Just had the BF argument with SIL

[dentente]

I could not help myself. I feel a bit of brute now. I tried. I really did. She formula fed all three of her other kids. She flatly refused to consider BF but listened to my spiel anyway. I tried really hard not to come down hard on formula in her presence. Then she suddenly tried BF with her new baby and I got so excited and happy for her. But when she quit after just four days of trying BF and refused an LC or any help I was so sad for her and that baby and I said so. She went nuts. How dare I be sad for her or that baby! Formula is not poison! Etc! Breastfeeding is so inconvenient and it's gross and it hurts! Blah, blah, blah!

I told her I thought she was a great parent. She really is. I just told her I don't agree that formula is just as good. I think it's second best at the very best for many reasons. I told her that she had a technique problem because BF does not hurt if it's done right. I told her to not ask for help was essentially to doom the effort. She's 3500 miles away so I could not be there to cock this up in person.

I should have just shut up. Now she hates me.

(sniffle) Okay, Whining done.

Denny

[Mommiska]

that sounds difficult. It can be so difficult to know what is best to say (or not say).

I dont' understand why saying that you are sorry breastfeeding didnt' work out is offensive? : But I guess there can be a lot of guilt wrapped up in choosing to formula feed, so perhaps it's a self-protective thing to say that formula is just as good?

I'm sure you guys will work things out...I'm sorry that things are difficult now, though.

[dentente]

Thanks Carolyn. She just sent me an e-mail where she says I am cruel and heartless to say formula feeding is not as good. I am so sad she feels I was heartless. I should have just said nothing.

It's not poison. McNuggets aren't poison. I don't feed those to my kid either I guess I just feel strongly that every child should be breastfed for a least some period of time before the formula starts flowing. It makes me so sad that many babies will never have it. I guess that's life in the modern world. I am very surprised at the depth of my feelings on this issue.

Denny

[alexa07]

I think the best thing in these situations is to remember how it feels when someone says something against AP (like co-sleeping)

Ya know how they can send you articles about how the American Academy of Pediatricians is against it? And it drives you NUTS. Like how would you feel, if they said "I am so sad for you that you are not protecting your baby by putting her in a crib!"

Well, just try to keep that in mind and try not to say anything about that which you don't agree!!!!!!

[Piglet68]

I'm sorry that you have gone through this experience. I know your heart goes out to your nephew/neice. You tried, and you should feel good about that. She has made her decision now, and she won't understand how you feel. She'll just get hurt. I hope you can put this behind you and make up some day.

And....I'm going to move this to the Support and Advocacy forum as I think it's more appropriate topic there.

[mom3]

I think her anger comes from being defensive because she KNOWS you are right about bfing being far superior to ABM in addition to her raging hormones (I know I was a basket case for the first couple of weeks after birth ). I feel the same way when I hear a mother say she won't bf. How can you not be sad for that baby when you know first hand how wonderful an experience it is? I would just give it some time. Most things like this work themselves out one way or another.

[ellery]

BF

I BELIEVE EVERYONE SHOULD GIVE IT AN HONEST TRY. BUT ALOT OF IT MAY BE LAZINESS OR "EW THATS GROSS" IS WHAT I GET ALOT. I FELT THE SAME BEFORE I DID IT IM GLAD I HAD A GOOD FRIEND TO HELP AND A SUPPORTIVE FAMILY. I TRY TO GET FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO TRY BUT I DONT PUSH. IF THEY WANT THE NASTY POOP AND PUKE, HAVING TO GET OUT OF BED GO TO THE KITCHEN AND ALL THAET OH WELL. U WERE RIGHT IN YIOUR FIGHT.

[Lucysmama]

I didn't breastfeed my daughter. Oh, we tried. I had a c-section with complications, and my dd got nipple confusion. (She was given bottles unbeknownst to us for 4 days in the hospital. ) We tried for weeks to get established. I ended up pumping and giving it to her in a bottle because I felt strongly about giving her BM and not formula. But I still felt like a failure.
I have often been subjected to judgemental BFing mothers' comments because they saw me with a bottle and assumed: formula.
It's a touchy situation with your SIL, and I would bet that she is feeling frustrated and like a failure because BFing didn't work out. And, I bet she knows that BM is best for babies. It says that on the formula cans!!! I am sure she is very hormonal, and under a lot of stress with so many demands in her life. I would say, after she calms down a bit, she will see that you were not intending to hurt her. But remarks like yours, however well-intended, can really sting when you are already beating yourself up inside.
Take it easy on us moms who fail at breastfeeding. It is a tough road to walk.
Katie

[dentente]

Thanks for that perspective. I am hoping some of it was her hormones. I stressed what a great parent I really think my SIL is. She seems to have missed that and the fact that I did not and do not see her as a failure. I see her as unsupported. Many women have trouble with it and indeed, I had a huge amount of trouble at the start. I actually struggled for months to get it to work as my dd was nipple-confused in the extreme. It's just not easy. I think if it were, more people would do it. KWIM?

It really makes me want to become an LC. Help should just appear. You know? The hospital should send round a certified LC for each birth. Why the heck don't they? The nurse I had who tried to help was no help in the end. She suggested I supplement.

*double sigh*

Denny

[1jooj]

And just a reminder, that sometimes it does hurt. I'd say it hurt for me for a few weeks--not just engorgement, but while ds was "growing into" my boobs.

It takes a lot for some women to make it. It is sad that she refused LC help, though, and I do agree that she is probably defensive because she is disappointed in herself, and thinks she isn't getting credit for giving it a try at all. That was a really big step, especially after she already knew how to do things with formula, and felt comfortable with bottles and such.

My hospital does give an automatic 30 minutes with an LC for every bfing mom, and it was totally covered by my HMO. It's true, though--there should be an LC fairy who swoops in. Especially a couple weeks in, when supply is being established and things sometimes get rough.

[Mothernature]

I had flat nipples and didn't know what flat nipples were until I had dd and had such a hard time getting her to latch on without extreme pain to me. After weeks of struggling with it, I finally surmounted that hurdle only to find myslef with a breast infection. What a major drag. Well, I'm nothing if not stubborn. I really didn't see formula as an option. My family was supportive though. No one recommended that I just give her a bottle and I'm grateful for that. I didn't get any real help though and I can see how a less obstinant woman would cave under the pressure.

On the flip side of that, my uncle's wife had a baby 18 mos. ago and she had the same attitude about it. "It hurts," "It's too hard," I just thought she needed to know that others had overcome greater obstacles and perservered. I gave my testimony and the numbers of a lactation consultant and a LLL member. I told her that if she would like I would show her some other holds that might be more comfortable. In her case she just wanted any excuse to quit, but she wanted to be able to say she tried and it didn't work. It was a total cop out. I felt like a total heal, but I did bite my tongue when she told me she was giving up. I just figure, she is the mother and all I can do is lend my support. I can't force her and I don't want to make her feel guilty about her decision and ruin an already strained relationship.

I'm sorry you're in this position. Maybe you could apologize for coming on so strong. Explain that bfing is an issue you feel passionate about and you wanted to be supportive/empowering, not critical. If you put it in an email you can keep from rehashing it with her.

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

huuugs for u denny and katie.

i know all about nipple confusion. ds didnt learnt o latch on the right ay and nurse until he was almost 6 months old... my PIS was my best friend! ( used it 10 or more times a day)

[dentente]

Originally posted by Mothernature
Maybe you could apologize for coming on so strong. Explain that bfing is an issue you feel passionate about and you wanted to be supportive/empowering, not critical. If you put it in an email you can keep from rehashing it with her.

I did. Almost immediately. She "never wants to see or hear from me again". I am "heartless for putting down her choice to formula feed". She followed that with a character assasination of my husband (her BIL) just for good measure though he was in no way involved in the fracas. She seemed so drastically mental that I have to just hope it will blow over.

*sigh*

For some reason I tend to question myself when things like this happen but after really looking at it hard I know I did nothing wrong. I did not call her a bad parent nor did I question her "right" to choose formula. I did question the nutritional value of formula because I know what it's made from and what is missing from it compared to breastmilk. I am slowly learning to just not say anything at all to a formula feeder. Just smile tightly and refrain from asking questions like "have you ever actually tasted formula?"

Denny

[Sofiamomma]

I was approached by a woman in a conventional grocery store the other day. She had a cart piled high with huge bags of apples, onions, potatoes, about 5 gallons of milk, jumbo boxes of cereal, etc. Well, of course, I just had to remark on her purchases. Was she cooking for a summer camp? She replied she had five children. Teenagers? sez I. A couple of them. She still had a baby, though not as young as mine. It was one of those rare times Ellie was actually in the sling. She was sleeping. I pulled aside the sling material so she could see her. She had her binky in her mouth! :LOL The other momma seemed to be one of those very sweet, gentle souls. She asked if I was still breastfeeding. Yes. She told me she breastfeeds hers until they are three. I smiled and told her dd1 was 3.3 when she weaned. She smiled back and made a comment about how good it was for them and started to launch into a spiel about the benefits of breastfeeding. I wasn't sure how to feel or respond. (I just smiled, and said something like And that's just what we know about). I felt like, You're preachin' to the choir! I found myself wondering whether she does this with all new mommas or was just drawn to me because of the sling and/or my friendly overtures. It bothered me a little and I am very pro-breastfeeding. I'm not sure why though, as she was very gentle and sincere. I wondered how other moms might respond. Then I wondered more about the best ways to communicate to other moms about the benefits of breastfeeding and how to get support and help. Your post just reminded me of all this. I am planning to open my own practice as an LC. Guess I'll just work on my little corner of the world. . .

[VenalAnatomica]

dentente

I think you were out of line.
If I had a rough time with breastfeeding and switched to formula...and I was a week pp....and someone told me they FELT SAD for my baby...I don't think they would be hearing from me again anytime soon either...good intentions or not.

Really...it's just that you said you FELT SAD for her baby that gets me.
You could have kept that to yourself.

[dentente]

Well, she quit 4 days in and that IS sad. Want me to lie and say "wonderful!"? That's just not me.

Perhaps it's best to drift away from people you can't speak your mind in front of. Maybe that's happened to you at one point.

Denny

[VenalAnatomica]

It's just my opinion.

I'm not saying it isn't sad
I'm not saying you should say it's wonderful...I said nothing like that.
I just tried to think back to what it was like those first few days post partum and how everything feels...and I'm merely stating how I would of felt if someone told me (at that sensitive time) they felt sad for my baby because of a choice I made.

I guess the word usage seems like that instead of trying to encourage her to continue breastfeeding you are trying to get in one last shot to make her feel guilty.

"I feel sad for your baby"
If someone said that to one of us for choices we have made we would be APPALLED! Especially if we were in such a tender place emotionally.

and I realize that you probably felt pretty much hopeless at that point since she refused a LC.

Anyway...I'm just trying to give you a different point of view.

[dentente]

Well, here's exactly waht I said.

"I'm sad for you and sad for Betty (the baby) that it did not work out. At least you tried. If you change your mind and want to give it another go, La Leche League can send someone round, someone certified, to show you how to breastfeed without pain. Breastfeeding is not intuitive for everyone and many people need help to do it without pain. Basically if you have an incorrect latch, it will hurt like the dickens and the baby gets almost no milk. Very frustrating, I know. It happened to me too."

That was my tone. She went bonkers. In retrospect I should have used a word other than sad but I was speaking from my heart, felt I knew my SIL well enough and hoped my words would encourage her to actually get some help. They didn't. I am anything but eloquent. This much is true. I think my SIL was looking for someone to tell her it was okay to give up and that will, sadly, never be me.

Denny

[moonfirefaery]

You go, girl.

You were just telling the truth, and I don't see why people get so upset with simply being told the facts--which are that breastfeeding, according to all research, is better.

[zen_monster]

[QUOTE=dentente]Breastfeeding is so inconvenient and it's gross and it hurts! Blah, blah, blah!

Lots of things about babies are "gross".... baby poop, snot suckers, drool, throw up, etc etc etc......

I'm tired of hearing about mom's not breastfeeding because it's inconvenient. Why bother having kids if they see them as an inconvenience.

Ok, maybe a little harsh, but I've spoken with so many moms who don't want to be bothered with breastfeeding. :