Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › I'm confused....maybe I should try....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

I'm confused....maybe I should try....  

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I'm confused about some things. Well, maybe I should just state what I **want** in my home and maybe you can help me with this?


1. I want my kids to obey us. I don't mean I just want to stand around and bark orders. I don't mind explaining WHY, but I do want them to do something when I ask them to do it. (i.e. pick up your toys, don't leave your coat on the floor, please dust the table)

2. I want my kids to be respectful to us and to each other. I don't want them to backsass. When they answer us or each other in a disrespectful or mean way, I say: "What's a better way we could say that?"

(yikes! cooking emergency! be right back!)
post #2 of 14
Here are a few threads that might help:

How to handle disrespect:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

A little bit of obedience, please!
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

Parental Authority:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

When unquestioning obedience is important:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

The urge to "assert my authority":
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience


Again, you might find Grace Based Discipline at Gentle Christian Mothers to be in line with your expectations for obedience.




HTH, Pat
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
OK more things that I need/want in my home:

3. I want my boys to do their schoolwork. (We homeschool.) It's okay to make mistakes and it's okay to ask for help. It is not cool to outright REFUSE to do schoolwork. I give them short bursts of seatwork and plenty of "breaks" and active stuff to do. My 6 yr old is all about CAN'T, WON'T when it comes to schoolwork. But when he finally decides to do it, he CAN do it, and most of the time does a fine job. I try to be playful with him (i.e. let him read to me in his "stuffed animal" voice) and I try to give him choices ("Would you like to do your practice work first or your math first?" "Do you want to do religion work in the morning or the afternoon?") But the reality is that we have to have SOME structure. I think unschooling is a fine option, for those of you that choose that. But I do need them to do their seatwork. I need some structure in our school day. I need my kids to sit down and do their schoolwork when I say it's time to do it.

4. Attitude. Important. Very important.

We all have bad days. We all have attitudes at times. I'd be lying if I said I like to get up every morning. I don't. I am a classic night owl. If someone wakes up grumpy, I don't force him to smile and act chipper. However, I do want him to act civil to me and to his siblings. It's okay if he says, "Please leave me alone right now, I'd like to be alone." It's not okay if he says, "Errrrrrgh! I don't wanna talk to you, you stupid brother, worst in the world!"
post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Here are a few threads that might help:

How to handle disrespect:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

A little bit of obedience, please!
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

Parental Authority:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

When unquestioning obedience is important:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience

The urge to "assert my authority":
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=obedience


Again, you might find Grace Based Discipline at Gentle Christian Mothers to be in line with your expectations for obedience. http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...discipline.php




HTH, Pat

Thank you for the links. I will read them later today.
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
5. Food (this probably falls under disrespectfulness)

I am a picky eater, even now in my late 30's. We don't have food battles here at all. If someone doesn't want to eat something, it's okay. It is NOT okay to pitch a complete whiny fit because you don't like what's being served. It is okay to eat only what you like. It is okay to ask for or make yourself a PB&J sandwich. (eveyone here likes those!)


**********************************************

I 've been reading over some responses to my earlier posts. I think maybe I differ in philosophy. I am cool with not spanking. I just cannot understand the "no punishment" philosophy. (I am stating my opinion; I am not making a judgment against anyone here, please know that.) I cannot run a consensual household; I need certain things done. Though I am open to some compromise...and definitely open to explaining WHY....there are just certain things that need to be.

Thank you for listening and thank you in advance for suggestions.
post #6 of 14
Are you wanting advice on these issues or just wanting to know what others think of your expectations?
post #7 of 14
I am a big believer in finding time to connect with each child every day to solve a lot of these problems. I have a hard time playing with my kids, but I do somehow try to do it most everyday. I set the timer for 15 minutes and will just sit down and play trains or blocks with my 2 year old. For him, especially, this time goes a LONG way towards good behavior the rest of the day. For my 7 year old, we will sometimes play board games (which is hard to do unless his younger brother is sleeping) or I will chat with him or try to understand Pokemon or his latest game that he is into (I don't use the timer with him). Sometimes we do crafts together. You get the idea.

For my older ds, I really think he NEEDS chores and responsibilities to feel good about himself. So, we have a chore list on the fridge. I list 7 chores for the week. Each day, he picks one, does it and then crosses it off.

I do reward him for doing his chore and homework (I don't homeschool, so I can't really address that, but he does have homework almost every day). He can play a computer game or play his gameboy AFTER he has done his hw (as long as it is after 3:00 pm or he'd do hw first thing on the weekend and be gaming all day). We had hw struggles last year until we made this rule. We haven't had one problem with hw since school started in Sept.

Food issues - my 7 year old is a little on the picky side. I do try to have at least one thing on the dinner table that I know he likes. Sometimes that doesn't happen and he is welcome to make himself a sandwich or have a piece of fruit, but he is responsible for serving himself in those cases. Our standing rule is that I make ONE meal. If anyone is not happy with that meal, they are welcome to fend for themselves.

As far as punishment or consequences go - I really try to enforce natural consequences. i.e. If you make a mess on purpose, you clean it up (my 2 year old is really the only one who makes messes on purpose, and I do enlist his help in cleaning up). But, I do use time-outs some. I just don't find the arguements against them convincing and time-outs do work in my house. My 7 year old seldom gets a time out, but when he does it's for attitude. His last one was about 6 months ago - I don't even remember what he said, but it was something nasty at the dinner table about the meal I had made. My 2 year old gets time-outs for spitting and hitting. It tried it the other way (without punishments) and it just did not work and those behaviors got out of control. And, I don't buy the arguement that it will damage him - lol. I think that kids left out of control with no consequences for their actions do not learn how to take responsibility for their actions. That is truly damaging in my opinion. But, I don't want to debate time-outs here. I've done the reading and come to my own conclusions.

As far as obeying goes - I really think that having a routine set up so that kids know what to expect each day is the big thing here. I generally don't spring things on my kids. So, for example, with chores, ds1 knows exactly what is expected of him. I wouldn't just give him 5 chores to do one day before he could play computer games. If I want or need to make a change because what we are doing stops working, we sit down and talk about it together before a problem starts. Or, if a problem has already started, we talk about it in a non-emotional time. Since he was about 4, we've been able to solve most issues that way. The hw rule above was actually his idea and it has worked beautifully.

So, if I were in your shoes, and I had a problem with one son calling the other "stupid brother, the worst in the world", in the moment, I would remind him that that was disrespectful and ask if there was a better way he could say that. Then I would drop it at that time, as long as he didn't keep going with it. Later, that day, when he is in a good mood, I would sit down with him and talk about insults and hurting feelings, etc. I would ask him how he thinks he can keep from insulting his brother in the future. Then, when the two of you come to a decision, I would hold him to his word. If he calls his brother stupid again, I would remind him of it. If it became a real persistant problem, I would give him time-outs. But, things don't usually get that far in our house with my 7 year old.

Anyway, that got long - Sorry! Maybe there is at least one little thing you can use in all of that - lol!
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Are you wanting advice on these issues or just wanting to know what others think of your expectations?
Advice on gentle techniques to carry out these expections.
post #9 of 14
I'm willing to give this a shot, but we do differ in philosophy, which makes it hard. The foundation for GD, in my experience, has been a shift in my assumptions/expectations/paradigm/whatever you want to call it. I'm sort of taking your request as a challenge, which is fun -- but skeptical as to how helpful it will be. (I do think you'd like the gentle christian mothers forums that Pat recommended.)

Quote:
1. I want my kids to obey us.
I call it "cooperate" instead of "obey." Functionally, the results look the same. In terms of felt respect, I think that we experience it differently.

We have an agreed upon "way" for doing this, and it works because DH and I answer to these same rule, or sets of expecations, and the kids have bought into it. If someone is asked to do something, and they don't want to do it, they can question/challenge the "asker." But they may not walk away, and they may not ignore. So if I ask my son to pick up his toys, the expectation is that he will either do it, or tell my why he doesn't want to do it and have a conversation with me about it. If he does not respond in one of those two ways, I remind him about the "way" we do things around here, and I remind him that I listen to him when he asks something of me.

Generally speaking, the boys find it easier to do what they are asked than to engage in a long disscussion about why they don't want to! On the rare occassion that it does become a big discussion, I am either able to convince them, or they are able to convince me. And yes, sometimes I decide that I can back down.

Quote:
2. I want my kids to be respectful to us and to each other. I don't want them to backsass. When they answer us or each other in a disrespectful or mean way, I say: "What's a better way we could say that?"
That strikes me as perfectly reasonable. This is about personal boundries. There is no need to let our kids mistreat us just because they are our kids.

Quote:
3. I want my boys to do their schoolwork.
I was homeschooled, by my parents did not GD. Not by any stretch. It was traumatic to grow up in a household where we could be punished or spanked for not doing our work. And our relationship with our mom was constantly impacted by power struggles surrounding school work.

My own kids go to school, but even with just homework, I refuse to make it a fight with them. I help them with time, space, and organization. I keep them company. I give help when it is asked for, but I do not fight. If it doesn't get done -- then fine. Their choice. Their responsiblity. So much of the learning process occurs in spheres that are separate from their actual "seatwork." I have perfect confidence that they will get what they need educationally, whether they are forced to do it in the perscribed way or not.

The only thing I can suggest is to look for ways to increase independence. I remember what finally "worked" for me was to have index cards for each school work task, and to move them to the back of the file box as I completed them. It removed the power struggle, by giving me an agenda to focus on instead of constant demands from my mom.

For your 6 yo. -- you might do some reading about montessori methods. He might do better with educational manipulatives, as opposed to pencil and paper work.

Quote:
4. Attitude. Important. Very important.
Eh, well..... I think any group of people living together needs to pretty constantly forgive each other on this one. Its hard to have a constructive attitude all the time. I know I can't do it. Its fine to set boundries, and ask for respectful treatment (see above) but just by living with each other day in and day out -- you get to see each other's bad sides pretty often. We learn to tolerate and forgive a certain level, and voice our feelings when the limits are crossed. Does that make any sense?

Also, mom's attitude will often set the pace for the day. Its worthwhile to check yourself when you notice a problem with the kid's attitude. Does that make sense? If you make step up to the plate with good cheer, playfullness, etc. -- they will often follow suit.

Plus, they need to get enough sleep, enough fresh air, enough healthy food, enough exersize, etc... and all that affects attitude profoundly. So, really, a lot of it is your responsibility to facilitate.

Your food plan sounds fine. I don't see a problem there. And it doesn't sound like you are having a problem??
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theirmomjayne View Post

I 've been reading over some responses to my earlier posts. I think maybe I differ in philosophy. I am cool with not spanking. I just cannot understand the "no punishment" philosophy. (I am stating my opinion; I am not making a judgment against anyone here, please know that.) I cannot run a consensual household; I need certain things done.
Just wanted to say, that "no punishment" does not necessarily equal consensual. You can be non-punitive and have clear expectations.
We don't do punishment, but we are not consensual, per se. It probably looks like it most of the time, but we aren't.
For me, it makes more sense that ds will be more cooperative and considerate if I don't intentionally do things that will make him feel bad. But there are situations where I don't have a problem with coersion (our main one is toothbrushing, and the coersion is telling him that I expect him to come get his teeth brushed, whether he likes it or not- I don't say it like that)
post #11 of 14
I agree with a lot of what mamaduck said. Your list is almost identical to the list that I want to work on and our philosophies seem fairly similar. We don't homeschool, but I have had to do a lot of work with DS1 on homework and getting him organized.

What I've found, with school work, is that DS1 *wants* to do well in school. He's calmer and more focused when he knows he's got all of his work done. I'm the same with my job - it's stressful and intense, but I handle the stress much better when I'm organized and on top of things. DS and I used to fight about homework (he tends to throw major tantrums, even at 9 yo, when he's frustrated), but it dawned on me one day that I was failing in my job of teaching him ways to stay on top of his work. At 28, I have developed these skills, but my 9yo hasn't yet.
Once I stopped focusing on the end result (doing homework) and started focusing on just my part - making sure there was a place for him to do work (clean kitchen counter, for us), sorting through the "parents folder" in his binder, making sure I gave him lunch money and permission slips on time, etc. - the rest fell into place. When I put all the responsibility on him, it didn't work, but when we shared responsibility, he stepped up and did his part with very little fuss.
post #12 of 14
I agree with the responses so far too
post #13 of 14
Most children do listen to their parents though at certain stages they need a reason first and for some tasks that they view as a nightmare (like picking up a lot of toys) they need help or they have tantrums. They may need more specific directions like what to do with their coat and it also helps if they see you putting your coat somewhere and picking up your things.

As for the way they talk to you, like most things you must model how you want them to talk to you by talking to them and the people around you politely. If you yell at them, snap at them, or "talk back" to them when they talk to you or ask you a question (i.e. snap "because" at them when they ask you why they should do something) that is how they will talk to you. Children are like sponges and learn how to behave from the adults in their life because they didn't come with a book that they could read telling them how to please their parents. You must model how to treat others and behave and give them time to absorb this. You should also make allowances for bad days since you will also have your fair share of them.
post #14 of 14
Not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't understand all the want for obedience. I do not obey anyone in my life, and I wouldn't want to impose my decisions on other people either, even with an explanation. In our lives we can't force or order anyone to do anything, not really. For me it is all about trying to sway other people to my point of view so that they will make the decision that I have taught them to think is best (this includes kids, spouse, coworkers, waiters, and strangers). I feel if you teach them to obey, you will decide how they live untill they are 10 or 11 at which point you get a massive teenage rebellion, if you teach them to decide, you get to influence them forever.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Gentle Discipline
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › I'm confused....maybe I should try....