What to do - Baby refusing EBM in bottle

[dakotamidnight]

DD is 4.5 months - and eating just a little solids {very little & infrequent}.

She went thru this before at around 3.5 months, and we changed nipples & it was resolved. Now she's refusing the bottle again - and I"m at school from 8 am until 5 pm - with her only taking maybe 2 oz total today.

She did have some rice cereal with lots of milk {really EBM with a little cereal to make her like it and fed with a spoon} but maybe only another 2 ozs on top of the little bit of milk my mother managed to get in her. This was only after gramma had offered the bottle multiple times, and while babe was definately hungry, she still refused bottle.

Any tips?I'm really worried about her getting dehydrated like she did the last time this happened.

She is teething terribly. I can't take off and go feed her { 45 minute ride from school to home, and I only get a 1 hr lunch.}. Gramma can't bring her here either, as we don't have a running car at the moment.

[alegna]

She really shouldn't be on solids at that age. Has grandma tried a sippy cup? how about an open cup? Syringe feeding? Finger feeding? There are lots of other ways to get a little milk in a little one.

good luck!

-Angela

[CathMac]

Here are two articles on teething with some pain relieving suggestions. The Sears article has a link to a guide on using pain relievers. I'm not a big fan of them but DH does tend to use them sparingly as necessary, starting with half the age/weight appropriate dose, which may be why teething never interfered with nursing, or bottle feeding for that matter.

Also, if your DC seems to respond well to something frozen you might want to try a "Momsicle". Freeze some EBM in an ice cube tray, perhaps with a pacifier as a "stick". Or give an EBM ice cube in one of those little mesh bags used to give older babies a way to gnaw on solids without taking too big a bite and choking. Please see the third link below to an earlier MDC thread on "Momsicles" including tips on how to make them.

Kellymom Article On Teething
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/teething.html

Dr. Sears Article On Teething
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/teething.html

earlier MDC thread on "Momsicles"
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=walmart

~Cath

[GatorNNP]

She will be okay for the 8 hours taking 2 ounces, if you nurse unlimited while together. Try soothing activities, any chance of getting a neighbor to give grandma a ride? I had this situation with my son, it was very frustrating. He would wait 8hrs if he had to. Another thing is trying to get shorter shifts (like 6hrs) for a short period of time, sometimes employers will work with you if you explain the situation. Often the baby will come around after a couple weeks, mine did finally at 7 months of age, teething actually helped because we would put icewater in the bottle and let him play with it, he found out he could suck on the thing and after that we could trick him into drinking the bottle while he was in a light sleep state. Try letting baby fall asleep and slip the bottle in.

[dakotamidnight]

We tried everything yesterday - and I ended up coming home to an oviously dehdyated babe. She didn't pee from 6 pm yesterday until nearly 5 am today and when she did it was very dark. gramma even tried pedialite in hopes she would drink something while I was at work.

When I got home yesterday DD nursed for over an hour & drained both breasts. She didn't look well again until this morning. She sleeps thru the night {midnight until around 7 am} without nursing on a regular basis, and even with attempts to get her to nurse.

I have to find a solution for this - babe ended up crying for most of the afternoon, but still wouldn't take the bottle. Gramma can't handle her crying constantly - she has heart problems.

I can't change my schedule - I'm in college so the classes are when they are. No neighbors can give gramma a ride - they all work days and gramma is in a wheelchair.

I'm trying to get a finger feeder or SNS in hopes that night work. We've already tried open cup and sippy cups and syringe feeding - all of which just make DD madder. She just wants the boob

[CathMac]

Dakotamidnight,
Do you have enough EBM to try one Momsicle (see my earlier post)? Or doesn't she find the cold soothing? The idea is that she would actually be eating EBM at the same time she's numbing the pain.

Just a thought.
~Cath

[mamanurse]

Can you bring baby with you to class for maybe just the morning? Could grandma wear an SNS and "nurse" your baby? I know it sounds weird, but it might work.

[dakotamidnight]

Originally Posted by CathMac

Dakotamidnight,
Do you have enough EBM to try one Momsicle (see my earlier post)? Or doesn't she find the cold soothing? The idea is that she would actually be eating EBM at the same time she's numbing the pain.

Just a thought.
~Cath

I have lots of EBM - I'm actually pumping for the local milk bank as well.

SO far she hasn't found cold to be soothing. We'll give it a try tomorrow though.

Could thrush be the cause? I looked in her mouth and didn't see anything, but my nipples are like pins and needles!

[dakotamidnight]

Originally Posted by mamanurse

Can you bring baby with you to class for maybe just the morning? Could grandma wear an SNS and "nurse" your baby? I know it sounds weird, but it might work.

I don' think I could - I'll have to check with my professor. The trouble is - I got to class, then work, then class again all on campus.

I'm looking for a SNS or finger feeder - maybe that will help.

[GatorNNP]

I know this is not a a good situation, sending you supportive vibes. Maybe until your babe figures things out, skip a day of work here and there? Maybe a professor will take a little pity on you and let you skip a class to shorten the day until things get better? I was in undergrad at UF and a male student would bring his baby/toddler to class if his sitter couldn't make it or somthing. He did not ask if it was okay, he just did it. Nobody gave him a hard time, he sat in the back and went outside if the baby got fussy. He was an only parent. Consider it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

You can also encourage your baby to reverse cycle, if you take baby to bed with you she will likely nurse more at night and keep the same pattern on the weekend. My son ended up reverse-cycling after about a week of me working during the day, I worked a 10 hour day and he came to see me 1 time at lunch with a babysitter and that was all he got until I came home, at the time he was like 18 pounds or something, he would nurse tons in the evening and every 2-3 hrs overnight.

[CathMac]

I cannot often get a good enough look in DD2's mouth to tell for sure whether or not she has thrush, there are too many nooks and crannies. I finally figured out that even when it isn't obviously on her tongue it is often on the triangular pieces of flesh on the inside corners of her mouth. Fortunately, however, it doesn't interfere with her nursing, rather it is a comfort issue for me because if she has it I have it.

I would say that unless you have another explanation for your pink nipples that you probably have Thrush and either you got it from her or you gave it to her. In which case it's pretty likely she has Thrush.

There is a lot of Thrush info on Kellymom and plenty of threads on these boards but I will give you one link to Newman's Candida/GSE protocol. If you decide she has thrush and you want to try this definitely use the specific type of GSE he recommends (Citricidal).

Candida Protocol
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/c-candida_protocol.html

Even if Thrush were to completely rules out teething as a problem, the "Momsicles" might still be a good way to get some EBM into her. If she doesn't like the Popsicle form maybe you could mash it into a slush and spoon it to her.

Also, I have to agree with Gator

Originally Posted by GatorNNP

I was in undergrad at UF and a male student would bring his baby/toddler to class if his sitter couldn't make it or somthing. He did not ask if it was okay, he just did it. ... Consider it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

You can also encourage your baby to reverse cycle, if you take baby to bed with you she will likely nurse more at night and keep the same pattern on the weekend.

Good luck. ~Cath

[dakotamidnight]

Thanks for all the help - we're 99% sure its thrush, and I've upped the probiotics and started vinegar washes on my nipples which is helping greatly. I'm going to get GV and GSE {hopefully if they have it} tonight {didn't make it yesterday}. DD has a pedi appt in the morning {wbv} and hopefully the pedi will address it and perscribe something for both of us, as I don't have ins or a doc at the moment.

DD started taking the bottle again - I'm thinking it was a combo of the thrush and me going back to school after a nearly month break. She still isn't crazy about it, but as long as she takes some I''m not to concerned.

We'll keep the momcicles in mind - we did switch to using motrin instead of the tylenol we had been using at the worst of her teething {in additon to gentle naturals teething liquid} and she seems to be responding much better.

I have brought her to class before several times - when she was only a few months old. I just started a new semester though with all male professors, and for some reason she doesn't like male professors. I can take a day off here and there, but if I take over 5 days I automatically fail one of my classes.

We do co-sleep since birth, and yet she almost never wakes to nurse in the night.

[CathMac]

DD1 seemed to respond better to Motrin than Tylenol for some reason. However, the Motrin made me really nervous. I can't remember why. It may have been in the news at the time.

In any case I'm sure you'll use the smallest effective dose as sparingly as possible.

BTW, how do you find time to pump to donate. Kudos. You've set a whole new SuperMom standard.

I'm glad the situation is improving.

~Cath

[dakotamidnight]

Originally Posted by CathMac

DD1 seemed to respond better to Motrin than Tylenol for some reason. However, the Motrin made me really nervous. I can't remember why. It may have been in the news at the time.

In any case I'm sure you'll use the smallest effective dose as sparingly as possible.

BTW, how do you find time to pump to donate. Kudos. You've set a whole new SuperMom standard.

I'm glad the situation is improving.

~Cath

I normally give her a half dose - every 3hrs or so. She normally starts asking for the next dose around 4 hours and I don't give it until she asks.

The only way I manage to do it is because DD has never taken a lot of EBM while I am gone to work, and so I end up having extra {or did - now my pumping supply is way down for a number of reasons including the thrush. But I'm working on it}. Some days I may only be gone for 3 hours, and would pump in the middle and she never took a bottle or only took maybe an oz - she prefers to sleep more while I'm gone. And I pump while nursing in the morning before I go to school too.

[tulsidas]

i found that when my DD was going to get sick her behavior starting to change. wanting the breast tons, or when she was going through a growth spurt.
but it sounds like it was the big change of having you around all the time adn then you at school.

im glad she is eating again.

why do you think it is thrush???

do your nipples hurt?

usually thrush does not effect the baby in an ill way, just the mama.

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by tulsidas

usually thrush does not effect the baby in an ill way, just the mama.

Fortunately for me that has been my experience. But I believe some babies find nursing painful so it affects their latch; which is probably what causes the clicking sound, an improper latch.
~Cath