Don't like DD's attitude - Page 2

[KaraBoo]

I'm going to be the voice of dissent and say that I don't think it's an older child's responsibility to take care of her/his younger siblings. I think it's wonderful when they want to but they don't have to.

I think you are right when you say it might be the new babies affecting her attitude. Perhaps she feels put upon or left out or just can't handle the changes in her life. Perhaps she feels you ask too much of her (I'm not saying you do, just throwing out ideas based on seeing how things have worked in my family). Perhaps she is resenting the babies because she feels she is forced to take part in their care instead of letting her feelings dictate how she acts toward them.

I also think punishing her by taking away her stuff will not make her want to help with the children. She may help just to get out of being punished. Is this the end result you are looking for? If you care about *why* she doesn't want to help out, maybe you could talk to her about it instead of punishing her?

Keep trying, mama!

[kathymuggle]

Even if you should have worded it differently (if only to be clear/avoid a fight) your DD was still being a bit selfish. You had your hands full and she should have helped.

On another tangent - do you get any one on one time with her? - it might help you to reconnect.

kathy

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by aniT

I don't want to be rude and demand she do things, but by asking nicely she thinks she has a choice.

Take last night for instance. My 3 year old is sick. She was on the floor crying her eyes out. I thought if I got her ready for bed and let her lay in my bed watching cartoons I could take care of the baby. The problem is the baby was crying too. So I told DD#1 that, "It would be nice if you would hold DS while I take care of your sister." She looked at me, went in her room and shut the door. After another minute of crying I went in and got her and told her to hold her brother. She said, you didn't tell me to hold him, you said it would be nice and I choose not to. WTF????

There is a lot of territory between "it would be nice" and "demanding." If someone said to me "it would be nice if you would do such-and-such," I certainly would think I had a choice; if it then turned out they meant I didn't have a choice, I'd think they were being passive-aggressive. You could try starting with, "Please hold DS" or something simple like that-- still polite, but clearly not something with a choice.

I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone already mentioned that.

[sweetfiend]

I am going to join the dissenting voice.

This is a blended family, right? She is adjusting to your (fairly new?) marriage and a unsympathetic father-figure. She is being displaced by the two little ones. And on top of not being your baby anymore (dd #2 aside) you are asking her to help raise them! I think she is sending pretty clear messages that she is unhappy with her relationship with you and her position in the family.

I don't think she has A*N*Y* responsibilty to help you with the baby and the toddler. You are starting a new family, she isn't! Great if she chooses to have a relationship with her half-siblings, but its really something that has to come from her. Punishing her into being a sister isn't going to create anything more than resentment and dislike towards the little ones.

You need to find some help about sucessfully blending families (books, therapy) and you need to have some sympathy for what she is going through. Perhaps some alone time with her and without the babies is a good idea.

That's my two cents.

[Spanish Rose]

I agree with Sweetfiend. This is a hard transition to make, especially all at once.

As for constructive advice...you mentioned having trouble getting her to help around the house. Would it be possible for you to draw up a list of chores--everything from laundry to cooking to yardwork to anything in between-- and ask her to pick a couple? Giving her some choice in the matter could be just what you are looking for.

It sounds like you guys at sort of at each other's throats right now. Would it be possible for you to find a way to just spend a little bit of time alone with her once a week? Not doing anything fancy, just maybe take her grocery shopping and out to lunch or something. Rediscovering the fact that you two can enjoy each other may go a long way towards smoothing things out.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

On another tangent - do you get any one on one time with her? - it might help you to reconnect.
kathy

No we don't and I agree. DH just got a promotion and will be going 9-5 here shortly. I hope that helps some. I did take her to the store with me yesterday and left everyone else with DH. She drove me nuts with buy me buy me buy me buy me every 2 minutes.. ARggg.. I was prolly the same way at her age however.

Originally Posted by sweetfiend

I am going to join the dissenting voice.

This is a blended family, right? She is adjusting to your (fairly new?) marriage and a unsympathetic father-figure. She is being displaced by the two little ones. And on top of not being your baby anymore (dd #2 aside) you are asking her to help raise them! I think she is sending pretty clear messages that she is unhappy with her relationship with you and her position in the family.

I don't consider 9 years fairly new. DH has been around since she was four. This is not a "new" family since the sister she is meanest, rudest too is eight. (I am talking about DD#3 and DS who is #4) DD#2 is willing to help out but she was staying the night at her grandma's that night.

I do not ask her to help raise them, but when I am dealing with two screaming babies as the oldest it is her responsibility to help out. Once DH is home in the evenings again he will (as he does on weekends) help out.

DD has never meet/knon my ex and she never will if I have any say in the matter. He was not a very nice person and did not so nice things to his own sister when she was 11 and he was 19. He has also never ever ever shown the slightest interest in the baby I was three months pregnant with when he left. We lived with my mom at the time and while I lived elsewhere SHE lived in the same house for another 11 years. No contact was even attempted.

Coming from a home where I barely knew my own father, and had three step's and a BF in the home before I was 9 I think DD has it much better off. She has only had ONE step and he has been around since he was very little. She barely remembers anything "before" DH.

I neither consider our family "blended" nor did I considered her siblings "half." They are her sisters and brother and that is that! That term annoys the living hell out of me. DH learned that quickly when he tried to call my little bro my "half" bro. My "half" siblings are my "dad's" kids that I don't know. NOT my little bro who I grew up with in the same house with, who's diapers I changed, and who I baby sat for FREE from 13-16 when my mom though she would quit work and play mommy. KWIM?

I know you were trying to be helpful and I don't mean to seem as if I am yelling at you. In my mind a "blended" family is the Brady Bunch. Not a family who has been together so long the child doesn't remember anything else, and the siblings are "halves" not "steps."

As part of this family it is her responsibility to help out with this family.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Spanish Rose

I agree with Sweetfiend. This is a hard transition to make, especially all at once.

I am not exactly sure what transition was made all at once. .

As for constructive advice...you mentioned having trouble getting her to help around the house. Would it be possible for you to draw up a list of chores--everything from laundry to cooking to yardwork to anything in between-- and ask her to pick a couple? Giving her some choice in the matter could be just what you are looking for.

We did have this last year for her and dd #2. It did work fairly well but as usual I would forget to print the new chart the next week or something. We will have to possibly try this again.

[Spanish Rose]

I apologize. I somehow got the impression that your families had just blended...and I was wrong.

With the chore idea...ask if maybe they want to have the same jobs, picked by themselves, for a month or so. That might make it easier.

Does the other sister have a responsibility to help with the babies?

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Spanish Rose

Does the other sister have a responsibility to help with the babies?

Not with the three year old. She just makes her scream. She does help with the baby sometimes but I don't really like her picking him up. If I give him to her... but I don't like her picking him up.

I asked her to watch him once while he was asleep in the swing so I could take a shower. When I came downstairs she was just getting him out of the swing, set him on the rocking chair and walked off. :

And actually DD#1 doesn't baby sit all that often. Maybe for 15-20 minutes when I take/pick up DD#2 from swim practice, or when I am overwhelmed and ask or help. But as I said, DH is going to days soon so that will take the "'swim practice" watching away from her. DH can take DD.

[TinkerBelle]

Considering this is not a new situation, I feel that it would not kill her to help every once in awhile. I do not agree that an older sibling occasionally helping with younger sibs is 'raising' them. That is just as insulting as if you told a WOHM that the babysitter or daycare is raising their children.

Now, if she had hours of chores to do and watched the children ALL of the time, while the OP frittered her time away or just ripped and ran around constantly, I could see the point of the "voices of dissent". In this case, I just don't see what is so wrong with the girl helping her mother from time to time.

[kathymuggle]

"In this case, I just don't see what is so wrong with the girl helping her mother from time to time."

:

Earlier on someone said limitting screen time helped. At xmas my Ds was very rude to me - he went on reduced (1 hour a day) screen time as a result. He was a darling to be around while on reduced screen time. I became more lax in this issue lately (due to his superb behaviour during his reduced screen time) and today saw a side of him (not a good side : ) i had not seen for months. I am not trying to make this about me, just agreeing with the previous poster about how screens negatively affect some kids behaviour.

To be fair though, a 3 month old is a big adjustment, and have a sick toddler to boot is no fun. I get that she is being rude (not ok) but perhaps you are sleep deprived and stressed which is not helping? Time may take care of some of this nonsense - hang in there! (((HUGS)))

Kathy

[DoctorGirlfriend]

Originally Posted by aniT

I neither consider our family "blended" nor did I considered her siblings "half." They are her sisters and brother and that is that! That term annoys the living hell out of me. DH learned that quickly when he tried to call my little bro my "half" bro. My "half" siblings are my "dad's" kids that I don't know. NOT my little bro who I grew up with in the same house with, who's diapers I changed, and who I baby sat for FREE from 13-16 when my mom though she would quit work and play mommy. KWIM?

It's great that you have this attitude, but it doesn't mean your DD has to.

Could be she's at the age where she's really pondering some issues with her bio father...your comments about your conversation with her about pictures are what make me say that. And don't get me wrong, it sounds like the guy is just a mess...but how hard for a 9 yo to have to know that her bio dad wants nothing to do with her.

[aniT]

She is 13 dh and I have been married 9 years. As far as the sperm donor goes... she will get over it, I did. Of course I had at least meet my sperm donor.

[dharmamama]

My husband does the same thing that you describe. His big one is "Maybe you shouldn't ..." and the kids look at him like, "Yeah, but maybe I should!"

If I want my kids to do something and it's non-negotiable, I am very direct. In your situation, I would have said, "Hold your brother while I take care of your sister. Thank you."

As far as her verbal abuse of her siblings, I would not tolerate that. I understand that your dd is probably having a rough time right now, but your younger daughter has more of a right to live her life free of verbal abuse than your older daughter has to act our her angst.

If it were me, I would sit down with my older dd and say something like, "It seems to me that you really resent it when I ask for your help around the house. Can you tell me why?" Depending on what she says, try to work with her so that she gets some of what she wants and you get some of what you want. But I would make it very clear that verbally abusing her sister will result in immediate loss of privileges that will be difficult to regain. Talk to her about other ways she can handle her anger and offer some special times with just you.

I am of the opinion that in most situations, kids bear some of the responsibility for their behavior, no matter how hormonal or angsty or whatever they are. Yes, kids definitely have a right to feel and express their feelings. No, they do not have a right to be cruel about it. Try to find a way that you and your daughter can meet somewhere in the middle on this.

Namaste!

[cjanelles]

I'm confused that so many people are suggesting that this child has no responsibility to "Help out" when Mom asks for some assistance with the little kids.

I have read a million responses on this very board about how to promote "family think" among kids, that we're "all in this together" and that "family helps each other"...yet, this clear division that she shouldn't be asked to "Help" with the new kids because they're "Mom's new family, not her's" is really prominent.

I disagree, obviously, that Mom shouldn't be able to ask DD for help with the little kids. Her daughter is old enough to contribute to the ease and flow within the family--HER FAMILY--and is simply being self-involved and punishing her mother. That's not ok. We're supposed to tiptoe around our kids, especially our older ones, and make sure that their wishes are respected, but it seems to be at the expense of other family members, too.

Family works together. Period. That's what family is. That's what family does.

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by aniT

She is 13 dh and I have been married 9 years. As far as the sperm donor goes... she will get over it, I did. Of course I had at least meet my sperm donor.

I think it's totally great that you got over it....but I NEVER got over my sperm donor now wanting me. She's right around the age where I really started having problems with it too. I was about 12. It took a lot of counseling for me to just come to terms with it, but I NEVER got over it. Maybe some counseling would help her. I'd also not expect her to help with her siblings....unless you got permission from her before having them. I'd TOTALLY give her plenty of household chores though. If she's unwilling to help with childcare she can help take the weight off your shoulders in other ways. If you weren't having to do as much housework it'd probably be much easier on you to care for the little ones....so she'd be helping in an indirect way. I'd be worried that the baby would feel the dislike eminating from her if she was forced to hold him...and that could be damaging for him too.

-Heather

[aniT]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

I think it's totally great that you got over it....but I NEVER got over my sperm donor now wanting me. She's right around the age where I really started having problems with it too. I was about 12. It took a lot of counseling for me to just come to terms with it, but I NEVER got over it. Maybe some counseling would help her. I'd also not expect her to help with her siblings....unless you got permission from her before having them. I'd TOTALLY give her plenty of household chores though. If she's unwilling to help with childcare she can help take the weight off your shoulders in other ways. If you weren't having to do as much housework it'd probably be much easier on you to care for the little ones....so she'd be helping in an indirect way. I'd be worried that the baby would feel the dislike eminating from her if she was forced to hold him...and that could be damaging for him too.

-Heather

Heather, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this. I don't need to get permission from my child before having more children. Who asks their child's permission? My mom sure didn't as for MY permission before having more children.

Giving her more chores is not going to help me on the rare occasion that I have both the toddler and the baby crying at the same time. My kids are not criers so if they are crying there is a reason. The toddler was sick. The baby was hungry. I wanted to get the toddler to bed so I could take care of the baby. It is that simple. I needed help at THAT moment with the baby, not a clean kitchen.. KWIM?

Also, I talked to her and asked her what her problem was with her brother. Apparently she doesn't like to be spit up on. Additionally, he is boring and just lays there. He can't even grab any toys or play yet. So I am hoping her indifference passes as he gets older and more entertaining.

As for the sperm doner thing, I am sorry you never got over it. But as she gets older and realizes the type of person he is, she will understand that she was better off without him and having a father that cared about her, spent time with her, and who no one was afraid was going to do inappropriate things to her.

I also think if I suggested counciling to her, she would go through the roof. Also, neither DH nor I really believe in it. He was forced to go as a child because his mother thought there was something wrong with him for picking on his sister. He just sat there at ever session and never opened his mouth. He hated the entire ordeal and it is just one more thing he dislikes his mother for. (and believe me, there is a huge list.) Counciling is all find and good for some people, but it is not for everyone.

[moondiapers]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you needed her permission....only that it may not be a good idea to expect her to be partly responsible for a decision that the adults in teh family made without her input. A baby can feel if the person holding him resents that and it can't be good for him to feel that. Also, if she's angry at being forced to help she may treat him more roughly than she means to.

I totally understand what you mean about needing help in the moment...but if she hadn't been home you would have still had to find a way to deal with it on your own. Sometimes in a family siblings have to wait their turn, and it totally sucks when one is sick...but it's a fact of life. My dd was about 3 1/2 when her baby brother was born and dh worked 12 hour graveyard shifts so I totally know where you are coming from and I've been there myself....only there wasn't anyone else in the house even capable of offering me anyhelp so I just had to wing it. Some nights I wanted to tear my hair out.

Maybe you can help her find solutions to her objections...like only asking for help when you just can't do it by yourself without allowing one child to just cry (like the situation you mentioned) and maybe she can slip one of your shirts or dh's shirts on over hers in case the baby spits up etc. Or ahead of time figure out some things she can do while she holds the baby to keep her interest so she isn't bored. Can she use a sling? I haven't been in your exact situation because my kids were too close together for my dd to be of any help...she was almost still a baby herself. But I do know what it's like to have one sick and one crying because he's hungry or lonely while I'm trying to take care of the sick one etc. Too bad you don't have a MDC mama next door that you can call in a pinch

-Heather

[moondiapers]

Oh, I also wanted to add that I don't really know how to help with the attitude since my dd is only 10 right now and we're just starting to see the attitude. I have a hard time being GD when her attitude rear's it's head and I've probably failed miserably at it. My dd did give me attitude on her way out the door once. She was to spend the night with some friends.....I stopped her and canceled the trip. So....I'm a bit more punitive than most I think. I just couldnt' let her go be someone else's headache when she was in that mood, the mom would have never spoken to me again, lol.

[aniT]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

Oh, I also wanted to add that I don't really know how to help with the attitude since my dd is only 10 right now and we're just starting to see the attitude. I have a hard time being GD when her attitude rear's it's head and I've probably failed miserably at it. My dd did give me attitude on her way out the door once. She was to spend the night with some friends.....I stopped her and canceled the trip. So....I'm a bit more punitive than most I think. I just couldnt' let her go be someone else's headache when she was in that mood, the mom would have never spoken to me again, lol.

Now see, I wouldn't have done that and that might be part of the problem. DD thinks she can get away with crap. Sigh.

Also, as far as the sling goes, she won't wear one. When I was putting DS in the sling last night when we went to the store she looked at it with discust and said, "Do you have to wear that? It is embarrassing. Why can't you use a car seat that snaps into the cart like a normal person." She is REALLY fighting anything and everything natural right now.