Ear infections by age two & vaccinations - Page 5

[love2all]

No ear infections and no vaxes..

[mamakay]

I shouldn't have voted. I bet the pool is being skewed by people like me who did one round (or two)...got no ear infections...and voted as a non-vaxer.

Some partial vaxers might have GOTTEN ear infections, and then voted "did vaccinate" as a result.

We should restart the poll with a strict criteria for who gets to vote as what.

[AikeaGuinea]

some of mine did, some didn't, and mine were all vaxed the same...I think it depends on many other factors besides vaccination, for instance, whether or not your child is in daycare, exposed to a lot of colds, has older sibs bringing home germs from school, etc.

[Carma]

Originally Posted by mamakay

I shouldn't have voted. I bet the pool is being skewed by people like me who did one round (or two)...got no ear infections...and voted as a non-vaxer.

Some partial vaxers might have GOTTEN ear infections, and then voted "did vaccinate" as a result.

We should restart the poll with a strict criteria for who gets to vote as what.

I agree that could skew things. But also the argument that was mentioned that vaxers end up earlier at the doc with mild earinfections while non-vaxers would stay home with the same symptoms and not know there was a (mild) earinfection could play a role.
And maybe other factors should be in the poll also, like daycare. Maybe vaxers are more likely to SAH and nonvaxers to breastfeed for example.

carma

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by tiffer23

There are far more sources than the one you posted. I don't draw my conclusions from one single place.

Of course. So please provide me with research that shows that the information I provided is inaccurate. We aren't talking about a study showing that your genes are important. In order to debunk this study, you would have to look at a similar study that determined whether or not breastfeeding specifically neutralized any negative impact that genetic variations had on a child's tendency to develop ear infections.

This study passed peer review and was just published last month. Any studies prior to that which did not examine how breastfeeding may or may not overcome the relevance of genetic variations do not prove that you're right. A study proving that lack of breastmilk isn't a trigger for "turning on" the genetic tendency towards ear infections might do so, but just looking at old studies from 1, 5 or 10 years ago that never measured such a thing will not and cannot.

I don't draw my conclusions from one single place either, although your suggestion that I do is an interesting way to deflect conversation when you have yet to reply with any actual facts to support your claim that genetics are the "most important" factor in developing ear infections. Believing something because it's your opinion is your own business. Stating it as though it's fact, without providing any evidence to support your claims, makes it everyone else's business.

Again, anyone interested in the facts about the difference between your genes making you sick and your environment or other triggers making you sick, should look into epigenetics. Genes don't make you sick unless you have a genetic disease. Ear infections aren't a genetic disease.

I'm not trying to "fuss" either. It isn't about that. It's about sharing the newest, best information available. If we aren't here to learn something new, what's the point? Why would we want to hold onto old, outdated dogmatic views of the world? I used to think my daughter's genes gave her dental problems. I had to go through the same denial you're going through about this, but in the end, facts are facts and genes don't make you sick.

[my3peanuts]

Originally Posted by mamakay

I shouldn't have voted. I bet the pool is being skewed by people like me who did one round (or two)...got no ear infections...and voted as a non-vaxer.

Some partial vaxers might have GOTTEN ear infections, and then voted "did vaccinate" as a result.

We should restart the poll with a strict criteria for who gets to vote as what.

I agree.

DD1 is fully vaccinated and has never had an ear infection.
DD2 has had all vaccinations except the MMR and varicella and she has tubes in from having so many ear infections.
DS has had his 2 month shots and he too has recurrent ear infections.

So that really doesn't tell me anything in my case!

[aprildawn]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Again, anyone interested in the facts about the difference between your genes making you sick and your environment or other triggers making you sick, should look into epigenetics. Genes don't make you sick unless you have a genetic disease. Ear infections aren't a genetic disease.

Plummeting -- thanks for that link. I looked at the article, though it wasn't obvious where I could see the whole study. And, frankly, even if I did see the whole thing it would take me awhile to sift through the entire study.

Can you help me understand? Here's what I think understand --

Genetics don't *make you sick* unless it's a genetic disease. Ear infections aren't a genetic disease. Rather, there's a genetic predisposition towards having them. Breastfeeding cancels out this predisposition.

If I understand what you're saying and what that article says, I don't understand why my DD2 got *so many friggin' ear infections.* (OT: There was another interesting article on that same site about the lower quality of life and the stress on parents of children with repeat ear infections. I relate.)
So, would vaxes, food allergies, stress, exposure to cold viruses, or something else be what caused them? Could the vaxes, food allergies, stress or other cancel out the canceling out effect of breastfeeding? (does that even make sense?)

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by aprildawn

Plummeting -- thanks for that link. I looked at the article, though it wasn't obvious where I could see the whole study. And, frankly, even if I did see the whole thing it would take me awhile to sift through the entire study.

You'll have to go to the library. I haven't found it online either.

Can you help me understand? Here's what I think understand --

Genetics don't *make you sick* unless it's a genetic disease. Ear infections aren't a genetic disease. Rather, there's a genetic predisposition towards having them. Breastfeeding cancels out this predisposition.

EXACTLY!

If I understand what you're saying and what that article says, I don't understand why my DD2 got *so many friggin' ear infections.* (OT: There was another interesting article on that same site about the lower quality of life and the stress on parents of children with repeat ear infections. I relate.)
So, would vaxes, food allergies, stress, exposure to cold viruses, or something else be what caused them? Could the vaxes, food allergies, stress or other cancel out the canceling out effect of breastfeeding? (does that even make sense?)

I don't know why your daughter got so many ear infections. I don't think food allergies or stress would necessarily have to be influencing the "ear infection" genes to make a child susceptible to ear infections. I think allergies and stress can make you sick all on their own, without any genetic susceptibility necessary, kwim? Allergies would have a special propensity for causing ear infections, since ear infections often occur after an illness that causes congestion. I don't think vaccines would necessarily cancel out the canceling out effect (that sounds funny, doesn't it?), because the kids in the study would have been vaccinated. I do think being vaccinated might increase the risk of ear infections, though.

I'm sure there are other genetic variations that might one day be associated with ear infections, but just haven't been studied yet, and maybe those variations won't be affected by breastfeeding. But that still doesn't mean they would cause chronic ear infections. Susceptibility isn't the same thing as cause. My daughter was genetically susceptible to dental problems. But those genes that left her susceptible to tooth decay serve some other purpose. The fact that we don't know exactly what benefit there is to a gene associated with the propensity to disease X does not mean that there is no benefit. We just don't know what it is. There's a reeeeaaaaallllllly easy description of it in the book Genome. I read it before DD was born and had totally forgotten it was in there. I was carrying the "her genes gave her cavities" banner for months, until a friend told me it wasn't possible (except in the case of one or two specific X-linked genetic malformations of the enamel). Then I remembered I had already read that. Doh. So my daughter's genes didn't give her cavities. They serve some beneficial (if unidentified) purpose in the evolutionary scheme of things. What gave her cavities was probably my own nutritional deficiencies during pregnancy.

[aprildawn]

Thanks. That helps me understand better.

DD2 is almost always the exception to the rule on things. She got tons of ear infections despite breastfeeding. She had a really bad reaction to MMR (rashes, fever, lethargy, etc.). She had a bad reaction to the anesthesia when she had her tubes placed (requiring hospitalization). Seriously, if a doctor says "it's uncommon" or "rare" for a kid to have a reaction. Or if medical literature says it's "uncommon" or "rare" it's gonna happen to her!

So, if it's uncommon or rare for breastfed kids to have a bazillion ear infections, it makes sense it would happen to my DD2! Poor girl.

[CCChanel]

DS1 had a few ear infections last year. No vax. BF.

[CCChanel]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Allergies would have a special propensity for causing ear infections, since ear infections often occur after an illness that causes congestion.

I agree with this... when I decreased the babies dairy consumption their congestion cleared very fast ... and they have been well ever since.

I also use garlic mullein oil in DS1's ears when I notice him pulling on them occasionally.

[FreeRangeMama]

No vax, yet 2 out of 3 of my kids have had infections. In fact my dd may need tubes because she has so many problems with fluid build up that she has mild hearing loss and is severely speech delay. She never had dairy until recently and was exclusively breastfed until near 12 months and had almost no interest in solids until almost 15 months. My oldest gets ear infections every time he has a cold. I tried abx once (at 8 months) and it nearly killed him, so we haven't used them since.

We are "lucky" I guess. We are healthy, use nothing toxic, eat well (whole foods), don't vax, don't use conventional meds, yet my oldest has autism, severe allergies, and asthma and my youngest has ear problems and likely allergies. We even CLW. Even doing everything "right" offers no guarantees.

[Tigeresse]

All my kids have had a few vax, dd the most before we adopted her. Only ds1 has had an ear infection, I suspect it was related to the old DPT. Even dd who was not breasfed has never had one in my care, but I did start her on a regimine of probiotics that may have helped compensate for the lack of breastmilk.

[LeslieB]

No vaxes, 2 mild ear infections. bf. DS is 11 months old.

[D'smomma]

ok I messed up... I checked yes and I didn't vax him (because he is no longer being vaxed) But, I should have checked yes and I did vax him because at the time of his only ear infection he was being vaxed (5 vax's total). That was the one and only ear infection he has ever had.

[Patchfire]

Well, I answered for ds - totally non-vaxed and no ear infections. I could have responded for dd, though - partially vaxed and an ear infection around age 18 months. Either way you slice it, it seems to favor the non-vaxing side of things. (Shocking!)

[DevaMajka]

oh, crud. I voted all completely wrong. lol.
I voted "no, and dc is vaxed" because he was fully vaxed to 12mos (the vast majority, including being fully vaxed with prevnar, iirc).

But then *right* after I clicked vote, I remembered that he DID have an ear infection (though I doubt I would have known if we hadn't had a wbv)

[minxin]

DS just turned 4, never vaxed, never had an ear infection. He's the first non-ear-infection kid on both sides of the family that any living family member can recall. He's also still nursing a few times a week. I attribute his health to the combination of BF and non-vax. My family all think i'm insane for both of those choices, and my son's awesome health is pure coincidence. :

[PJsmomma]

My son is 6.
No vaxxes and never an ear infection.

I nursed him, no vax and chiropractor--I'm certain it all works together

[coobabysmom]

I probably shouldn't have voted because ds is only 15 mos. BUT I did!

Ds is un-vaxed, bf, hasn't had an ear infection. I might add that ds is in a home day care w/ 4-5 other vaxed children 5 days a wk. I think a few of these children have had recent ear infections, but I'm not entirely sure...

We also see a chiro and take probiotics.