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Daughters seeing Papa naked - Page 5

Poll Results: Is it okay for your toddler or older aged daughter to see her dad naked?

 
  • 2% (10)
    Not in our house. We are all private about nudity.
  • 9% (45)
    It's split by gender. Girls can see Mama, but not Pop.
  • 37% (172)
    It's not a big deal if it happens.
  • 50% (227)
    What's your hang up? We're all family here.
454 Total Votes  
post #81 of 173
Sexual abuse was a big issue in my family. Just to give you an idea, one of my brothers abused one of my sisters for years. The men were predatory and the women, well...I don't really want to get into all of it. I just wanted to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

And I think the biggest way to help break that cycle and to heal is having a healthy outlook on sex and bodies. I don't want my daughter to fear seeing a penis or a vagina or breasts.
post #82 of 173
My parents were always and still are very open about their bodies and we are about ours but then our children are only 4.5 and 18 months things may change in time to come.
post #83 of 173
I voted "no big deal if it happens". Dh doesn't walk around the house naked, and he takes his boxers in the bathroom with him when he goes to shower. DD's are pretty good about knocking before going in the bathroom, so I don't know that it ever has happened.
post #84 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by hottmama View Post
You honestly think a baby (still in diapers!!!) should feel uncomfortable having another caregiver change their diaper?!
Or a 3 yr. old shouldn't be naked in front of people?!

I changed my son from clothes-->trunks-->clothes outside by the pool all the time last summer, at 3.5. Until recently (3? 3.5?) he spent every second at home naked, including when guests were over. He'll happily play naked with his friends, now (which happened fairly recently when they decided to jump in a little garden pond at a friend's potluck). I feel proud that he is so comfortable with his body and not modest or self-conscious.
I don't think raising confident children who are comfortable with nudity leads to sexual abuse. My child is not AT ALL ashamed of his body and would not hesitate to tell me if anyone did anything to him (trust me, the kid was born a tattletale).
Yes, that works for them. If some stranger walked up to my kids and asked to 'change' their diapers, they wouldn't think twice. Abuse happens in all forms, even w/in many families. Now I don't have this problem b/c I am w/ my children all the time, I change diapers when needed or DH and sometimes grandma, rarely anyone outside that. Now if her 2yo were in daycare ft and was often changed by others, this might be a problem.

I personally don't see the reasoning in letting a child play naked in front of everyone and their dog. My kids are comfortable w/ their bodies and they're comfortable w/ mine and are naked a lot of the day too. Kids need to wear clothes though when it is appropriate. How do you teach your kids that not everyone needs to see them naked when you let everyone see them naked? My kids are naked when it's appropriate. I don't fear changing their clothes in a locker room for swim lessons or changing their diaper in public, but I do fear them not knowing when it's appropriate for them to be naked and when it's not.
post #85 of 173
I have no problems with families setting their own standards about 'comfort levels' for nudity. Some families would prefer to be dressed down to their shoes, others would run around nekkid all day if given the opportunity.

I do have a problem with someone stating that a one year old baby seeing his opposite sex parent nude will cause sexual arrousal. That's a very different (and very disturbing) statement.
post #86 of 173
I voted whats your hangup lol. We only have two boys right now but I mean really, we ARE family and personally I'd be pissed if someone told me to cover up in my own home. DH's dad was open about nudity-he was the oldest of ten kids! Someone's bound to see someone naked in a family that large, and he was only about ten when his mother died, so he dressed, bathed, even braided his sisters' hair because there was no one else that could do it. Nudity is no problem here. I take baths sometimes with our 17mo. He pokes my boobies sometimes If/when we have a girl I doubt DH is going to go to extreme lengths to cover up.
post #87 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepeach80 View Post
I personally don't see the reasoning in letting a child play naked in front of everyone and their dog. My kids are comfortable w/ their bodies and they're comfortable w/ mine and are naked a lot of the day too. Kids need to wear clothes though when it is appropriate. How do you teach your kids that not everyone needs to see them naked when you let everyone see them naked? My kids are naked when it's appropriate. I don't fear changing their clothes in a locker room for swim lessons or changing their diaper in public, but I do fear them not knowing when it's appropriate for them to be naked and when it's not.
Kids are great at understanding context, IME. My oldest son will be 4 tomorrow, and while he thinks it's fun to run naked in a friend's house, he wouldn't strip down in the grocery store. And he doesn't let anyone, even me, touch his penis, because it's too sensitive.
post #88 of 173
I voted "it's not a big deal". My ds (4) has seen me naked - usually after coming out of the shower. Dd is 20 months and sees dh naked - once again usually after bathing. We still sometimes take family baths. We are not uncomfortable with anything yet.
post #89 of 173
Cute story:
DD was taking a shower with my husband and she pointed to his penis asking,"What's that?"
Dh: It's a penis. That's what boys have.
dd: Oh. I can't wait to be a boy, so I can have one of those!

Cracked me up!
post #90 of 173
Dh is actually more modest around the boys than I am. Until recently ds2 had separation anxiety and I could not go to the bathroom with the door closed or leave it closed for a shower, so ds1 saw me a lot. We're working with him on closed bathroom doors=private, even for mommy (he gets that for daddy & grandma, but since he's never had to deal with me wanting privacy before, it's weird for him. Both kids regularly are around when I get changed and ds1 took pictures at ds2's birth. I don't think it's a big deal. I do find it a bit weird that my mother doesn't have a problem changing in front of them, but she's never had a problem changing in front of me either.
post #91 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papooses View Post
Yes, exactly -- but when nudity is so commonly portrayed as sexualized & kids see this in brief images everywhere by the time they begin really thinking about their bodies, seeing the parents naked is associated with sexualized images & the stress is shown by increased heart rate, etc.... If it's a homeschooling family without TV, this probably isn't an issue whatsoever, but in most of America & other such nations, it is very real (as is the stigma & continued relative silence).

Hmmmm...I see your point, however I don't think that's how it should be (ideally). To me it's similar to nursing in public. It's just a matter of people getting used to seeing breasts used for nursing. I think we as a society need to grow up and be okay with nudity in situations other than sex.
post #92 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papooses View Post
I'm all for helping Leila feel confident with her self, her body & people in general.... However, I was also sexually abused as a preschooler by my neighbor/tutor -- my method of coping with this added dynamic to parenting a girl was to research child gender + sexual development, discuss with therapists who help child victims of sexual abuse, etc. Leila's Daddy is also an OBGYN so she knows the proper names for all body parts thanks to his educational posters (used to explain the basics to non-native refugees & teen patients) & the "G" version of what each body part is for (she knows Daddies have sperm that are like seeds which implant Mommies' eggs & babies grow in wombs, but she hasn't asked how the sperm get into Mommies so I haven't offered the information either).... Our basic rules are:
  • her entire body is only hers & our job as her parents is to make sure NO one touches her body unless she wants them to
  • that she can always trust her feelings & tell us if a touch feels funny or painful or scary or confusing
  • everyone in the family is granted privacy in the bathroom except Mommy is the parent who will help her if she asks for me
  • we wear at least as much as we would at the beach around the rest of the house
Seeing adults' genitalia can & does produce confusion + arousal in most children: this can be considered sexual abuse even when there is no other sexual activity -- because it disrupts the child's natural discovery of the human body & triggers anxiety over what their own body will become.... Some basic guidelines are:
  • parent of the opposite sex should stop being in the nude when the child is about 1 year of age
  • child should not see the same sex parent in the nude after about 4 years of age
  • child should ALWAYS innitiate conversation about their maturing body unless the topic has not been raised during the Middle School years, in which case the parents MUST innitiate the conversation before the child is immersed in High School
None of this means the child will be scared of nudity -- it's more likely that a child will be intimidated by nudity when exposed to adult nudity more often & it is also more likely that a child will be intimidated by nudity when the parent uses other overt or even covert methods to associate sex with shame: such as, saying "ew" at media images of scantily clad women, covering a child's eyes during sex scenes instead of simply choosing more appropriate programming, etc. Two recommended readings:
I agree of somewhat of what you said. Although this statement right here
"child should not see the same sex parent in the nude after about 4 years of age"
i do not have any kids right now but i am pregnant with my first. however. i still remember pretty much everything from what happened with this issue of being naked with my own family. i disgaree with that statement of being 4 and not aloud to see the SAME sex parent naked. most 4 year olds cant bathe themselves or take showers by themselves. my mom and i took showers together until i started to go through puberty, and i stopped because well hello akward lol! but i see nothing wrong with showering with teh same sex if it is with your Mother. i even bathed with friends (my own age) but for an adult i would only bathe with my Mom and right now im 16 years old, and i feel nothing wrong with how i turned out. naked is a natural thing and when i have my child, sure ill probably be like ok they can only see me naked(if its a girl) or DH naked. you know what i mean? they are very curious around 4 and its better to open them up with curiosity. and i think as long as you dont touch them innapropreitly and they dont touch you in spots that you dont want to be touched while naked it isnt considered Sexual Abuse. if they are uncomfortable then dont do it.

<33 Italy
post #93 of 173
I haven't had a chance to read every post, but I've been thinking about this thread more & took time away to try to focus myself on the issue in hopes of better presenting my view -- I believe that in the world of cyberspace there are a lot of miscommunications & misunderstandings....

What I presented has been taught to me by reliable professionals through an American perspective: since I have great difficulty trusting my own self with such issues because of my own trauma as a young child, I choose to seek educated individuals who I can trust to help me find what is best for MY family -- I tried to present what I learned by taking the average US family into consideration: AP parents are not usually the norm, so, fortunately, much of what I expressed may not apply to many here....

However, I feel the need personally to stress the fact that while we are more aware now than in the past, the rates of sexual abuse (2/3 of all women before the age of 12, 1/4 of all men) are still a low estimate. Also, when at least 90%of perpetrators are trusted family members or friends + the younger the child the more susceptible to emotional blackmail & the less likely to express their pain in ways that lovign adults understand ... it is still so urgent that kids develop boundaries very early in life!

Boundaries do not mean that we make children afraid of or uncomfortable by seing genitalia. It simply means that we provide the example that our bodies are private. If our own family sees us naked on occasion, then we do not freak out about it, but continue to provide the example that even looking CAN be abusive. Kids trust their parents. Kids also learn to trust family friends & relatives. If it's safe to bath with a parent, then why wouldn't they think it's safe to bath with their uncle? Then if uncle touches them, it's more likely that a child who bathes with their parents will feel that THEY did something wrong if they feel wrong & not report what their uncle did - or at the very least, not use specific enough words that adults can understand....

I thought perhaps you all might appreciate it if I opened up a bit to reveal some of my personal history as it relates to this subject?

I was sexually abused by my parents' basement tenant who was also my babysitter while my father was away & my mother need to do chores & this person also tutored me (I was "gifted"). At 4 years old, we all trusted this college student. At first he would simply call me in while I was playing outside while my parents were right at home upstairs & he would show me various media of porn. Since I had highschool aged siblings, I'd seen some scraps of porn stuffed away where they thought it was hidden. I was showering with my mom during this time & all of this continued until I was 7 years old. Even before the tenant moved in I became slightly aroused & confused in the shower with my mother after seeing my siblings' hidden porn -- it had created the connection between nakedness & sex. But by 7 I began to enjoy watching the porn in the basement & my perpetrator noticed this -- he progressed to touching me & having me touch him.... He worked me up into craving it. This caused such intense shame because at the same time my parents were teaching me not to let anyone touch me "down there" & to tell -- but I had tried telling! I said I thought *he* was YUCKY. I wash ashmed to say anything more for fear that I would get into trouble because I liked it, because I sought it out. I didn't understand that I was not responsible for this, that my perp had caused all that. So years went by of daily sexual abuse & none of my 5 family members ever noticed. They still don't know because 20+ years later I still have such intense shame that I can't face them about it even though I KNOW I didn't nothing wrong back then. FWIW, my DD self weaned around her 4th birthday & I have allowed her to "test the Leche" since when she's asked (she's turning 5 tomorrow)

My parents did everything "right" in regards to protecting me (my perp only had mere moments at a time, but he still got to me right under my parents' noses) -- I can barely function as a mother when I imagine all that could happen to my DD right in front of me ... so I do more than what is "normal" -- I teach her to love her own body, to respect herself & to value when other people respect themselves by wanting privacy, but to also value the naturalness of the human body as a divine source of knowing one's self -- I focus on simply knowing herself well enough to know what feels comfortable & what doesn't.

What's right for each family always varries & I respect each parents' decision ... I hope that no one here thinks I have tried to force my own way upon anyone else -- it's just that I tend to function under the premise that there isn't enough awareness yet & so I often toss out as much information as I can in an attempt to keep my emotional side separate from the issue so that I do not end up spewing harsh oppinions based solely on my own unfortunate experiences & fears.

PEACE
post #94 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papooses View Post
I haven't had a chance to read every post, but I've been thinking about this thread more & took time away to try to focus myself on the issue in hopes of better presenting my view -- I believe that in the world of cyberspace there are a lot of miscommunications & misunderstandings....

What I presented has been taught to me by reliable professionals through an American perspective: since I have great difficulty trusting my own self with such issues because of my own trauma as a young child, I choose to seek educated individuals who I can trust to help me find what is best for MY family -- I tried to present what I learned by taking the average US family into consideration: AP parents are not usually the norm, so, fortunately, much of what I expressed may not apply to many here....

However, I feel the need personally to stress the fact that while we are more aware now than in the past, the rates of sexual abuse (2/3 of all women before the age of 12, 1/4 of all men) are still a low estimate. Also, when at least 90%of perpetrators are trusted family members or friends + the younger the child the more susceptible to emotional blackmail & the less likely to express their pain in ways that lovign adults understand ... it is still so urgent that kids develop boundaries very early in life!

Boundaries do not mean that we make children afraid of or uncomfortable by seing genitalia. It simply means that we provide the example that our bodies are private. If our own family sees us naked on occasion, then we do not freak out about it, but continue to provide the example that even looking CAN be abusive. Kids trust their parents. Kids also learn to trust family friends & relatives. If it's safe to bath with a parent, then why wouldn't they think it's safe to bath with their uncle? Then if uncle touches them, it's more likely that a child who bathes with their parents will feel that THEY did something wrong if they feel wrong & not report what their uncle did - or at the very least, not use specific enough words that adults can understand....

I thought perhaps you all might appreciate it if I opened up a bit to reveal some of my personal history as it relates to this subject?

I was sexually abused by my parents' basement tenant who was also my babysitter while my father was away & my mother need to do chores & this person also tutored me (I was "gifted"). At 4 years old, we all trusted this college student. At first he would simply call me in while I was playing outside while my parents were right at home upstairs & he would show me various media of porn. Since I had highschool aged siblings, I'd seen some scraps of porn stuffed away where they thought it was hidden. I was showering with my mom during this time & all of this continued until I was 7 years old. Even before the tenant moved in I became slightly aroused & confused in the shower with my mother after seeing my siblings' hidden porn -- it had created the connection between nakedness & sex. But by 7 I began to enjoy watching the porn in the basement & my perpetrator noticed this -- he progressed to touching me & having me touch him.... He worked me up into craving it. This caused such intense shame because at the same time my parents were teaching me not to let anyone touch me "down there" & to tell -- but I had tried telling! I said I thought *he* was YUCKY. I wash ashmed to say anything more for fear that I would get into trouble because I liked it, because I sought it out. I didn't understand that I was not responsible for this, that my perp had caused all that. So years went by of daily sexual abuse & none of my 5 family members ever noticed. They still don't know because 20+ years later I still have such intense shame that I can't face them about it even though I KNOW I didn't nothing wrong back then. FWIW, my DD self weaned around her 4th birthday & I have allowed her to "test the Leche" since when she's asked (she's turning 5 tomorrow)

My parents did everything "right" in regards to protecting me (my perp only had mere moments at a time, but he still got to me right under my parents' noses) -- I can barely function as a mother when I imagine all that could happen to my DD right in front of me ... so I do more than what is "normal" -- I teach her to love her own body, to respect herself & to value when other people respect themselves by wanting privacy, but to also value the naturalness of the human body as a divine source of knowing one's self -- I focus on simply knowing herself well enough to know what feels comfortable & what doesn't.

What's right for each family always varries & I respect each parents' decision ... I hope that no one here thinks I have tried to force my own way upon anyone else -- it's just that I tend to function under the premise that there isn't enough awareness yet & so I often toss out as much information as I can in an attempt to keep my emotional side separate from the issue so that I do not end up spewing harsh oppinions based solely on my own unfortunate experiences & fears.

PEACE
Wow Mama, I am so sorry for the events that happened to you. That's truly heart breaking. I admire you for coming out and telling your story.

I am trying to understand where you are coming from, as a sexually abused child. And I do see your point. However, I think to each family there own.
I grew up with my mom walking around naked alot, just getting ready etc.
It never bothered me, I really never even batted an eye. But, I was never sexually abused. I never saw porn until I was 18. But, I was sexually active around 16. But, still my mom being nude was just normal to me. I a way I am glad that she showed me that the body is not a sexual thing, its just a "body". But, as you know my experience was not like yours..

I also teach my son (4) that his body is private when not in our family.
Its odd because my nieces (6) mom is VERY private and has tried to get her to be private and she is not even as close to being as private as my son. She leaves the door open to the bath room, and the other day she took her pants off in front of my son and said look at my butt. My son would not do that. He knows that his body is private and not for showing people beside mom, dad, gma and papa. But, he wont even with my parents he "slams" the bathroom door shut when he goes. I dont know what we have done different than my sister in law. It could just be personalities... But, I just found it odd that what she was trying to create with not being open about her own body is making her daughter act out.
post #95 of 173
Tiffany, I am sincerely sorry about what happened to you. No one should ever experience such things.

BUT. The way you presented your information is still offensive to many of us. If it is the way you choose to have *your* family live- by all means, that is your choice.

It would not be a healthy way for *my* family to live.

Please respect that.

-Angela
post #96 of 173
Papooses, I feel great sympathy for you. You went through a horrible experience. I hope you understand by now that you were a VICTIM and bore absolutely no responsibility in what happened to you!!!! I hope that time will slowly heal your pain, and I am glad that you felt able to share this with us.


Still I hope you can examine what you have said....that a toddler/preschooler should not see his parent naked past 1 year of age, or he will become sexually aroused. There is certainly no scientific evidence toward this being a fact. As the matter of fact, I think it is contrary to common sense. We learn about our bodies through natural and innocent exposure. Your exposure to pornography and your subsequent abuse WARPED that for you. A two year old male, for example, is certainly not being abused by nursing.

I hope we have given you some things to think about
post #97 of 173
I hear what you are saying Papoose and I see the connection between porn and abuse.

What I cannot accept is that a child's comfort or confidence in his or her naked body or the 'normalness' of seeing their parents naked is related to abuse.

Abusers will abuse a child whether they are naked or dressed. The wrongness is in the abusers mind, not within the family's acceptance of each other's bodies.
post #98 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papooses View Post
However, I feel the need personally to stress the fact that while we are more aware now than in the past, the rates of sexual abuse (2/3 of all women before the age of 12, 1/4 of all men) are still a low estimate. Also, when at least 90%of perpetrators are trusted family members or friends + the younger the child the more susceptible to emotional blackmail & the less likely to express their pain in ways that lovign adults understand ... it is still so urgent that kids develop boundaries very early in life!

PEACE
I just can't believe these numbers are true. Are you really saying that 2 out of 3 women are abused before the age of 12? I don't believe it.
post #99 of 173
Yes, that's what I'm saying. This is what research tells us.

I didn't post my story for support, but I thank you all!

I'm short on time (sick kid + college courses), so I want you all to know that although my response is short, it's not because my mood is....

If you re-read what I've written, you'll notice that it is based on research as was told to me through various reliable sources. You'll also notice that I do respect you. I respect you because I realize that parents here are more likely to be emotionally attuned with their children than the general American public, which HELPS reduce the risk.

Children seeing adult genitalia increases their risk, just as spanking increases risk. Neither is illegal per se, but neither is the ideal either. My main point in all this has been that parents OFTEN do not know when their children are sexually abused & children are surprisingly adept at developing coping mechanisms which protect their parents from discovering the secret. My other point being that there are other healthy ways to foster positive body image + sense of self (as well as confidence, etc) without increasing risk of the other.

I think I do not wish to discuss this anymore, though. I shared something personal & have made all the connections between my story & real life & the risks. It's up to others to either accept or reject. Because it's such a deeply disturbing issue, I do not wish to try to *persuade* anyone. It is personal for each of us. There is no right or wrong, only shades of preferences. But, I am beginning to feel more emotional about it now so I believe it's best if I refrain from the thread now.
post #100 of 173
Actually, everything I've read and professionals I've talked to have said the complete opposite of what you have posted.
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