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What ISN"T considered CLW? - Page 2

post #21 of 59
I have never heard of not offering other milk. I treated other milk like solids offering after nursing up to a certain age, don't remember which age but I am sure it was after age one and closer to two. Once a child can talk and asks for foods then by all means I give them. Nursing is not really about the amount of milk the child recieves from me after age two/three it is more about comfort and emotional needs.
post #22 of 59
I think it's very age dependent. Like, not offering other milk would be a CLW strategy with an infant, and maybe with a 1 year old. But IME by age 2 it doesn't compromise nursing at all, and certainly not at age 3 or 4.
post #23 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliabedelia View Post
I think (not) doing these things are actually "weaning-prevention" techniques not child-led weaning. That is to say, they are appropriate up until a certain age (to ensure a child doesn't wean too early)..say age 2/2.5...however after that I do not think it is CLW to either prevent or encourage weaning. I can't imagine witholding "other milk" from a 4-year old so they would nurse more, or continuing to offer breastfeeding to a 5 year old at the same frequently one would do with a 1-year old. I think these things are all "age appropriate" It is certainly important to prevent weaning up until a certain age (2 or so), but I don't feel it is appropriate to try to prevent weaning in a 4 or 5 year old.
Great point. These things sound like things someone with a baby or young toddler would be concerned with, not mamas of 3, 4 and 5 year-olds. 4 year-olds don't wean because they get some milk on their cereal in the morning, kwim?
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I think it's very age dependent. Like, not offering other milk would be a CLW strategy with an infant, and maybe with a 1 year old. But IME by age 2 it doesn't compromise nursing at all, and certainly not at age 3 or 4.
Yeah this has been my experience too. There's nothing magical about milk per se, as opposed to any other nutritious solids for an older toddler/preschooler. If you really want to ensure your child never weans, don't offer solid food at all. But of course that's child abuse (please no posts about 14 month olds not eating/needing solids yet... I'm talking about children of a natural weaning age here!) so that's out.

Just wanted to add, I don't think children NEED milk at all, but if your family eats dairy most children do too. Also, it's an easy source of calcium and for those with children who turn up their noses at kale and seaweed and sardine bones, you're kind of hard-pressed to find calcium rich natural foods without doing some sort of dairy or dairy alternative.
post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post

For me, I don't think children under 2 can CLW. I think fair enough if mama wants to take an active role in weaning a toddler - but it's not CLW.
It has happened to me 3 times. Ds1 17 months, dd1 and ds2 between 20-22 months Mylee is still nursing of course.

I would offer. I would rock them bare chested. THEY WOULD NOT NURSE. Angelo would straight out say, "No....no nee nee. No wanna."

I know it doesn't matter what others say about your parenting, but I KNOW there is nothing more I could have done to get them to nurse. THey were done! And they decided that on there own. That to me makes it child led weaning.

It kills me that we don't make it longer My mother nursed myself and my siblings til we were almost 3.
post #26 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Great point. These things sound like things someone with a baby or young toddler would be concerned with, not mamas of 3, 4 and 5 year-olds. 4 year-olds don't wean because they get some milk on their cereal in the morning, kwim?
:

I would agree.

-Angela
post #27 of 59
Oops, sorry AngelBee. That'll learn me - make a judgmental generalization, and someone will a) have an opposite experience, and b) be hurt by said generalization.

I tend to base my generalizations on my own experience, which is limited as I have only one child, and a boobie addict at that.

post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
It has happened to me 3 times. Ds1 17 months, dd1 and ds2 between 20-22 months Mylee is still nursing of course.

I would offer. I would rock them bare chested. THEY WOULD NOT NURSE. Angelo would straight out say, "No....no nee nee. No wanna."

I know it doesn't matter what others say about your parenting, but I KNOW there is nothing more I could have done to get them to nurse. THey were done! And they decided that on there own. That to me makes it child led weaning.

It kills me that we don't make it longer My mother nursed myself and my siblings til we were almost 3.
You know, the fact that they ALL did this means it wasn't a fluke, just how they're designed! You did great.

The one thing I hate on this board is seeing mamas use sad/upset/crying smilies when talking about babies nursing til 22 months! You rock mama .... give yourself a pat on the back not a guilt trip!
post #29 of 59
just wanted to add, in response to the OP's questions about what is acceptable to post here (vs. bf'ing beyond infancy) - to me, it has to do with what you're asking about. If you're committed to CLW (in the form you feel is right for your family) but are seeking advice about setting limits or night-weaning or something of that nature, then those questions belong in the BF'ing Beyond Infancy forum. If you are seeking support for continuing to nurse, tandem nursing (with the older nursling is an older toddler or pre-schooler, especially), or maybe just have questions for others who are CLW'ing, then I think those would be better directed in the CLW forum.

but that's also why there are moderators - if you put it in the "wrong" forum, they'll move it for you. though you might get a few snarky responses before they do :
post #30 of 59
THat is the part that is kind of sad. I think it is important for other clw mamas to know that it is ok to set limits(including nuightweaning), if that is what they need. If it is only allowed on the other forum, they might not see that it's ok, that their child will be ok(done in a loving, respectful manner, of course), and that it is very important to find a way to keep clw working for their family, whether it fits under the strigent "rules" of some clw...and unfortunately for some of us that does mean setting limits and nightweaning.

I also wonder why someone should expect snarky comments. What purpose does that serve? If someone is coming here looking for support with limits so they can continue to clw shouldn't they be met with compassion and understanding, and gently directed to the appropriate forum(if that is the case)? Do we want people to be afraid to post? CLW does indeed have a spectrum, depending on the child, his/her age, family dynamics/needs. It seems out of place on a board lik mdc to have this set of rules, and only if you are under those rules are you clw. It just doesn't seem right to me(and not just because I do place limits). Just like anything in life it can't really be black and wwhite, there is always that gray area, there is always the exception...
I just don't want mamas to be scared off, and I need a place to come for support too...I will be nursing three come this August, just when I thought I had doen it all.
post #31 of 59
Good points Mamamoo.
post #32 of 59
Thank you mamas for the pats on my back : That truly means alot to me!
post #33 of 59
I just wanted to add that I don't want any mother to be scared away because her process of child-led weaning is different than the process of another.

Plain and simple, this forum is here to give and receive support for all of us.

I don't want to feel guilty, or that I don't belong here (or outright told), for having night-weaned or placed limits any more than a mama does who didn't. I used to feel defensive and shunned (and I even went into a major guilt-trip full of excuses and explanations) when other mamas would mention that they firmly believe in no limits whatsoever and that night-weaning is absolutely not in line with CLW. Should those threads have been removed because I was offended and that their definition of clw wasn't in line with mine? Of course not. I learned how to tolerate other opinions and take it for what it was. Someone else's definition, not mine. I learned how subjective the process of child-led weaning really is. I think this issue makes all of us question ourselves, perhaps, and that's not the point of the forum. The most important thing is that we are all here for the same reason, to trust our children to decide when their breastfeeding needs have been fully and ultimately met. THAT is what brings us together.

I don't think threads asking for support for placing (and having placed) some gentle limits (and in this forum gentle is to be expected!) in order to continue breastfeeding is any more offensive than a thread from a mama who wants support for not placing any limits, kwim? If we choose to visit a thread that contains content that doesn't fit our ideals, then we risk having our feathers ruffled and feelings hurt. We've all btdt and we learn to tolerate and respect one another's differences, or at least to stay out of those threads.

We don't all fit into one mold. I don't think anybody at Mothering fits into the same mold! To expect it, either way (limits, no limits, certain limits, etc.), is not fair or kind to any of us and will undoubtedly leave mamas, who are in desperate need of support, out in the cold and on their own.

This forum is here to give mamas support to continue breastfeeding until their child is ready to wean on her/his own. Advice on how to gently limit so the mama can keep her sanity may be totally different on BBI than it would be here. For example, can you imagine a mother going to BBI for advice on how to place some gentle limits on her 4 year-old? She might fall into the same place I was a few years ago on Extended Nursing when I received support but also criticism at the same time, but even worse because she wouldn't be among the friends she is used to receiving support from. Or, for another example, could you imagine myself asking for support (perhaps in my decision to go on a trip, thus limiting my dd's nursing needs) in the BBI forum when I was nursing my 7 year old? Where would I belong? There, because I was placing some serious limits on my dd's nursing, or here in CLWing because I still fully intended to continue when I returned? kwim?

CLW should be a safe-haven regardless of how a mama defines her child's journey (limits, no limits, etc.). We don't all have to accept one another's way as our own in order to receive support here. And we shouldn't make a mama worried that she is going to offend because she mentioned gentle night-weaning any more than making another mama worried about offending others because she doesn't believe in night-weaning. If this is the place she receives support, and she has developed friendships here, why should she have to go elsewhere, where she doesn't know anyone, just because she doesn't fully conform to another mama's way of thinking, kwim?

post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamamoo View Post
THat is the part that is kind of sad. I think it is important for other clw mamas to know that it is ok to set limits(including nuightweaning), if that is what they need. If it is only allowed on the other forum, they might not see that it's ok, that their child will be ok(done in a loving, respectful manner, of course), and that it is very important to find a way to keep clw working for their family, whether it fits under the strigent "rules" of some clw...and unfortunately for some of us that does mean setting limits and nightweaning.

I also wonder why someone should expect snarky comments. What purpose does that serve? If someone is coming here looking for support with limits so they can continue to clw shouldn't they be met with compassion and understanding, and gently directed to the appropriate forum(if that is the case)? Do we want people to be afraid to post? CLW does indeed have a spectrum, depending on the child, his/her age, family dynamics/needs. It seems out of place on a board lik mdc to have this set of rules, and only if you are under those rules are you clw. It just doesn't seem right to me(and not just because I do place limits). Just like anything in life it can't really be black and wwhite, there is always that gray area, there is always the exception...
I just don't want mamas to be scared off, and I need a place to come for support too...I will be nursing three come this August, just when I thought I had doen it all.

And ITA about the don't offer/don't refuse. If I had offered I would have been nursing... oh all day long up until this past summer (2.5-3). Now the only time I offer is when she is woken from her nap (so she doesn't stay up until midnight.. fights it like crazy but often doesn't want to leave the comfort of a warm bed ). She will often throw a monumental tantrum and when she takes a breath I'll remind her when she's ready she can nurse. Even now without offering we're doing 6-8x/day most days.. less if we're really busy. That's not including nights. : And I've had to refuse a few times, esp during pms episodes, where it started to hurt like crazy and I really got angry... hormones I swear! As I said on another thread- the limits and 'rules' I use make it so she truly can lead the way and I keep my sanity (and am starting to get a bit more sleep after 4.5 yrs of interupted sleep). I think perhaps clw is like anything else... there is a spectrum of what it encompasses, and everyone on this board falls somewhere on it. And yes, I don't post much on the beyond infancy board, because this is where my heart lies, and with the older nurslings (not found nearly as much on that board) I feel far more at home. Perhaps if there was a nursing ages 1-2/2-4 board I might feel more at home on the 2-4 board but we can't overwhelm mothering. LOL!
post #35 of 59
I honestly think this thread should be made a STICKY in this forum. So many mamas think breastfeeding (and CLW especially) comes with a list of must-do's and hard-and-fast rules, and it's both refreshing and encouraging to see BTDT mamas who fully embrace CLW but without the angst and list-checking. I think this thread would encourage more mamas to consider CLW.

Could we start a petition for a sticky?
post #36 of 59
i was thinking the same thing, periwinkle.
this would make a lovely sticky.
post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post

For me, I don't think children under 2 can CLW. I think fair enough if mama wants to take an active role in weaning a toddler - but it's not CLW.

I know I personally tried my very hardest to get my DS to keep nursing after he decided to wean at 23 months, and I'm not saying I tried for a few days or a few weeks, I continued trying for 7 months, every single day...I tried nursing him at night thinking maybe I could trick him into nursing (it worked at 11 months the first time he decided to wean...for like 2 1/2 months the only nursing he did was in his sleep when I was able to trick him)...I offered all the time, he would laugh at me...I kept trying. I was still making plenty of milk since my dd (3 1/2 at the time he weaned) was still nursing.
post #38 of 59
Subbing to this thread.

I am nursing a 3-1/2 year old. I do limit sometimes, but no specific rules. It's more along the lines of if I am feeling touched out or irritable, I'll ask DD to wait until I can calm down.

ITA that CLW is a two-way relationship. I don't want to be resentful of DD's nursing so if I need a break, I try to take a few minutes to get my head together before nursing.

I'm sure there is lots I could add here but it will have to wait until I have more time.
post #39 of 59
i didn't mean to suggest that *i* felt that way... in fact, for me and DD, it was best that i gently encourage her to wean at age 3. we talked about it for about 6 months, planned a big party, and we never looked back. i had planned to allow her to CLW, but after 10 months of tandeming with her brother, i felt it was what needed to happen so that i could be the best mom i could be. and it was. i had also needed to night-wean her and limit her nursing during pregnancy because the lack of milk was causing her to become hysterical when she nursed (particularly at night) and so we cut it back to only the most important comfort sessions so that she could enjoy them and not be upset by them.

i have just personally experienced (and witnessed) a general lack of support for things like night-weaning and limit-setting in this forum (not from everyone, but definitely from some), where that has not been the case in BF'ing Beyond Infancy. Thus, in order that someone get the most support and the least amount of guilt when placing limits or what-have-you, it seemed like the best place to advise someone to post such inquiries.
post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by aileen View Post
i was thinking the same thing, periwinkle.
this would make a lovely sticky.
I agree
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