with all of these replies saying "My love is unconditional"

My question had nothing to do with how much you love your children or if you'd stop loving them.

I'd ask if you'd distance yourself from them. You can still love someone you distance yourself from.

Honestly, while I would still love them, I'd never look at them the same way again and I would lose all respect I have for them because I know they would be well educated on the subject. And that's how I feel about anyone who is educated and chooses to do it. Because they KNOW what they're doing is cosmetic and doesn't benefit the baby, it benefits THEM. And doing something surgically to your kids because you think it's aesthetically pleasing is horrible. And not something I'd respect you for.

I would still love them and see them and visit with the kids, but all those nice parent things you do for your children when they have kids? I'd never do them. Those are reserved for someone I respect, not someone who hacked off a piece of someone else's body because of THEIR sexual preferences. And I won't lie, I'd leave them significantly less in my will than I'd originally planned. I'd donate it to NOCIRC or DOC and I'd leave in the will exactly why.

And just out of idle curiousity, I wonder if these answers would be the same if I asked "Would you distance/disown your child for circumcising your granddaughter". I'm hoping not.
post #23 of 106
Just wondering, seriously wondering here....what if anything could your child do to undermine your unconditional love? Speaking to anyone who wants to answer here.

Personally, I can think of any number of things that my children could do that would seriously affect the way I feel towards them. For example, if my child murdered someone, or became something horrible like a drug dealer or terrorist, or became abusive towards a partner, or a child molester, or raped someone, or sexually molested their sibling....at that point, I'm fairly certain I can say that my love would no longer be unconditional. I could easily see cutting such a person out of my life if it was clear to me that s/he was not capable of repentence and reform.

Say you're the mother of the son who recently killed his father and stashed him in the trunk of a car -- you really think you're still going to love and support your child unconditionally at that point? If so, you're a much bigger and stronger person than I am.

And bringing it back on topic....say your child marries someone from a cultural tradition that insists on FGM, and takes your granddaughter out of the country to be circed. Still feel the same way? Unconditional love and support?

My love for my children now is unconditional, but at some point children become moral actors who have responsibility for the consequences of their own decisions, and sometimes the consequences of those decisions affect the feelings of the people closest to them.
post #24 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi. View Post
I'm confused with all of these replies saying "My love is unconditional"

My question had nothing to do with how much you love your children or if you'd stop loving them.

I'd ask if you'd distance yourself from them. You can still love someone you distance yourself from.
I answered your question. I believe that a necessary component of parental love is affection. I believe that real love is a two-way thing. My parents insist they still love me, but they limit contact severely and insult me, my marriage and my family whenever there is contact. That is not love. That is manipulation. To say you love someone but to withold affection because they made a bad (wrong, evil, whatever) choice is to turn that being a loving relationship into being a coercive and/or manipulative relationship. And ultimately, in many cases, it becomes a non-existant relationship.

I'm sorry if this is too blunt or too off topic, but trust me, I know what I'm talking about here.
post #25 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potty Diva View Post
No, I would not disown my child for making a decision they felt in their heart was the best course of action for their child and though I would disagree with it, I would still love and honor their decisions, which are personal and none of my business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTail View Post
I'd love & honor THEM, but I fart in the general direction of any decision to genitally mutilate a child! It's not 'personal'; the child's genitals are personal. To the owner.

The rhetoric of 'it's a personal decision' galls the living hell out of me. Horsefeathers, I say. You can't even 'decide' whether your kid will eat their bowl of farina in the morning, how do you have the right to decide to cut off part of their genitals?
Thank you, TigerTail, for making this important distinction!

I will always love my son, but if he abuses his children I will loose a great deal-if not all-respect for him. I'd feel the same way if he took a kitchen shears to his daughter's labia.

Jen
post #26 of 106
I might have to emotionally distance myself for a period of time while I grieved for what my grandchild lost, but I would try to understand the decision so that I could heal that rift that I'd feel. I'd never disown my child for any decision, and my love for my child is absolutely unconditional. Even if my child became a "monster." I've had to think about this a lot, considering the things that people in my family have done to me and others - often at least in part due to severe mental illness. My children may also end up mentally ill, and I had to come to terms with the possibilities that they would commit the same atrocious acts as others in my family have. I wouldn't have given birth if I didn't know that I would love my children no matter what they did.
post #27 of 106
And being an old AlAnon 12 stepper, I also know that I can distance myself from someone's abusive actions if necessary & still not stop loving them. It was the 'disown' part I suppose I was answering more- sometimes distance is necessary.

If my child grew up to steal from me, I'd put physical distance there & protect my own interests- I've no desire to allow abuse; but I wouldn't stop loving them or hoping they had a moral turn-around.

I'd do what I legally could do to protect my grandchildren. And I'd be the consoling arms if they were not strong enough to oppose a mutilating partner, & needed to cry their regrets.
post #28 of 106
Of course your post has a lot of wisdom, TT, I'm just not sure how it translates to the circ context. I guess I would certainly not be emotionally available to my daughter during labor/birth/PP if she intended to circ her son--I'd really be more concerned with preventing the circ from occuring than with supporting her. But on a long-term level, I'm not sure how distancing oneself (other than refusing to support the circ) would be helpful, or even what formit would take?

If my DD is stealing from me, then distance, or meeting places other than my home, or other measures would be justified, but with circ--well, once it is done, sadly, it is done. :
post #29 of 106
Yeah, it was not a perfect analogy (I seem to be doing that lot these days!)

I hope it is never something I need to pursue my feelings about.
post #30 of 106
I would be incredibly disappointed in my children if they circumcised their children. Very, very disappointed and surely very, very saddened. But I wouldn't distance myself from my child, they're still my child regardless of the bad choices they make, and that would be my grandchild and I wouldn't want to lose either.
post #31 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture View Post
I will always love my son, but if he abuses his children I will loose a great deal-if not all-respect for him. I'd feel the same way if he took a kitchen shears to his daughter's labia.
:
post #32 of 106
I wouldn't disown him, but I would be pretty upset if it was for no good reason, like his wife wanted him to or something like that. They would both hear it from me then!!! Hopefully, I will educate my son enough to love his body the way it is. And I would try to research more treatments if it were a medical issue, but ultimatly, it is all about what kind of situation he is in at the time.
post #33 of 106
Oh, I just understood. I thought this post was about my son being circ'd later in life--
Gotcha, I would be very upset if he decided to circ his son, yes. But couldnt disown my own child.
post #34 of 106
Ok, well besides unconditional love, I would never distance myself from my child and probably wouldn't even discuss the decision with him. Once he's an adult he's free to make his own choices and learn from them. I can only do so much educating after that, it's his call.

Our relationship would remain the same.
post #35 of 106
I would be seriously disturbed if any child of mine was being abusive to my grandchildren in any way. I consider MGM a gross abuse of a child and would treat it no differently than if I found out he/she was engaged in other types of physical or mental abuse w/ my grandkids.

I can't imagine that any child of mine would ever circ my grandsons, but it certainly would be quite destructive to our overall relationship if it did happen.
post #36 of 106
That would just break my heart if my son grew up and abused my grandbabies in any way (and circ is definitely abuse) I'm not worried he'd ever do that though!
post #37 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi. View Post
I would still love them and see them and visit with the kids, but all those nice parent things you do for your children when they have kids? I'd never do them. Those are reserved for someone I respect, not someone who hacked off a piece of someone else's body because of THEIR sexual preferences. And I won't lie, I'd leave them significantly less in my will than I'd originally planned.
post #38 of 106
Quote:
tie-dyed: If my DD is stealing from me, then distance, or meeting places other than my home, or other measures would be justified, but with circ--well, once it is done, sadly, it is done.

Stealing
from you warrants your distance, but stealing from your grandchildren does not??? :
post #39 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by kldliam View Post

Stealing
from you warrants your distance, but stealing from your grandchildren does not??? :
No, not at all. What gave you that impression?

I was not talking about which offense is worse but about which offense I can prevent from recurring by taking action.

Please re-read my posts carefully before attacking me further, since you clearly read them too quickly the first time and missed the gist of what was said.
post #40 of 106
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