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Spinoff: Would you distance yourself from (or disown) your child for circumcising? - Page 4

post #61 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Not semantics at all, IMO, but a question of who holds responsibility for your feelings.

Your child may circ your grandchild because they convert to a different religion, new information is found (doubtful but you never know what's going to happen), or for some other reason dear to their heart that you may either not understand, or that you may understand and know to be wrong but they feel it is right.

The fact is, they are hurting their child, causing physical pain to their child. Your feelings as a result of that action are *your* feelings, not something they are doing to you.
I think you are reading too much into my choice of words.
post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Not semantics at all, IMO, but a question of who holds responsibility for your feelings.

Your child may circ your grandchild because they convert to a different religion, new information is found (doubtful but you never know what's going to happen), or for some other reason dear to their heart that you may either not understand, or that you may understand and know to be wrong but they feel it is right.

The fact is, they are hurting their child, causing physical pain to their child. Your feelings as a result of that action are *your* feelings, not something they are doing to you.
But what if they don't have "good" reasons? What if they circ just to look like daddy? Or beat their children? Or raise them to be racist homophobes? Are there any limits of your children's behavior towards their own children that would be enough to make you say "Enough. You may not do this with my support and love."?

If my child turns into a child abuser, then yep, I'm not going to be closely involved in my child's life any more. I highly doubt that will happen, but nobody in my life gets a free pass for child abuse. Nobody. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and condemn everyone else in the world for child abuse but give my own child a free pass.

I also think it's quite interesting how some people on this thread are among the most vociferous on other threads in terms of "Leave your dh! Cut off your relationships with your friends! Never talk to your sibling again!" but would stick by their circing children no matter what....
post #63 of 106
I think our relationships with our children are sacred and different from our other relationships. I think we hold a very special and powerful place in their psyches thru their whole lives and that is a responsibility we must take seriously.
post #64 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I think our relationships with our children are sacred and different from our other relationships. I think we hold a very special and powerful place in their psyches thru their whole lives and that is a responsibility we must take seriously.
It's true, sigh.

And beyond my feelings, my will to unconditionally love, etc- if I cut people out of my life, I lose the chance to convince them for the next child. Or their child. Or their... well, you get my drift, my parrot has decided to create a fracas & I cannot put any more words together thoughtfully, so I'll stop.
post #65 of 106
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Sometimes someone can hurt you so badly that it is just to painful to be around them. The distance may not necessarily punitive.
Exactly. That doesn't make my presence in their life conditional. Sometimes you just CAN'T be around someone - even if it's your kid. Or your own parent. I know there are choices my mothers made that has made me distance myself from her for a period of time. But I guess that means I don't love her unconditionally and her presence in my life is conditional huh?

And as for the jaw drop smiley at my response - why? Because I'd donate to charity instead of willing them as much as originally intended. Anyone who cuts someone else's body for their own purposes doesn't deserve my money, that is a horrible and heinous act not deserving of a reward I'm sorry. I refuse to leave a significant amount of money to someone that I do not respect. Even if that someone is my child. Other reasons I would not leave said child money: drug dealing/using, gambling, stealing, murdering, child abuse/neglect, sibling abuse/neglect.

So yeah, I'd either put the money in trust for their kids or donate it to a genital integirty charity.
post #66 of 106
And the distance may not be literal, as well. Sometimes distance is a result, not a choice. There are things that my unconditionally-loved children could do that would, in the natural course of events, cause an emotional distance between us, whether I will it or no.

(I gave my bird a cracker, it's quiet here again. )
post #67 of 106
Thread Starter 
I agree with that as well, I could definitely see my (hypothetical) pro-circ child not wanting to be around me after circing because they feel they might be judged or I might say something they don't like etc al.
post #68 of 106
I would feel very hurt and not understand, and I may feel like I did not know my son anymore or had been slapped in the face. It may take me some time to get over it, and it may occasionally cause me feelings of sorrow and inadequacy...but there is no way that I would disown my child or distance myself from him for any reason short of him brutally murdering someone, and even in that case I'm not sure I could turn from him and stop loving him.
post #69 of 106
Nope
post #70 of 106
.
post #71 of 106
Well I have no girls, yet i hope to have one someday, 1 is cut 1 is not DH is restoring, so by the time they have kids, the at the rate circ is dropping around here, I hope my cut one restores as well and does not cut his son. We will have the talks when he is old enough to understand, but if my DIL wants to cut, I will do my dam nest to prevent it. And If I had a girl like a lot said I will love my kids no matter what, and all I can do is steer them in the right direction, and hope they chose the right things to do.
post #72 of 106
Nope
post #73 of 106
Well, I know I have previously posted that I would indeed, disown my children if they did that to their child. However, as others have said, there is a difference between outright disowning and distancing. So I guess I wouldnt disown them, but I would find it extremely difficult to be around them and I dont think I would look at them the same again.
And I am not afraid to say that while my love is pretty much unconditional for my children, I woudnt stand by them in many cases-like if they raped, murdered, abused, etc. In fact, I would help convict them if I knew something. No one-not even my own children-deserves to get away with something like that. (I'm talking about something like, say, my kid came home with blood all over his/her shirt or something...I would testify that this happened).
However, I will admit that I have kind of a messed up sense of love or something...I hate my mother and couldnt care less what happens to her, so obviously something went wrong there.
I highly doubt any of my grandbabies will be circ'd anyway though concidering that A-they know how harmful it is and know that their dad is very mad about his being circ'd and B-its illegal in Finland!
post #74 of 106
Morals, Values and Ethics = Character

The real question here is:

Would you distance yourself from your child if he/she grew up with a/any morals, values or ethics that were extremely disturbing to you. Insert mgm or anything else here that makes you uncomfortable or nauseous.

How about rape?

How about other sick crimes?

How about if they lied, or cheated or stole from people?

How about this?

How about that?

Where do YOU draw the line with your loyalty towards someone you love who lets you down in a very serious way? Everyone has a line so I'd like some honest answers here please. Then perhaps we can all talk about how disturbing YOUR line is.
post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsNemesis View Post
And I am not afraid to say that while my love is pretty much unconditional for my children, I woudnt stand by them in many cases-like if they raped, murdered, abused, etc. In fact, I would help convict them if I knew something. No one-not even my own children-deserves to get away with something like that. (I'm talking about something like, say, my kid came home with blood all over his/her shirt or something...I would testify that this happened).
Oh good gracious, I hope no one thought I'd hide my hypothetical serial killer kid in the basement or something! I wouldn't lie to protect an evil act, that would be a crime against justice.

Love & support don't require deceit- in court, or about genital mutilation.
post #76 of 106
Is it just me, or is this whole business of disowning a little odd? I don't own my child, any more than I own decisions about her genitals. My parents didn't own me, even before they "disowned" me.

Just had to say....
post #77 of 106
Good point.
post #78 of 106
I'd always love my children but I'd be just as mad at them as if I found out they abused their children in any other way.
post #79 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tie-dyed View Post
Is it just me, or is this whole business of disowning a little odd? I don't own my child, any more than I own decisions about her genitals. My parents didn't own me, even before they "disowned" me.

Just had to say....
I understand the sentiment here, and I am not trying to be a smart alec, but one of the definitions of disown is "to repudiate any connection or identification with" which is what I believe the OP meant.
post #80 of 106
or maybe she meant "prevent deliberately (as by making a will) from inheriting." Ok now *I* am getting into semantics...I'm off to bed.
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