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Could you be friends with someone who CIO? - Page 2

post #21 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy_goer View Post
I can be friends with people who have different ideas about parenting. How distressing it would be to me would probably depend on how hard-core CIO they were. I certainly have friends who let their kids cry more than I do.



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same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KsMum View Post
I can't do CIO on my dd, just could not stand it, but I have some great friends who are wonderful mothers that have tried it, some with great success, some that didn't have success and stopped.
what is "success"?

i, fortunately, have not had this problem. most of my friends are intuitive and emotional people who would not be able to let their baby's need go unmet.
post #22 of 114
My best friend did CIO and we were still close until she moved away, but it definately affected us. I really admired alot of the rest of the way she parented, wore baby in backpack, no-circ., except for CIO pretty respectful of her children. I didn't see how CIO fit in with that. After awhile we just didn't talk about it after it was clear that I wasn't going to let dd CIO even though my friend thought I should. It worked out ok because once she knew my opinion she backed off and I knew her opinion and backed off.
post #23 of 114
Wow. CIO is very dangerous and terrible for a babies physical and emotional health. Some would call it child abuse. I would.
Purposefully not caring for your infant? That is what it is.

I am friends with people who have done this and do this. I do not stay at someones house while it is happening and I do not condone it. I am hopeful that they pick up other things from me- but I am not perfect and they have strengths in parenting that I don't have to.... but I would never think CIO was an ok thing for any parent or child to do.
post #24 of 114
Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.
post #25 of 114
I understand completely where you are all coming from in feeling very strongly about not doing CIO. I have to say that I think it is so important to respect others' choices, though. We can all have our opinions, but we bring so much of our own history to our role as parents. We also all have varying degrees of what we can handle in terms of sleep deprivation. The people I know who did CIO did so because they simply couldn't survive the sleep deprivation...and most did modified versions of it.

I would, of course, remain friends with folks who choose different parenting avenues than I do. Out right abuse, probably not. But CIO doesn't fall under that definition (I'm a social worker and there are very clear guidelines as to what qualifies as abuse).

I haven't been able to do CIO with my babies...however tempting! Sleep deprviation really kills me and I'm constantly trying different gentle methods. Because I struggle so much with sleep deprivation, I can really understand how desperate some feel to do anything to get more sleep.
post #26 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb36 View Post
I'm a social worker and there are very clear guidelines as to what qualifies as abuse.

so since you have the official book of what is right what is wrong makes it ok then since it's not "abuse."
post #27 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.
Exactly my feelings.
post #28 of 114
Of course! Just like I can be friends with Republicans and Catholics and people who live in cities and vegans and SUV-drivers. I am none of those things. I have made different choices about how to live my life and raise my daughter and I can't expect everyone, even the people I choose to be friends with, to make the same set of choices. My closest friends are country-living, earth-hugging, Solstice-celebrating, Democrats, but they aren't my only friends!
post #29 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Could I be...


Friendly? Yes.

Friends? That would depend on whether this was CIO-lite or Ezzo baby training.

Best friends? No, not during the time they were believers in CIO. Whether or not I intended it, my trust in that person's advice would be affected. On some level I just wouldn't understand them, or feel understood by them. My closest friends are kindred spirits, with basic values I understand.
Well said- I agree. It's not a question of judging someone for their choices, as though you're dumping them for choosing a nursery decorating style you don't like. It's more that once you feel your values are so fundamentally different, it's hard to feel close with that person any more. That's happening to me right now with an old friend who is due in February and plans to circ and CIO. I'm still hoping she'll change her mind on both, but even hearing her talk about it is upsetting to me. I'm not going to, like, break up with her, but I don't think the friendship will be as strong as it used to be if our basic parenting values are completely different. To me, parenting choices like CIO, circ, and even breastfeeding (barring cases where it was truly impossible for the mama) are tied up with ones fundamental values as a human being. There's only so close I can be with someone who doesn't share my basic sense of what's right and wrong in life.
post #30 of 114
I would lose so much respect for them that I wouldn't be able to be a caring, giving friend to them anymore. None of my friends did/do CIO, and if any who have kids in the future do, I will do everything in my power to stop them as I believe it to be serious child neglect, especially in newborns. It's not about being judgmental and live and let live, it's about a baby crying alone in a dark room, frightened because it's mother refuses to respond. I can't overlook that.
post #31 of 114
I'm friendly with the person that I know for a fact has done CIO but I'm not as close as I once was. Her CIO bothers me and I can't get around it but I haven't completely cut her out of my life either.
post #32 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BookGoddess View Post
I'm friendly with the person that I know for a fact has done CIO but I'm not as close as I once was. Her CIO bothers me and I can't get around it but I haven't completely cut her out of my life either.
I'm a little bit like this with my neighbor up the street. She knows I would never CIO and that I don't approve of it. I thought at first we were becoming good friends, but looks like more just neighborly now. Part of it is her CIO.

I certainly would never leave DD with her now, though we did trade babysitting a couple times in the past (before she started CIO). I rarely see her anymore even though she lives just up the street. When ran into her after the holidays, she was talking about getting the book she wanted for xmas - "The SuperNanny" - so now I'm feeling even less inclined to hang out with her.

So I guess, yes, it would effect my relationship. But in the situation of someone who is pg. I think you have a good chance of "rubbing off" on her at least some in a positive way. I used to think co-sleeping was weird but the people at our hospital actually suggested it.

I think we can lead best by example. But sometimes other people just don't pay attention. I'd say see how it goes and if she remains rigid in her thinking after the baby is born - then maybe drop the relationship and explain why. Might give her something to think about.
post #33 of 114
yes.
what the h*ck can i do? i am the only AP mom around here! :
i try not to be judgemental at all.
post #34 of 114

Does this count as cry it out? Please offer sleep solutions

DD used to be very goods about bedtime I would nurse to sleep then leave the room since she turned 7monthsish she doesnt want to be nursed to sleep when I lay her down next to her to put her to sleep she thinks it playtime crawls all over the bed talking and having a party meanwhile I will just lay there and pretend I('m sleeping to try to get her to go to sleep, also during this time all the lights are off and her white noise music is on so after 20 min or more of trying I will put her in her crib then she will cry, I will usually let it last 5-10 min then go back in and try to rock or nurse back to sleep, if this doesnt work after 20 min or so I put her back into her crib and do the routine over, usualy after 1-2 times of this she will nurse to slep because she now has wore herself out crying

I do not like letting her cry I dont know what to do, she IS tired AND SHOWS ME ALL THE SIGNS SHE IS,. SO ITS NOT THAT SHES NOT TIRED AND DOESNT WANT TO GO TO BED. ( SORRY BOUT THE CAPS) dang caps lock key!!! It seems the only way she will finally nurse to sleep ids after she has realized she is going to end up back in her crib, how do I get my baby back to nursing to sleep w/o crying??
post #35 of 114
I say yes because I've done it. I was good friends with a mom who's dd was 3 months older than my DS. We were neighbors. They moved away when he was about 1 or so - and I don't think we'd still be friends if they haven't.

I say this because a lot of times if they CIO then they also do a lot of things very differently (i.e. spank, etc) and I won't have my son around others who treat their kids that way.
post #36 of 114
yes, in fact, most of my mom friends have done cio. I don't agree with it but I dislike being judged about my parenting choices so I try really hard not to judge others for how they choose to parent. I know these moms love their kids and are just trying to do what they feel is best. cio is so accepted in the mainstream that I know they really don't think it could do any harm.

I think it's great that you are giving your friend resources on cio, etc. Since she hasn't had her baby yet, she has no idea how much her baby's cries will effect her. Reading the info that you have given her may make her think twice and realize that there's a better way.
post #37 of 114

re

I think the most important part of friendships is being able to respect our differences. I think CIO is absolutely the most saddest and long term detrimental thing a parent can do, but I also believe that everyone needs to be given the room to learn and change. I honestly thought there was NO other way to put a baby to sleep than CIO and sleeping/feeding on a strict routine prior to finding mothering.com (my husband actually found it doing research on raising babies while I was still too busy fighting with obstetricians to focus on AFTER the birth yet).

There are subjects that I cant discuss with a lot of people (my religion/sexuality/child raising practices/etc) and as long as they drop it I am fine with it. If your friend makes it an issue between you, I would drop the friendship. If she respects your differences then I dont think it would have to be an issue (but I wouldnt be there when the baby is CIO either just because i would be too upset by it)
post #38 of 114
Thread Starter 
Thank you for all of your insightful words. Let me address a few things:

-This started because she just visited a friend of hers and told me they suggested a fabulous sleep book that she HAD to get. I started in on how horrible it was, thinking she didn't know it was pro-CIO. She knew and approved.

-Knowing alternatives: she knows alternatives and says that "if a baby is fed and dry there's no reason they shouldn't lay down and go to sleep. A couple of pats on his back and that's it. It worked when I was babysitting and they were fine." : And while she's gung-ho to read the pro-CIO book she refuses to read any alternative books - I'm simply HOPING that she'll read the links I sent her.

-Respecting choices: she doesn't really respect mine lately. At first she was all good but now I'm getting the comments like:
---do you EVER put him down?
---he'll still be sleeping in your bed forever (I asked her how many 18 yr olds she knew who still slept with their parents - she said she didn't know any 18 yr olds who had co-slept. *sigH*)
---I was complaining that my legs hurt from bouncing DS to sleep (then during a nap he needs to keep bouncing ....) for like an hour after doing a tough lower body weight workout. She couldn't understand why I would bounce him like that. Just.Couldn't.Get.It.
---during the same conversation she mentioned how "disgusting" it was that some people are still breastfeeding at 5 yrs old.

So while the CIO is only one issue - I'm afraid it is going to open a door to a ton of larger issues/beliefs. I KNOW I can never be around her if she lets her baby cry. I will need to leave. I also told her she doesn't ever get to babysit. That didn't go over well either. Why would I leave my child with someone who has stated they will put him down and let him cry alone?

I'm really hoping she changes after she has the baby. I know I was NEVER going to co-sleep. Yeah, well the crib makes a fantastic laundry holder.
post #39 of 114
Not close friends. I have had aquaintances who do it, though. We don't really talk about sleep.
post #40 of 114
This is such a hard one for me. I am a new mom and trying to make some mom friends, but I just bristle when they talk about letting baby "fuss it out" or that they are "ferberizing." Honestly, I have not been pursuing those relationships, but it has left me with few mama friends, which I think is important. As a new mom, it is just so hard to NOT talk about sleep with other moms, so it is hard to build relationships with people who do things that you fundamentally don't agree with. I know that being an AP parent in itself is the source of a lot of criticism, and I don't want to be critical back of other parenting styles (I don't want to be critical in general)... but it is just so HARD not to be about CIO. I would love suggestions from people who have been successful.
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