Not sure what to do or say...

[~MoonGypsy~]

My DS is intact and both DF and I feel very strongly against circumcision. It was actually DF that researched and taught ME about the cons of circumcision. Yay!

So apparently DF went to lunch with a CoWorker last night who ripped DF a new one on leaving DS intact. He stated that not only is circumcision something that has been done for ages but it is also a cleanliness issue. My DS will never be "clean" because he is intact. This is all coming from third party (from CoWorker to DF to me) so I don't have his exact words, and DF and The CoWorker, as well as myself, are all young 20somethings.

I am so so angry! What right does this KID with no kids have talking about my DS's penis and saying that he is unclean?! I am so ready to send him a nasty email, but don't want to come off as a raging shebear whose cub has been threatened. We all work in the same place, just different shifts and I'm afraid to see him "at the water cooler" for fear that I'll go off on him.

I'm hoping that some of you more eloquent mamas could help me out on some links or words of wisdom to share. Actually, is it even a good idea to respond at all? I'm already known for being "militant" about my crunchy child raising beliefs so I'm not worried about that.


Ill get more specifics about the conversation from DF this afternoon.

[phatchristy]

Originally Posted by ~MoonGypsy~

So apparently DF went to lunch with a CoWorker last night who ripped DF a new one on leaving DS intact. He stated that not only is circumcision something that has been done for ages but it is also a cleanliness issue. My DS will never be "clean" because he is intact. This is all coming from third party (from CoWorker to DF to me) so I don't have his exact words, and DF and The CoWorker, as well as myself, are all young 20somethings.
.

Hmm, sounds like the logic that is used in countries which circumcise girls as well. I'd tell him that he must think that intact women are extrememly dirty then as we have probably 5 times the moist areas as intact men have : .

[pdx.mothernurture]

Suggesting circumcision is necessary for good hygiene is like suggesting removing an eyelid to keep an eye cleaner; it goes against basic, common sense. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says: "Your son's intact or uncircumcised penis requires no special care and is easy to keep clean."

People who spout the hygiene BS are ignorant, plain and simple.

1.) The foreskin is protective and keeps the glans (a mucousal area) clean, just like your eyelid protects your eye. During infancy and early childhood the foreskin is not retractable, and the tip is narrow/tight to allow urination while preventing feces and other foreign material from getting inside.

2.) The only care required for an intact baby/young child is to wipe the outside like you would a finger. Contrastly, circumcised boys need initial wound care and, if a parent hopes to prevent adhesions retracting of the remaining skin, wiping of the nooks and cranies, and in many cases continued application of a barrier ointment like vasoline; even so, 71% of circumcised boys end up with penile adhesions anyway.

3.) The smegma fear is bogus. Smegma is greek for soap, and not only do women produce the substance too, but they often produce it in more significant quantities. Regular rinsing of the genitals is *all* that's required to prevent build-up.

4.) Once a boy/young man is retractible, all he needs to do is "retract, rinse, replace" during bathing. That's it. Easier than brushing your teeth or tying your shoes.

Women not only have inner and outer labia, a clitoral hood, etc...but just think of all the 'stuff' that comes out of the vagina...smegma, blood, arousal fluid, egg white cervical mucous, and after copulation semen. Somehow, we don't worry too much about keeping our bits clean.

The genitals are, for the most part self-cleaning, low maintanence organs. It simply doesn't make evolutionary sense for nature to develop reproductive organs that are complicated & time-consuming to clean and difficult to keep in healthy, working order. Procreation demands simplicity.

Jen

[~MoonGypsy~]

Perfect. I love those responses!

Keep them coming ladies! Thank you so much!!

[kxsiven]

You can tell him how sorry you feel for him.

He is a victim of 100 years old myth that robbed most sensitive part of his genitals(I assume he is circumcised).

This myth only lives in USA.

You can also mention that most of the world's men are intact.

Curious; Does he also believe that circumcised women are cleaner? After all, women 'produce' so much all kinds of stuff...much more than men.

poor brainwashed guy.

[New Mexico Beach]

I would not email him. I may bring it up at the water cooler, but if your DF was having the convo with him, HE should have defended your son.

With someone like that, I'd point out that he is simply uneducated on the matter and probably not argue or debate with him. Maybe something like "You are clearly not educated on the subject. Come back and have this conversation with me when you can back your opinions up with facts."

[MommyTo3]

Sorry, but this is driving me crazy. What does "DF" stand for? Dear Friend?
Thanks!

[~MoonGypsy~]

Dear Fiance.


My DF is not the type of person that gets upset about these things. He stated to me that he'll never go to lunch with him again, but I'm fairly certain that no words were exchanged.

[LavenderMae]

This myth I just can't stand. First off it's not hard to keep ones genitals clean or any other part of ones body, imo. Secondly, I don't think males are just inherently lazy or stupid so they can't preform basic hygeine. Which I guess that guy thinks , good thing his parents saved him from that pesky thing called bathing. OH wait a miniute he still has to bathe to keep clean doesn't he, oops I guess his parents didn't save him afterall.

MoonGypsy, your ds is so adorable!!

[jessjgh1]

Katie,
Tell your df that the next time he sees the guy to just go up to him quietly say 'dirty penis' (or unclean or whatever) and then shake his head and laugh hysterically-- shake head, laugh, "what a joke!" Keep laughing. "too funny". "I hope you weren't serious". Keep laughing as he walks away.

Hopefully that would shut him up or piss him off, but if the guy presses him maybe your df can point out that every (I'm generalizing a little) Indian Irish British Australian, Asian, Latino, etc. guy that he knows is certainly not 'dirty'.

Because really, that is just a ridiculous notion and it is just silly.

Jessica

[trmpetplaya]

Your DF handled it the way my DH would probably have... it drives me nuts. I'm totally a type A personality and he's so laid back he'd be a Z personality if there was one.

Anyhow when I'm pregnant and when people are THAT ignorant about a topic (and aren't about to have a son if the topic is circumcision...) I do just what NMB said and inform them that they are woefully misinformed and that once they have actually read something on the topic I will talk to them about it. I have no tolerance for such arrogant ignorance during pregnancy.

I definitely agree with pps that you should bring up female genitals and how the cleanliness argument definitely makes a much more compelling argument for circumcising females.

love and peace.

[Cheshire]

Personally, I wouldn't send an email or bring it up with him unless he brought it up to me. I would ask DF to just mention to the guy to do his own research and try and find one medical association that supports it.

But, then again, I also like the

Tell your df that the next time he sees the guy to just go up to him quietly say 'dirty penis' (or unclean or whatever) and then shake his head and laugh hysterically-- shake head, laugh, "what a joke!" Keep laughing. "too funny". "I hope you weren't serious". Keep laughing as he walks away.

If the guy is religious just tell him that we made in God's image and God can't be wrong. If He didn't want men to have foreskins He would have left them off to begin with.

[buckeyedoc]

I'm guessing the coworker is circumcised, and the thought of someone not being circumcised is threatening in that he does not want to consider that his penis is not in the optimal state or that his parents made a "bad" decision.

[~MoonGypsy~]

Originally Posted by buckeyedoc

I'm guessing the coworker is circumcised, and the thought of someone not being circumcised is threatening in that he does not want to consider that his penis is not in the optimal state or that his parents made a "bad" decision.

Bolding mine.

This has 100% been the case for all of the men that thought intact was gross, wrong, etc. that I have dealt with.

To the rest - Thank you so much for your input! I'll let you know what DF says when I get home today.

[Bm31]

Originally Posted by buckeyedoc

I'm guessing the coworker is circumcised, and the thought of someone not being circumcised is threatening in that he does not want to consider that his penis is not in the optimal state or that his parents made a "bad" decision.

Exactly my thoughts. Far too many cut guys have bought the line of crap they've been fed. The best thing they can stand on is that they might spend two seconds less washing their penis in the shower. Oh, and if Mr. Rudemouth thinks it's so great being cut ....ask him to get back to you when he's 35 or 40 and the desensitisation has worked more magic on him.