LOST-season 3 second half - Page 32

[CherieBerry]

Originally Posted by magstphil

so they're gone for good? sucks for the actors but i hated the characters.

Getting out of their LOST contracts was probably the best thing for the actors.

Rodrigo can use the success of '300' to land better roles either here or back in Brazil.

And Kylie just landed a spot on the pilot for the US version of the UK hit FOOTBALLERS WIVES.

[BookGoddess]

Whoo boy - you wrote a novel there, AmyC! :

I also thought it was stupid of Paolo to leave the diamonds inside the toilet of a place he knew was visited by other people. The first thing you do if the toilet doesn't work is open the tank. Duh! It's not like the doll within a doll (I forget what they're called) is hard to miss. It might have been better to bury the diamonds inland in a spot that's easy to find. I thought burying the diamonds on the beach was really dumb. I'm no scientist but even I know about waves, erosion, high tides, etc.

This is OT but isn't the actor who played Paolo playing King Xerxes in the film 300?

I KNOW what you mean about the gum. When Nikki confronted Paolo about the gum I was yelling at the screen. "Tell her you found some in Sawyer's stash!!" It's not like nicorette gum is so uncommon. Lots of people have it. I found it odd that Nikki jumped from the gum to the assumption Paolo had the diamonds.

As for Ethan blabbering on, I thought it was a device to show us now, in hindsight, the clues to him being an Other. Someone who is telling the truth doesn't feel the need to give many details because he knows he's telling the truth. Someone who is lying has an internal dialogue going on so he feels compelled to add more to make the story seem credible, KWIM?

Why didn't Ben and Juliette realize Paolo was entering the Pearl Station? I remember the first time Locke and Kate entered the Pearl Station, they set off some sort of perimeter device that alerted Desmond to their presence. You'd think the Pearl Station would have something similar since it was in use.

[CowsRock]

When Ben and Juliette came into the main room of the Pearl Station Ben was in the middle of saying something along the lines of "who would have left it open. Have someone cover it." Something like that, so he did acknowledge something being open. Why he wouldn't investigate whether someone is there is weird I think.

The way I saw Paolo leaving the diamonds in a place that wasn't necessarily safe once I saw the entire episode, was that he was telling the truth that his only concern with the diamonds was that if Nikki found them she wouldn't need him anymore and they would drive them apart. If that was his only concern then it wouldn't really matter if The Others found them. Then his reasoning for moving them once he realized people from his own camp were in a position for finding them would have been that if they found them, they would probably announce it and then Nikki would know, so time to move them again. And I don't think he went back there again until the day Locke announced they were going and Nikki volunteered, it would explain his unreasonable annoyance that she wanted to go. Although I will say that hiding them anywhere in any kind of hatch seemed ridiculous to me, but I'm talking from a standpoint that he somehow decided it was a good place to begin with.

If that quote from the Lost exec if accurate and they really did change the plan to quickly write these two off, then I have to say I feel a little dirty. Part of a masterplan is cool. Quick change to get rid of them feels a bit like I got tricked. I'm not saying I loved them after the episode, but I didn't see them as pointless and was willing to see what they did next. And I didn't see this show as the type to bury someone alive and then just let it be. I've given up dissecting this show. I just watch it and what I see is what I get and I don't put a lot of effort into connecting the dots. This was one where I actually did try to connect dots, and now I feel duped.

[SarahJen]

Originally Posted by CowsRock

If that quote from the Lost exec if accurate and they really did change the plan to quickly write these two off, then I have to say I feel a little dirty. Part of a masterplan is cool. Quick change to get rid of them feels a bit like I got tricked. I'm not saying I loved them after the episode, but I didn't see them as pointless and was willing to see what they did next. And I didn't see this show as the type to bury someone alive and then just let it be. I've given up dissecting this show. I just watch it and what I see is what I get and I don't put a lot of effort into connecting the dots. This was one where I actually did try to connect dots, and now I feel duped.

I kind of feel the same way about it now.

[CableGirl]

just a quick comment on the Boone/Shannon/gay thing. First of all, I'm not sure why his sexuality would be an issue for the writers that if he is gay they feel the need to point it out long after his character is dead, but if that's the case, I hope it is relevant somehow. However, unless Boone was wearing a really think beard, he's so not gay. Not only did he sleep with his sister (ok, step-sister) with whom he was obviously harboring secret desires, but in the same episode he had a girlfriend with whom he was playing tennis. Ok, sure, maybe he was faking it so his mother wouldn't find out, but that seems to unlikely.

cowsrock I like your theory re: paolo and the diamonds. That makes the most sense to me.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by zebrabelly

N&P will become more important later on one way or another.

They were referred to as iconic by the writers as recently as the week before this episode, so I think that we will learn in the future the importance of their characters.

Originally Posted by AmyC

The Pearl Station scene (the one with Ben and Juliet) bugged me because Paolo had just brushed off the hatch door and opened it. But Ben and Juliet come along and don't notice that it's completely uncovered?! (Not to mention, what are the chances that Paolo would have CLOSED it behind him?)

When Juliet and Ben are walking into site in the Pearl they are in the middle of a conversation.

Ben: Who left this open?
Juliet: Tom was down here a few days ago.
Ben: Tell him to cover it up with the plane.

It is hard to tell if they came through the door, or if in fact as many are suspecting, they are coming from tunnels. The thing that someone else pointed out (another board) was that the Pearl was used for psychological testing. If the Pearl was attached to other hatches then it would be quickly revealed that their task was an experiment (or give away that the other hatches were being observed) and the documentation was being sent to the middle of the jungle.

Originally Posted by AmyC

Seems Ben and Juliet knew well enough how to see into the Swan Station's goings-on. Which would imply that they were familiar with Kelvin and Desmond and their button-pushing duties, as well (though maybe they weren't privy to the hatch spying at that time, before the crash. Though that seems pretty unlikely.) Not so sure why they seem not to know about the whole button-pushing thing, and the magnetism and all.

If we believe the podcast (which I do) then it seems reasonable to believe that the Others never really ventured to that side of the island until the crash. It is possible that they never knew the other hatch existed (because it was on a need to know basis as stated by the writers), and Ethan only found the Pearl while he was with the crash survivors.

It is clear that they did not know about the goings on of The Swan because they did not know about the boat that Desmond washed ashore on.

Originally Posted by AmyC

I can't remember why we thought there was going to be a connection to "Adam and Eve," but they're not buried anywhere near the caves, right?

There was lots of reference to this being the Adam and Eve of the first season. One thing that seems to make it true is that Adam and Eve were in the cave with a little black bag with stones it in. Paulo and Nikki were buried with a little black bag.

I have a far fetched idea about how it is possible that N&P are A&E. The black rock is in the middle of the jungle. N&P grave was piled very high. Could it be possible that "only fools are enslaved by space" alludes to the island changing shape? It is very out there I know. It is one of those things that we will see in time.

Originally Posted by AmyC

I agree with previous posters (jenandavery?) who said that they had Michael already (took him when he charged their way armed and chasing after Walt) and that they did not take Walt or Michael as part of a plan to get Jack.

Actually I do not think they had Michael yet, but they definitely had Walt. Interestingly according to timelines posted elsewhere Micheal was contacted by "Walt" on the computer the day after we see Ben and Juliet talking about using Michael to get Sawyer, Kate and Jack.

Originally Posted by AmyC

But in the Podcast, the writers said something to minimize or downplay the credibility or importance of the "gay character"....implying either that it wasn't important to the story (it's not) or that it wasn't necessarily definitive or certain (it wasn't.)

In the podcast it was stated "The gay character will appear in "Exposé." It went on to say that it was not going to be pivotal to the story line or overtly obvious. Based on this, that one character is Expose is gay, it would seem to be Boone. I know many gay individuals that have been with the opposite sex. Clearly, it does not seem at all important to the show or the character at this point.

[CarrieMF]

Originally Posted by jenandavery

The reference was to the television show 24.



Yes this is true, but I meant that they never explained why he took it or kept it. We have no idea if he listened to transmissions between the Others.

Sorry I just realized that you actually said that in your post.

Ah, I don't watch 24.

I think we'll find out later why he took it. It wouldn't surprise me if we found out Paolo was working for Dharma.

And as for saving and hiding the jewels, I can understand wanting to find a good hiding place, but what's his rationale?

Alot of this(and the other things you mentioned) are partly why I think he was working for Dharma. The diamonds could have been his ticket out and he was keeping them to use as leverage.

The Pearl Station scene (the one with Ben and Juliet) bugged me because Paolo had just brushed off the hatch door and opened it. But Ben and Juliet come along and don't notice that it's completely uncovered?!

There are many tunnels connecting all of the stations which would be how B&J got there but didn't notice the uncovered hatch

Seems Ben and Juliet knew well enough how to see into the Swan Station's goings-on. Which would imply that they were familiar with Kelvin and Desmond and their button-pushing duties, as well (though maybe they weren't privy to the hatch spying at that time, before the crash. Though that seems pretty unlikely.) Not so sure why they seem not to know about the whole button-pushing thing, and the magnetism and all.

The scene with B&J showed that they do know alot more than what they've been acting like they know and that J was definitly a plant to get Jack to agree to the surgery making me believe that he holding those signs telling him to kill B during surgery was part of B's plan.

It wouldn't surprise me if B&J KNEW that Paolo was in that bathroom and that they left the walkie talkie on purpose as part of a test of trust or for a purpose yet to be shown.

[SharonAnne]

Quote:
The Pearl Station scene (the one with Ben and Juliet) bugged me because Paolo had just brushed off the hatch door and opened it. But Ben and Juliet come along and don't notice that it's completely uncovered?!

There are many tunnels connecting all of the stations which would be how B&J got there but didn't notice the uncovered hatch

Ben did say something to Juliet about the hatch being uncovered. I believe he said that he wanted her to tell Tom to get some guys to cover it up better. Don't have the actual quote, sorry.

[oldcrunchymom]

When did they say Boone was gay? I totally missed that. I thought he had the hots for Shannon!

[AmyC]

So what are you thinking about the crash, now? The whole interconnectedness thing....Claire's psychic ensuring that she would be on that flight, etc. Was Ben "expecting" the crash, or not? (I didn't particularly think his demeanor coming out of the house while the Oceanic flight was crashing indicated that he KNEW it was going to happen, but I know lots of people did.) Did the Others (or related powers that be) have anything to do with the plane coming into their airspace?

I have thought not, but why the cosmic connections and the exhaustive information on the passengers?

If the Others just became privy to the Swan station (and to Pearl station, for that matter) since the crash, when did they get all their info on the survivors? (I always assumed they worked with info/names they got from Goodwin and Ethan, and used online sources to get data on the survivors. Seems like some info would be more forthcoming than other, or easier to obtain at least. Not so sure they could "know everything about everybody" just through that means, the way they project.) But then there's the whole "cosmic" thing, and the growing sense that the Others are more in control, not just adapting to situations but CAUSING them. So which is it?

Good point about the timeline, and Michael getting the "Dad?" message on the computer the next day. That makes excellent sense. And knowing about the Pearl station clarifies my strong sense (at the time) that someone could see Michael at the computer....could see that he was alone, that he was on Hatch Duty right then, that he saw the computer screen, that he was intrigued. And ultimately, that he had played right into their hands.

Having access to Pearl made it very easy for the Others. And that's satisfying. (What was that about when Mikhail reached up and covered the camera, though? Was Pearl station one-way view only?)

Thanks for the mini transcript of Juliet & Ben's initial conversation in the Pearl station. That's satisfying that they did acknowledge that the entrance was disturbed, uncovered. Watching it online, quietly in the room next to my sleeping toddler, meant that I missed a few things. Sorry!

Yes, Paolo did seem pretty transparent....suspicious/jealous of Nikki's interactions with other men, upset that she'd slept with the man she scammed (and they murdered.) Maybe the diamonds meant nothing to him. That would explain his leaving them in a spot he might not return to. (She'd indicated no interest in going into the hatch, for that matter.) I guess that "switch" came after they were on the island, though? I mean, he was cool with murdering the guy in the first place. She was the one demanding the bag, pushing them to search for it, but I'm not sure that she could have pushed him into the whole thing from the very beginning. He must have wanted the diamonds at some point (although obviously, he wanted her and wanted her to be happy, etc. etc. etc. I just think murder was pretty high stakes for someone who cared nothing for the wealth, himself.)

Why didn't he find another hiding place, though? Or for that matter, just pitch them in the ocean, if he really didn't care? He definitely left the "evidence" in the toilet, and if it was Nikki finding out that he was most worried about, that makes little sense.

Not sure that Paolo would have known that Locke's "Pearl Station" was the hatch they'd found, either. (Though explaining his unreasonable annoyance would be nice. That stuck out to me so much in that original episode--not only that we didn't know the characters, which has happened before on the show and was no big deal, but that they were venting in this weird Shannon/Boone dynamic and it made the momentum weird and bumpy for me.)

Heh, another laughable moment when Nikki urges Paolo never to let themselves become "like them," looking after Shannon and Boone. Dude, everyone called you on that one in your first onscreen appearance! (That line coming from Nikki was another case of the writers acknowledging some of the online talk about the show, I'm sure.)

[jillywilson]

Could somebody just wake me when the series is over? Then I'll just read the Cliff Notes. I'm not sure my brain can take any more. :

[AmyC]

A more general point I've been meaning to broach...

About the recent Claire episode, the one when she had black hair in her flashbacks? In the hospital after her mom had been comatose for some time, didn't Claire visit and apologize for all the things she'd said (presumably in the moments before the crash.) I know she visited when she was visibly pregnant (and had blond hair again.) During that visit, she made the point to turn her mom's television back on (it came on to a nature show about seabirds, incidentally.) I seem to remember that she referenced the pregnancy, apologized for not having mentioned it, and said she'd be back soon. I think this was supposed to be right before the flight, right?

Was there anything to suggest that Claire was already pregnant at the time of the accident? Was there any way to determine how much time had elapsed between the accident (Christian's visit to Australia and his meeting with black-haired Claire), and Claire's final (blond and pregnant) visit to her mother?

I'm asking because I've been watching DVDs from season one and I just saw the episode with Claire's boyfriend Thomas, the unplanned pregnancy, and the psychic. I guess it's unkind to watch episodes from the past, and compare with newer data, but she definitely is freaked about about the prospect of telling her mother, being disowned or having her mother cut her off, (not speak to her?) Thomas alludes to that pretty much being the case already. When she goes to the psychic, she has a friend along and says she hasn't told her mum about the pregnancy and moving in with Thomas, yet. When the psychic is getting all weird, she asks "What, should I not tell her?"

I was just wondering about the timing of the pregnancy and her relationship with her mom, the accident, etc.

If she was fighting with her mom about the usual, mundane teen things that she later apologizes for "I hate you! I wish you weren't my mother!" (Aunt Lindsay's attitude toward Claire certainly speaks of resentment and implies that Claire had had a bumpy relationship with her mum), that makes sense. The accident pre-dated any inkling of pregnancy, or related fight. But why feel panicky-scared about telling her mother about the pregnancy if her mum was already in a coma? Claire did not have the black hair when she was with Thomas, so their situation happened after the accident/coma.

I guess it's no big deal, and the references to her mother (when with Thomas) weren't explicit enough to be entirely incompatible with her mother being comatose, but it still was a little weird.

Claire seemed almost visibly younger when she had the dyed black hair, and I thought it was a pretty convincing portrayal of a teen (even still in high school or just out) with a lot of immaturity and basic teen conflicts with her mom. It was really well done, considering that Claire's demeanor on her last visit to the hospital was so different. Older, more relaxed, casual. Obviously familiar with the hospital, used to visits, having gotten into a "groove" with her mum, able to chat. Less self-absorbed, more compassionate, able to see beyond herself and to love her mum, feel remorse. She seemed palpably older than in the earlier scenes, visually and in her demeanor, and I thought that was well done.


It was a nice touch that Christian mentioned visiting her as a small child, that he sang to her. (Claire's eyes filled and she turned away at that, though Christian wasn't looking at her at the moment. And I saw in the earlier episode, when Claire asked the potential adoptive mother if she knew a particular song. Claire mentioned that her father used to sing it to her...)

Also, just a "TV-land" kind of discrepancy: when Claire, Sun and Jin were hiding and waiting to spring the trap and catch the gull, when Desmond fired the gun and scared off the birds, Aaron was nowhere in sight. Claire asked him accusingly if Charlie was with him (No, he was back at the beach, at the camp), so it's not like she'd left Aaron with Charlie. Ah, well. One of those "things," like the too-old baby and Sun's feeding him solids (maybe that bowl was something Sun was eating herself, just happened to be holding Aaron?)

Edited to add: maybe Rose was tending him!

[AmyC]

Originally Posted by jillywilson

Could somebody just wake me when the series is over? Then I'll just read the Cliff Notes. I'm not sure my brain can take any more. :

I guess it's great that they had all the "Forty days ago," "sixteen days ago" cues. Makes it possible to line it up and such. Fill in the blanks, whatever. But that's definitely the kind of thing that makes my brain glaze over!

I'm still looking forward to the next episode. I'm dying to see what's up in New Otherton.

[AmyC]

I like the things people have said to contextualize Paolo's moves, and to normalize Ben and Juliet's cameo (pointing out that they did notice the hatch door left open and uncovered, at the very least.)

But I still felt like his traipsing along with Nikki and just happening to notice the other plane, the hatch.....Also, having them in on so many interactions from the crash footage and such.....Like, here's the story from the other perspective.....felt very "Forrest Gump" to me, and a bit ridiculous. It was hard to suspend my disbelief.

It's still hard for me to think that the Others had the Flame and all that Dharma documentation (in the basement), and yet didn't know the location/function of Pearl station and the Swan until after the Oceanic flight crashed.

[SarahJen]

Ok I just rewatched the episode and here's one thing that really bothers me about it. When they found the plane and the hatch before Paulo found the diamonds why didn't they tell anyoen? Nikki was quick to say, when Locke asked if anyone wanted to come with to the hatch, that Paulo was always complaining about being included - if this was the case why not tell them about it sooner? Especially as Nikki pointed out the possibility of there being a radio in the plane. I mean I get that they wanted to find the diamonds but does that outweigh being rescued, really? Or shelter at the very least? Even if they had already found the first hatch, not everyone was using it.

[Starr]

So we are in season 3 and technically on the island only 80 some days have passed right? The way this is going in the 10th season Sun will give birth just as the show gets cancelled...

[zebrabelly]

Originally Posted by AmyC

But I still felt like his traipsing along with Nikki and just happening to notice the other plane, the hatch.....

I agree, but I also think it was to make us really dislike those two. Since we hated them anyway, seems the writers figured they might as well go out with a boom.

At the beginning of the episode when Paolo was "just" a chef, I said, "oh, maybe he's not so bad after all!" cause I can respect a chef. But before I finished my sentence, they proved he was an Evil Chef. LOL

[zebrabelly]

Originally Posted by Starr

So we are in season 3 and technically on the island only 80 some days have passed right? The way this is going in the 10th season Sun will give birth just as the show gets cancelled...

I don't think they ever expect her to have her baby on the show. The writers once commented jokingly how it would be season 13 before she had her baby. And since they don't want to go past season 5, I think they aren't planning it.

[CableGirl]

ok, I picked up this theory from a thread on a different board:

the reason nikki/paulo are now on the island, is because desmonds course correcting changed something. something he changed caused nikki/paulo to end up in rose/bernards seats. (rose and bernard have not been seen all season since nikki/paulo arrived)

Interesting theory, I think.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by zebrabelly

I don't think they ever expect her to have her baby on the show. The writers once commented jokingly how it would be season 13 before she had her baby. And since they don't want to go past season 5, I think they aren't planning it.

i also heard they don't plan on going past 5 seasons or 100 episodes.