Need advice QUICK for a friend

[vanessab23]

I am posting for a friend....

When she called a LLL leader, she got no advice at all (the issue seemed to be "over her head") and says she is nearly ready to quit. This is her 2nd child. Any advice you can give me to pass on would be greatly appreciated
_____________________
DS (7 mos) is still battling reflux. We finally got the proper dosage of
all
the meds 3 weeks ago. Before he only nursed for 2-3 minutes or bottle
2-3
oz. Now he will nurse for 1-3 minutes ONLY on the right boob - won't
even
sniff the left side. So, after fighting with him to eat for 10 minutes
I
give up and pump. When I pump the right side, I get about 4 oz EVERY
single
time after nursing, but the left side only produces 1-3 oz. Then out of
desperation (30 minutes after pumping), I offer the bottle and he sucks
it
down in record time.

Problems:

1.How do I nurse when the lil dude just bucks, arches & screams?
2.How do I get him to take the other boob? I always start on the left
side - the non-favored side
3.How can I tell if he has actually had enough? Smile breaks don't
count.
4.Other than, laying on my side, football and cradle, what are the
other positions?
5.How can I make the left boob produce more mooge?
6.Should I just give up?
7.How often should he be nursing and for how long?

[sophmama]

Ok - for quick help:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/decrease-formula.html

There are several links at the bottom of that page that may apply as well. Also there may be something here that will give her the specific info she needs as this is all about breastfeeding/pumping/bottlefeeding:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/index.html

It looks like he's just preferring the bottle because it's flow is easier to extract the milk. If she isn't already, she should be using low-flow bottles so he's used to having to work for the milk. How often is she offering the breast? Does he take it better when he's sleepy?

[alegna]

Originally Posted by vanessab23

Problems:

1.How do I nurse when the lil dude just bucks, arches & screams?
2.How do I get him to take the other boob? I always start on the left
side - the non-favored side
3.How can I tell if he has actually had enough? Smile breaks don't
count.
4.Other than, laying on my side, football and cradle, what are the
other positions?
5.How can I make the left boob produce more mooge?
6.Should I just give up?
7.How often should he be nursing and for how long?

First thing I'd do is take the bottles out of the equation. They will make things harder.

1. Try when he's asleep and before he's hungry. Part of the arching and screaming is probably because he's used to the fast flow of the bottle now and doesn't want to wait. Make the bottles not an option.

2. Try different positions. football hold. Lying down. Sitting up. In the tub. Babe lying on back mom hanging over- be creative.

3. Keep offering. Go by diaper counts to see if he's getting enough (they're on kellymom)

4. Anything you can think of. Really. think of every possible combination. Nothing's too weird- it just might work.

5. Nurse more and pump more on that side.

6. NO!

7. As often as he will for as long as he will.

good luck!

-Angela

[TurboClaudia]

just wanted to point out that this baby is dealing with REFLUX, so much of his arching and bucking is probably because he was in pain during nursing earlier on and he still associates the laying down of nursing positions with the pain.

is baby gaining weight well? if so, tell her to reduce the amount of milk she is offering in the bottles and try to nurse after he is not so hungry. definitely use slow-flow nipples on the bottles.

if babe is not gaining weight well, he needs calories and if a bottle is what gets it into him right now, than that may be the best option.

she is probably going to have to coax him back to the nipple. if she can find help for her older child, tell her to take a nursing holiday in bed with this new babe for one or two days and just lounge around topless with nakey-baby (well, maybe except for the dipe) and let him have access to the boob whenever he seems remotely interested.

i would absolutely recommend she find a chiropractor trained in craniosacral therapy. www.icpa4kids.com is a great source for names of chiropractors specializing in working with children, many of whom also have training in craniosacral work.

some babies with reflux can be coaxed back to breastfeeding; some just don't go back because their aversion is so strong. i admire her perseverance in trying to return him to breastfeeding and continuing to pump milk for him.

~claudia

[BeagleMommy]

Find another LLL leader and get a finger feeder. It will help him return to the breast if the bottle is not used. The finger feeder requires sucking on the part of the baby and you can still see how much he is getting.

[vanessab23]

Thank you everyone!

I knew y'all would come up with some stuff I hadn't thought about. Thank you!

I sent her the link to this site and thread....so she can read for herself

[XanaduMama]

Highly recommend mom giving up dairy, too, if she hasn't already. It was what made the biggest difference to ds's reflux, though the meds did help. (It's really crucial to get the right dosage--they're very weight-sensitive, so you have to keep adjusting as they grow.)

Another position to try: upright in the sling/MT/Ergo, walking around!! Babe might associate prone nursing positions with reflux pain, so maybe upright is the way to go. My ds loves nursing while being carried around! Try nakey-baby and topless mama with a MT or wrap or Ergo or something...just a thought.

[corhorvath]

Another idea for nursing in an upright position:

Sit on a couch in the corner and put baby on your lap facing you and put your arm around the baby. The baby can relax on your arm and the side of the couch, facing you, and nurse upright. Since the baby is 7 mos, this may work.

I use it with my dd when she's hungry but wants to look around at everyone.

[Valian]

We went through all this too.

1) I had to use completely new nursing positions until Ds would trust that it wouldn't hurt to nurse. We completely abandonded the football hold and went to cradle and later sidelying.

We nursed sitting up and with lots of pillows propped under Ds to keep him at an angle no matter what position we used.

2) We stealth nursed once Ds fell asleep. Often times he was too freaked out so I would rock/sing him to sleep and then offer the boob and he'd take it just fine.

3) Often I had to work really hard to soothe Ds whle coaxing him onto the nipple. For us this meant sitting on the toilet with the shower running and standing up to dance/sing/sway in between Ds nursing for 15-30 sec then popping off to scream. Luckily my milk would let down in this process and eventually he would get to nursing.

4) Nurse again after botles for the stimulation and to help relax Dc.

My Ds often only nursed for 3-5 min, even once the meds were working. He gained weight fine so I didn't sweat it.

How about an SNS for the left side so he gets some milk right away, then close it off after letdown. This way the left breast gets emptied and babe is coaxed back on.


Sorry, I somehow missed these the first time.
1. How do I nurse when the lil dude just bucks, arches & screams?

I would not put Dc into any nursing position that makes him immediatly react that way. Completely change up how things are done. Try to nurse BEFORE Dc gets hunrgy because crying makes the reflux worse and makes the whole thing harder. Maybe nurse him right after falling asleep or before you expect him to wake up.

2. How do I get him to take the other boob? I always start on the left
side - the non-favored side.

I would start on the favored side and then only fight him to take the left side when he's not so hungry any more. Or else try to favor this side at night or other times when he isn't putting up a fight.

3. How can I tell if he has actually had enough? Smile breaks don't
count.

I only nurse off one side per session (i.e. nurse right side, two hours later nurse left side). I stopped when he seemed more ready to play, when he popped off the breast and wouldn't go back on, if he fell asleep. I took all of these as signs he was done. If he's still hungry he let's me know by continually fussing or trying to latch onto my shirt. With all the reflux screaming it was hard to tell sometimes.

4. Other than, laying on my side, football and cradle, what are the other positions?
Babe straddling your leg facing your breast, babe lying across your body on his tummy and nursing with your breast beneath him, nursing in a sling/carrier that holds the baby upright or at an angle.

5. How can I make the left boob produce more mooge

Lots of women get uneven output on a pump. You're probably producing less just because the 'demand' for milk is less on that side and having more nursing time on that side, even just comfort sucking would help.

6. Should I just give up?
Nope. Reflux babies often have a difficult time on formula, and trying to relactate is an ever bigger chore than working through the nursing in the first place. Unless, Dc has such severe nursing aversions that he just plain refuses. It doesn't sound like that's your situation though.

7. How often should he be nursing and for how long?
My reflux baby nursed for 3-7 minutes mostly but sometimes 10-15 min. As he's gotten older and the pain has been under control for longer and the pain is a more distant memory he nurses more and longer. It took several pain free weeks before he was really comfortable nursing and seemed to relax.