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Could you be friends with someone who CIO? - Page 3

post #41 of 114
If they were truly using CIO (letting a child cry without ever picking it up) I think I'd have a hard time being around them. At the other end of the spectrum is the person who picks up a child every time they so much as make a peep. I can't be around either type of person.

I honestly don't know many people who use real CIO (which IMO is willfull neglect) or are completely anti-cosleeping. Most of my friends/family have/had their kids in the bed with them at some point, even if it wasn't full time co-sleeping. Heck, my parents wound up with all four of us in the bed with them one night during tornado season when I was about 12!

Circing is another story, though. I don't know very many people who haven't circed their boys. I'm so glad my husband is intact. I'd have to get divorced if my partner wanted to circ one of our children. As for other people, I can offer the information, but it's really not my place to tell them they are a bad person for making that decision.
post #42 of 114
Interesting question and answers. Like someone said previously, I could be friendly and civil but I couldn't really be friends. To me, it is so much more than one single issue. The people I known who have done CIO also don't breastfeed or use gentle discipline. When it comes down to it, we just don't have anything in common. Since I recently moved, I have been more cautious in finding new friends who share more of my values.
post #43 of 114
post #44 of 114
I have a friend who does this, amongst other things like smoking around her baby, and I can't stand her. I'm nice to her and try to get her to stop, but she doesn't really listen. It makes me sad, and I feel so much for her child but can do nothing about it. I don't like talking to her or being around her because I feel we have nothing in common. I feel like I don't know her anymore...so yeah I am still her friend but it is not the same... To me CIO is lazy, abusive, and selfish...not to mention its stupid to think a 7 month old understand that 9 pm is bedtime when they have no concept of time and that they'll learnif you just abandon them when the moon comes out.
post #45 of 114
Most of my friends and family with children have done some CIO (like staying in the room and patting, singing till the baby sleeps, always picking him/her up if he/she gets frantic, or having dad do the nighttime stuff even tho baby would rather have mom) at some point...I'm ok with that. Their children all seem happy and healthy. They all seem attached to mom and/or dad and no worse for it.

For me, it's easy to say I'd never CIO and I'll just keep endlessly rocking to sleep and getting up all night - I have tons of support, a husband who sets his own hours and works from home, family near by who can watch the baby (who is now one) so I can get a nap. I don't have other children who need me or a job I have to go to in the morning. I'm healthy with no PPD or physical issues. I can see how someone who is faced with ANOTHER sleepless night followed by another long day without any rest or support in site would decide to CIO in some modified way.
post #46 of 114
For me in the example given, the first problem would be her disinterest in listening and discussing. That to me is not a sign of a friendship in most cases.

In general, I could be friends with someone who CIO very moderately. Up to a point, I consider it none of my business, and maybe sometimes quite understandable. But there is a point beyond which I would consider it dangerously neglectful, and a person who went beyond that point I would not want as a friend.
post #47 of 114
I would give her the benefit of the doubt and see what happens when she actually holds her baby. Right now her worst fear is probably that her child might still be waking at night when they're a year, or that she's never going to have five minutes to herself ever again.

It's not as if she's planning to circumcise. It'll be 6+ months before that sort of thing becomes possible, and by then she might just be so in love with her child that she won't do it.

But, yes, if she did do CIO I would not be able to be close with her. Cordial, but not close.

Whatever her intentions now, you need to stay friends to provide the model and counterpoint to the people who'll be telling her that a child who doesn't eat fpour hourly at four month is destined for juvenile delinquency. You owe it to her baby and possibly to the mother to do what you can.

I don't think her unwillingness to listen is necessarily a bad thing. being bombarded with unsolicited advice sucks. I think it's more powerful and appropriate to be nearby when she calls you one morning and say "baby wanted to nurse for four hours last night, my milk must be bad" or "MIL says baby should be sleeping through so I'm going to CIO". Maybe read the books she's reading, so you can put a caring slant on them, point out for example, that Weissbluth says no CIO at all before 4 months, and tells you to do whatever you want with regards to sleep before then. And then conveniently forget that he says you can start at 4 months IMO you can pick something non-cruel from most of those books for most situations. They're not 100% CIO, there's other stuff in there that you could buy the child time with. Often people simply need to hear that xyz is normal and a stage and it will pass. Read Ferber, too. He's a name that will probably sway her, and you can pick and choose some very decent sleep things out of his book.

How convincing would it be for you to say "Oh, actually, I was reading Ferber and he warns that you need to make sure that the child isn't suffering separation anxiety before doing CIO, and that 8/9 months is a prime time for separation anxiety, so you should wait a bit longer". And then you've saved that child another month in which they might start sleeping better on their own, and never get CIO'd.

Research things are are between co-sleeping and CIO, and have suggestions ready for her. Like she might prefer to have a mattress on the floor in her DC's room and nurse him to sleep on it and then have her own bed, for example. Or to sit by his crib in her room with her hand on him, rocking and singing him to sleep.

I have a friends who thinks extended nursing is weird, but she hasn't had her baby yet. If she weans her child on his first birthday than yes, I'll rethink my opinion of her, but until then she has to be given the chance to learn and grow and come into her own as a mother. And as a close friend I can model how wonderful it is to parent in a loving, caring, easygoing way.

But I have an ex-friend who did extinction CIO at five months. That's why she's an ex-friend.
post #48 of 114
No, I could never be friends with someone who let their child cry it out. That's the one thing that I am passionate about with parenting. I'm slowly easing myself out of the playgroup we belong to in which all the other moms use CIO. As friendly as they are, I can no longer listen to them talk about it or get past the fact that they do it.
post #49 of 114
Yes. I have a friend who let her DD (21 mos.) CIO the other day when she wouldn't nap. We did discuss it, and she said she felt bad about it but that was the only way she could get her DD to nap sometimes. She doesn't CIO all the time (usually relies on routine, which works really well, but she was out and missed the 'nap window' so she CIO) and I know she responds in the night when her kids need her. I really didn't know what to tell her since I'm so new at this and otherwise she is a great mama.
post #50 of 114
It's hard to hear about CIO, especially from well meaning mothers and friends. I have been in a similar position. I'm so passionate about not CIO, and it just blows me away to hear that people still do it. I've wondered, wow, if we are so far apart on this issue, can we relate to each other at all? Maybe she will change her mind, and maybe she will be more influenced by you than you think. Just remember how many books are out there that say it's ok, and if you feel it's appropriate, slip her some Sears or Pantley.
post #51 of 114
my best friend from childhood used Babywise: . I am really drifting away from her. SHe's very into sleep scheduling. It's just uncomfortable. I feel like she doesn't want to talk about baby stuff with me. I steered her toward MDC and almost got her a Mothering sub. when she was preggers (back in 2004), but for some reason I hesitated. I wish I hadn't...
post #52 of 114
I have friends who CIO because they thought it was in the best interest of their babies. I disagree but I can still be friends with them because they honestly thought they were doing the right thing. But another acquaintance who did CIO because she seemed to think her baby was too much trouble, I'm not friends with her. There are other reasons for that though.
post #53 of 114
If I wasnt' I wouldnt have any friends.
JK.. sort of. I am a new mama so I just try and lead by example so to speak. Maybe the PP is right and she'll feel differently once she hears that baby crying.
post #54 of 114
Nope, I'm not friends with people who abuse their children.
post #55 of 114
I don't judge people based on parenting style. I can wholeheartedly disagree and be disappointed, but it doesn't mean they're bad or evil, IMO.
post #56 of 114

Several posts removed

Several posts have been removed from this thread. We do not host debates on the topic of CIO on this forum (see forum guidelines)

Let's keep this discussion civil
post #57 of 114
Since I consider it abuse, it is hard for me. However, I do currently have people in my life who do this, but I either avoid them or try to dissuade them (depends on the person).
post #58 of 114
Agree to withstand the judgement of every little thing other moms do.
Women do the best they can with what they have so accept real friends' differences as just that, different from what you may do.

Now, if you and old friends are growing apart in all arenas and have nothing in common anymore that is a different story. Or, if you are meeting new friends and see there is not a whole lot in common, move on. But keep your judgements to yourself and stay off the high horse of everyone should do what I do and nothing else. You never know what you can learn from others until you open yourself to their reasons and background.
post #59 of 114
No, I don't think I could be friends with someone who CIO. I think I might try, but eventually it would really begin to bug me and I would try to educate them only to get upset at their stupidity and give up both trying to educate and being their friend. I once had a friend who was a spanker. . .eventually it got to me as well and we are no longer friends!
post #60 of 114
I find it hard to get past this w/ friends as well. It still shocks me when I find out people do it, and I always feel soooo awful for their babies. Same with spanking. A woman in a moms group I go to spanked her DD at our group xmas party and I nearly threw up. I can be civil, but not friends.
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