Can we talk about alcohol? - Page 3

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Amris

There are a large number of studies that show that children who live in a home with parents who drink, who smoke, or who have other "habits" end up doing the same things, statistically speaking. Furthermore, many of those studies indicate that children from those homes tend to have a far higher likelihood of becoming alcohol addicts.

The person to whom I responded seemed to indicate that these scientific studies are just "fear tactics." Furthermore, the impression comes across that the person she quoted needs to "educate herself" on how harmless alcohol really is.

Anyone who has lived with an alcohol addict would not say such a thing. Anyone whose family member or friend has died or been injured by a drunk driver would not say that.

Alcohol, even notwithstanding its potential detrimental effects on the body (one of which I have already mentioned) is far from harmless if someone becomes addicted to it. In a home where it's readily available and an openly accepted "part of life," the likelihood of a child becoming an alcohol addict are increased.

A parent who feels extremely strongly about their child becoming an alcohol addict isn't ignorant. In fact, they're probably over-educated on the hard realities of what alcohol can do.

I think we all have biases. Obviously you have lived with alcoholism or an alcoholic, and this has affected your perception, as not living with or being an alcoholic has affected mine.

I'm not worried about it. And if you want to make a case that parents should never drink alcohol lest they influence their children, that's a different thread. We are talking specifically about nursing mothers here.

[StrawberryFields]

I have a beer or two or a glass of wine or two a couple times a week and I am fine with it.

[RootSnort]

Originally Posted by homemademomma

why do you pump before you drink?

I'm being overcautious, and trying to ensure that little to no alcohol gets into his milk. I will also pump just before I take any medication, and then not pump again for a few hours.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by Amris

Anyone who has lived with an alcohol addict would not say such a thing. Anyone whose family member or friend has died or been injured by a drunk driver would not say that.

Alcohol, even notwithstanding its potential detrimental effects on the body (one of which I have already mentioned) is far from harmless if someone becomes addicted to it. In a home where it's readily available and an openly accepted "part of life," the likelihood of a child becoming an alcohol addict are increased.

A parent who feels extremely strongly about their child becoming an alcohol addict isn't ignorant. In fact, they're probably over-educated on the hard realities of what alcohol can do.

THese ARE fear tactics. I have friends who's family was wrecked for a while from drunk driving. Her BIL killed her and his best friend. She can see however that it was her BIL's addiction. It wasn't the alcohol that did it.

Originally Posted by Amris

That's exactly the point I was trying to make regarding the person who so adamantly said she'd rather formula feed than give her baby alcohol.



Again, though, I will point out that alcohol is NOT healthy. If you indulge in it, it is, indeed, an indulgence. I am really surprised that on a "crunchy" board, people actually advocate the use of drugs and alcohol, when they are so detrimental to the body.

...


Alcohol has no physical benefits (aside from the 'may reduce the risk of heart disease' thing, which I'll go into in a minute), yet taxes your liver, depresses your nervous system, and uses energy for recovery that should be put to better uses. It dehydrates you, it causes an insulin response, and it is high in high GI carbs (in other words, it can contribute to making you fat).

...

Well, is the "possibility of reduced likelihood of heart disease" or the "well, it alters my perceptions which is fun" worth the detrimental effects of alcohol on the body? Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Me, though, I'd rather not pass those detrimental effects of dehydration, insulin response, altered perception, etc. on to my child.

...

I feel far better leading a healthy lifestyle than I feel for the short time that my perception is altered by alcohol. When you are in great physical shape, you REALLY notice the unpleasant side effects of alcohol.

If you're not in great physical shape, putting one more demand on your body isn't really helpful. It's a little like putting your pans into a really old dishwasher without prerinsing. Don't be surprised when it doesn't work out so hot.

Don't be surprised when your body gets dehydrated, you put on weight, your liver gets tired, your immune system gets depressed, your nervous system slows down, and your metabolism crashes if you add yet another thing for your body to "recover" from on top of everything else.

Ok. Yes. You are being judgemental. You are assuming that people who do drink on occasion and don't feel bad the next day aren't in "great physical shape"

You are also saying that mothers who drink and breastfeed don't care about their children as much as you do.

You are also using "I told you so" when at the end you say. "Don't be suprised when.." your body goes to $#it is your feel. Just like the wife who says I told you so is condescending. Your choice of tone is too.

Originally Posted by Pynki

You are missing the fact that it does help a mom unwind and relax. With no outside effort. That is a benefit. A benefit that can and is had without copious amounts of alcohol. I don't drink for my hearthealth. I drink to relax a bit.

I have to say, your last post is UBER judgemental. I am sorry if you are unable to view alcohol in a neutral light. That is not the case for everyone.

I saw my father drunk one time. I was 15. I wasn't afraid. He wasn't going to drive anywhere it was at a cast party at a hotel in his suite. I was impressed by the incredible amount of alcohol he had to imbue to get that way though. It was an impressive feat.

Originally Posted by Amris

Ah, yes, the ever-popular, "I only drink a little bit, therefor my body has nothing to recover from" argument. I already stated this, but I'll do so again... even small amounts are detrimental. Do you think your body just hangs onto it? Does your liver not have to process it if it's 'just a little bit'?

I'm sorry that you're not able to relax without alcohol. I understand that that's how it is for you. I don't have a problem with you doing whatever it is that you want to do with your own body.

The purpose of my post is to say, "Do whatever you wish to do, but do it with awareness, and don't pass on myths." Myths like, "but only a little bit isn't harmful at all." It is, indeed, detrimental to the body. Will it kill you? Maybe not. Will it effect the quality of your health negatively? Definitely. As will eating sugars. As will refusing to exercise. As will many other things that "we all do, all the time." The point I am raising is that you don't have to add yet another stressor to your body.

You have decided that you will drink, regardless. Someone else who doesn't need alcohol to relax may very well read my post and say, "Hmmm, yeah, I guess the benefits don't outweigh the negatives." I think from your response here, you were not aware that EVEN A LITTLE BIT of alcohol is a stressor on your body. Since you were not aware of that, it would be reasonable to assume that others are not aware, either.



No, my post was not judgemental, my post was educational. If it makes you feel guilt for drinking, that is not because of my post, it is because you are reading something into it that isn't there. The fact of the matter is, my post IS very literally in a neutral light. The FACTS are that EVEN A LITTLE alcohol has detrimental effects on your body.

It's okay if you want to indulge. But doing so without awareness and deliberate choice is not wise. I indulge in sugar on occassion. Sugar has a detrimental effect on my body, as it does on everyone's. I cannot change that medical FACT just becuase I dislike that medical fact. When I indulge in sugar, I am doing exactly that, indulging. I can honestly say that I cannot find pleasure in eating unless it's something sweet. Other times I eat, it is for sustenance.

That is not judgemental, that is just fact. For me to enjoy food, it has to be sweet. I'm not being mean or snarky or rude about that, I am simply stating something that is factual. Just as it is factual that alcohol dehydrates, alters perceptions, depresses the nervous system, etc.



I'm not really sure what to say here, as it has nothing to do with my post whatsoever. It would apply if I were stating physical effects that come ONLY from imbibing incredible amounts of alcohol, but I was not.

Number one. I did not say that I ONLY unwind and relax with a beer in my hand or a drink, or a glass of wine. I said it is helpful. It is. You are being judgemental by implying that it must be the ONLY way I can relax.

I shared the story about my dad because it came to mind when speaking about parents and drinking.

My dad drank responsibly my whole childhood that I can remember. I only saw him really let loose that one time. As I said, I was 15 or 16 years old. You aren't the only one who's personal life and childhood colors their view of alcohol.

[Amris]

If I'm against alcohol, I must have been raised by an alcoholic. Nice assumption, but completely untrue. Study and science are at the root of my decision not to drink while pregnant or nursing. My only experience with an alcoholic came, actually, after my viewpoint of alcohol changed to be one of "not interested."

As for the repeated assertion that only over-indulgence has an effect on the body, let me just again. If it had no effect on the body unless you over indulge, people wouldn't drink it except to over-indulge. Therefor, I am finished with that particular discussion. If there are no effects from not drinking much, people wouldn't do it. Anyone with any degree of logic understands that you don't get all the positives and none of the negatives.

Bodybuilders all do drugs just like all alcoholics drink like fish. The whole "body building is unhealthy" is not borne out by science, only by an emotional need to find some way to attempt to take the focus off of the actual discussion.

You are also saying that mothers who drink and breastfeed don't care about their children as much as you do.

Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?

[thismama]

Originally Posted by Amris

Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?

Er, neither are okay with me. But then I'm not big into the "you must not care about your children becoz you do xyz" guilt trips. YMMV.

[spughy]

I drink an occasional glass of wine and nurse whenever. I don't worry about it.

Does alcohol have a detrimental effect on the body? Sure. So does sleep deprivation, but all of us here happily (well more or less) accept that IN EXCHANGE for our babies knowing they are loved. I will also happily accept a slight amount of dehydration (not much considering I drink more than 4 litres of water every day) and a bit of a hit on the old liver in exchange for the pleasure of the intricacies of a good glass of wine. Moreover, I value the skill I have developed in appreciating a good glass of wine, and I would like to pass on that skill to my daughter eventually. There is ART and finesse in wine and beer, it is a product of human ingenuity and the best ingredients nature can provide, and it should be appreciated.

Drinking isn't just about getting drunk or tipsy or even relaxing. Wine, beer and high-quality liquors are all about aesthetic appreciation, much like fine art, and if that's not your bag, that's fine, but there's no need to make those of us who appreciate the bouquet of a great burgundy or the finish on an good microbrewed wheat beer feel like we're body-hating lushes because of it.

[mom2snugbugs]

I voted very rarely. I just had a half glass of champagne at my SIL's wedding. That was all since before my DS was born, and that was 7.5 months ago.

But I am a light weight to begin with.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by Amris

Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?

Actually that WOULDN'T be ok to say ANYWHERE on MDC because it ISN'T TRUE!

[GooeyRN]

I have a beer or two on fri or sat evenings. It never affected dd. I have been doing it since she was about 6 months old. I did not feel comfortable drinking before then.

[artgoddess]

Up until I became pregnant a couple months ago, I had a glass of wine with dinner, some times two, probably 4 times a week. My son is 3 years old though. When he was exclusively nursing & doing so round the clock I drank much less. I even did the pump and dump when I went to a party and had a couple of hard mixed drinks when he was 5 months old.

[ndunn]

So let me get this straight.... If I have 1 glass of beer or wine per week, the "studies" have shown that my child will have more of a chance of becoming an alcoholic.....

[ndunn]

Oh and since when did even a little alcohol have a detrimental effect on the body? I'm sure I can dig up just as many studies that show that the occasional glass of red wine is actually good for you.

[ccohenou]

Originally Posted by Amris

If it had no effect on the body unless you over indulge, people wouldn't drink it except to over-indulge.

Bologna. If this were so, no one would drink any beverage BUT alcohol. There is flavor, conviviality, enjoyment...not just drunkenness. You've obviously got your own bone to pick with alcohol, but it is a part of nearly every human culture and cuisine, it does have demonstrable health benefits in certain forms and amounts, and I challenge you to produce any reference showing that a mother who drinks within moderate guidelines is likely to cause alcoholism in her nursing child.

[MomToKandE]

When my babies were tiny and nursing all the time I almost never drank. Ds just turned 3 and now usually only nurses morning and night so I don't worry about drinking a few times a week.

[Mama Poot]

I'll have a glass of wine a handful of times a month, a mixed drink less than that, and hard liquor never. I had a huge strawberry daquiri at Red Lobster and was tipsy after drinking it because I so rarely drink stuff like that, and Henri DID get an upset tummy after that, so I won't be doing that again any time soon. The wine doesn't affect him, however, so I'll still "indulge" a few times a month with that.

[homemademomma]

Originally Posted by LauraBlock

I'm being overcautious, and trying to ensure that little to no alcohol gets into his milk. I will also pump just before I take any medication, and then not pump again for a few hours.

: oops i see in your sig you express- i missed that part before!!!

[Jazzmin]

I drink a beer or have a glass of wine maybe 3 times a week. I have no qualms about BF and drinking.

[jaidymama]

When my son was an infant/baby I never had a drink of alcohol. Now that my son is a toddler, his growth has slowed down and his weight is higher so I have recently indulged in a glass of red wine with a meal occasionally. He does still nurse infrequently at night.

Honestly, though, my perspective is that if you bring a child into the world and are nursing then you can give up a little vice like alcohol for a year or more. It's just part of the role as a parent. For me, I see it as a responsible health choice... they are growing so quickly, why risk introducing something into their body if the affects are questionable. Besides why I think there is a problem if a parent's need for a drink outweighs the more cautious stance of drinking something else.

And perhaps even more importantly, if you are getting TIPSY around your baby and you are co-sleeping... then you should seriously make sure you sleep in another bed or on the floor... but never in the same bed as the child.

Oh, and here's what Kelly Mom has to say...
http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by Amris

Study and science are at the root of my decision not to drink

This will be the second time I've asked this, but I would like to see the science and research that indicate ONE glass of wine will leave my child impaired and more likely to become an alcoholic.

If there are no effects from not drinking much, people wouldn't do it.

There you go again assuming that people drink to get drunk. That is simply NOT true. Has it never occurred to you that people actually enjoy the taste, above all else?

The whole "body building is unhealthy" is not borne out by science, only by an emotional need to find some way to attempt to take the focus off of the actual discussion.

Trying to convince me of the detriments of alcohol by using body builders as an example of health is laughable. Body builders, just by virtue of their sport, are unhealthy. There is nothing deflective about that. It's like trying to get a smoker to tell a fat person to loose weight.

Pot, meet Kettle. LOL. :

Originally Posted by spughy

Wine, beer and high-quality liquors are all about aesthetic appreciation, much like fine art, and if that's not your bag, that's fine, but there's no need to make those of us who appreciate the bouquet of a great burgundy or the finish on an good microbrewed wheat beer feel like we're body-hating lushes because of it.

Exactly. Sometimes it's not about getting drunk, but simply appreciating what is in your glass. I know a citrus grower who does the same thing with a fresh glass of orange juice. Shall we assume he is doing it only for the loose stools he gets from "copious amounts" of vitamin C? :