At the end of our rope... - Page 2

[lotsofkids]

Have you read The Happiest Baby On The Block? I would try swaddling her. Really, really tight. It sounds to me like she has an extremely sensitive Moro Reflex and she is startling too much to sleep. She might greatly benefit from swaddling. This book saved my life with one of my DDs. You do the 5 S's.

Swaddling
Sucking
Side (laying on side)
Side to side swaying
Shushing (this is where you shush very loudly in their ear to mimic the sound of the womb)

I could generally calm my high needs baby down in about 10 minutes using these techniques. But definitely try swaddling.

ETA: I just read your last post that said your DD hates swaddling. So did mine. She would fight sleep with every inch of her body that's why she didn't like it. I swaddled her anyway and she would finally succumb to sleep and sleep like a log.

[mum2be]

Originally Posted by lotsofkids

Have you read The Happiest Baby On The Block? I would try swaddling her. Really, really tight. It sounds to me like she has an extremely sensitive Moro Reflex and she is startling too much to sleep. She might greatly benefit from swaddling. This book saved my life with one of my DDs. You do the 5 S's.

Swaddling
Sucking
Side (laying on side)
Side to side swaying
Shushing (this is where you shush very loudly in their ear to mimic the sound of the womb)

I could generally calm my high needs baby down in about 10 minutes using these techniques. But definitely try swaddling.

ETA: I just read your last post that said your DD hates swaddling. So did mine. She would fight sleep with every inch of her body that's why she didn't like it. I swaddled her anyway and she would finally succumb to sleep and sleep like a log.

Yes. I will try it again I guess. She hates being confined. I don't know why she wakes up after falling asleep. She does not startle herself, there are no noises, etc. Her eyes just pop open. It's so odd...

[mommy2abigail]

Oh my, I could have written your post. I know exactly how you feel. I felt like the worst mother, because I was so sleep deprived that I would freak out at dd.: She was champion of the 20 minute naps. NEVER did she sleep longer. I tried everything. Car rides (she screamed) nursing, patting, rocking, shushing, white noise, no noise, hot, cold, tummy, back, side, on mommy, off mommy, alone, with me, sling, wrap, crib, bed. EVERYTHING. Nothing made her sleep better. I was hallucinating and was fearful of what I'd do. I did let her cry once, for 3 minnutes. It was horrible, and I looked at the clock the entire time. I begged dh not to go to work everyday. It was really awful. I swore off any more children (I have since then changed my mind ) I did do the eliminations diet. I ate nothing but rice, pears, turkey, and water for weeks on end. I went from a size 8 to a size 0. I am 5'10', so a size 0 is NOT pretty. I really can't tell you that anything we did helped. She was healthy, not vaccinated, nothing could explain her sleep disturbances. I can tell you that she now, at 22 months, sleeps for 30-60 minutes at a time and will go back to sleep easily if she wakes from her nap early. And she wakes 2-3x per night, which is a dream compared to before. I did have to partially nightwean her at 20 months, which was not my 'ideal' plan, but I was not healthy. My advice to you is get out of the house everyday, and try to have an hour to yourself (as in, not in the same house as dd) I didn't do that, and I am kicking myself for it. She would have been so much better off taking a break from her stressed out, sleep deprived, impatient mama. Even if your dh or mom or a trusted friend takes her on a walk and you take a nap or bath or read or whatever. Or YOu take a walk with out her. Or go to the mall and have dh take her around while you walk around with a cup or coffee or tea. Please pm me if you ever want to talk. Really I can totally relate.

[mommystinch]

I so wish I had words of wisdom for you. I just had to write and let you know you aren't alone. My dd was exactly like yours. Horrible sleeper from the first night with us... I would spend several hours getting her to take a nap, and she'd be awake before I even finished going to the bathroom or making lunch. I was always so angry at dh because I had to go nurse her back to sleep every ten to fifteen minutes until I went to bed. Then, like your dd, she still woke up frequently at night. I hope you find something that works. I know how hard it can be to be in your shoes. Sometimes we have to think about the fact that mom and dad aren't good parents unless they have been taken care of as well.

[Justmee]

Just another big

Have you tried a swing? Rivka woudl only sleep in the swing for a while from about 3 - 6 months. I had to leave it on. She didn't like to be held and she didn't like the confinement of slings / wraps, but she loved the swing.

Sorry I don't have any better advice. She's still pretty high needs but nothing like when she was under 1.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by mum2be

A friend gave us the book my Weissbluth, which I know most of you hate on here. I am anti-CIO, but can you understand the fact that nothing is working now and we need something to change or I'll end up having a mental breakdown. (Not even joking...) He has a chapter on extremely fussy/colicky babies and why they can't sleep after 4 months and what it does to them, etc. He says it can set them up for permanent sleep problems (I do believe this...) and difficult temperments as they get older (she already has a VERY DIFFICULT temperment from lack of sleep.)

For us this was not the case. Being sleep deprived and high needs never started poor sleeping habits. It has only gotten better. She hit the 4 month mark and all hell broke loose. Literally. I was feeling the EXACT same way you did. Plus, she had reflux that was undiagnosed. The best thing I did was get her on zantac. The second best thing I did was learn about infant stress and crying in arms.

The sooner I stopped trying to "cure" her crying, and just supported her through what ever stress relief she needed to do, the better things got.

Around about 7 months things started to get better, nap wise. Meaning, I didn't have to HOLD her for her naps (which were never longer then 30 minutes) anymore. I could actually lay down with her and she'd fall asleep. Then around 9 months I was able to roll away she'd actually STAY asleep. Bliss!!

Now that we have naps sorted out, I've been working on helping her sleep better at night. I started letting her sleep on her tummy. And like I said above, when I stopped trying to "fix" her sleep problems and just let her get it out of her system, she slept well. Great actually. She is sleeping 3-5 hour stretches now!

I have never abandoned her, I have never denied her the breast, and I never did it to "teach" her anything. Three things I will NEVER do. But I firmly believe that babies, just like adults, sometimes need to "let it out". I was always there for her, and if there was something that I thought would help, I tried, but when it didn't, I just held her assured her that it was Ok to let it all out.

I think we sometimes get wrapped up in trying to prevent crying so much that we inadvertently suppress emotions that are desperate to be expressed, and since they can't speak to us, it only seems natural that sometimes that expression comes out as screaming. I just think it's important to be there for them and to support them through it (something Weissbluth and Ferber encourage against).

[mommy2abigail]

: I really think it was MY stress and fear of ever letting her cry AT ALL that contributed to her stress, and thus her sleeping issues.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by mommy2abigail

I really think it was MY stress and fear of ever letting her cry AT ALL that contributed to her stress, and thus her sleeping issues.

Totally. When I just held her and looked in her eyes and said "tell mama all about, I'm listening", it's like a weight got lifted off my shoulders. I was no longer stressing about how to get her to stop, but instead I was LISTENING to her. It got progessively better from there.

[gretasmommy]

Originally Posted by mum2be

Yes. I will try it again I guess. She hates being confined. I don't know why she wakes up after falling asleep. She does not startle herself, there are no noises, etc. Her eyes just pop open. It's so odd...

Babies develop sleep onset associations very early - like during pregnancy. They all like to be held to sleep/nurse to sleep. They've been doing both of these things (well, sucking their thumbs instead of nursing!) for months by the time they join us for their first night of sleep on the "outside"!

Your baby is too old now (sleep habits are too ingrained) to just give them up and change how she falls asleep without protest. It sounds like you have exhausted most every option for what else might be wrong. She might be just so fussy and upset because she is awfully overtired and has a raging headache form it - that's how I feel when I am really overtired.

I am going to step aside from what many have advised you here to do. When my dd was close to your dd's age, I was way overtired from suddenly being up nursing far more than I was during the first few months of her life! It seemed crazy, but she was waking a lot more! I decided that neither of us was happy with this, and that I had helped create this problem and as her mom I had to help fix it. So, when she continued to cry to nurse (a million times a night, after months of not nursing at all at night!!!) I would go and hold her, comfort her, but not nurse her - I realzed that she was just wanting to nurse to fall back to sleep - and when her sleep cycle lightened up (as everyones' does) she was looking to nurse back to sleep again. So, I would comfort her until she was calm, put her down into her crib (where she strongly prefered to sleep) and would leave, The moment she cried out again, i was right there, holding and comforting again until she was calm, put her down . . repeat. The first night was awful - about 4 hours of this. Over and over again. The second night was much better, about 20 minutes, and the third night she just woke briefly once. Nothing ever since (illness excluded, but we never went back to the bad times!). And we were all much happier during the days - even G. And I felt as though I was listening to her - she was tired and unhappy. And I *never* let her cry without responding to her. I held her for every second of it - but no bouncing/walking /rocking, as this would be trading one problem for another

I know this is probably not the advice you were thinking you would get, but I just had to try to offer help - I really feel for you all, and remember those foggy sleepy days all too well! Wishing you better nights to come!

[megansar]

One thing I wanted to add (and I've bdtd, too - hugs to you mama!), is that when you can, have your mom or dh take her physically out of the house so that you can rest.
My dh would take dd in the stroller or sling OUTSIDE for a walk whenever the weather cooperated so that I could have an hour or so with no crying or baby noise in the house at all. Then I could finally sleep. DD did cry in the stroller for a while, but she'd eventually fall asleep, and in the sling it was even better because dh was holding her. Then, ask your mom or dh NOT to tell you if she cried the whole time, because that will make you feel guilty and the last thing you need is guilt. Just pretend that she slept the whole time they were gone, and cherish the silent alone nap you just had.

Tons of hugs to you - it sucks, I know. We also did a modified sleep thing at about 10 months (see Dr. Jay Gordon's article - can't find the link, sorry, but you can try it when baby is older than 1 year) because both dh and I almost drove into major accidents at different times because we were so hallucinatingly sleep deprived. After that, dd would sleep in a 6 hour chunk at the beginning of the night, which was heaven.

Anyways, more hugs.

[apple_dumpling]

mama, I have been in your shoes, and it is tough. And I won't lie... dd is now 2, and her sleep issues haven't gotten a whole lot better. I do get a little more sleep now then I used to when she was a babe, and now that she is more verbal it's a bit easier, but on the whole, she's still the same fussy, clingy to mama, non-sleeping kid that she was 2 years ago!

We never flirted with CIO.. but dd wouldn't go to my DH either. She did seem to take to females a little better, so my mom would actually fly 1300 miles down to our house on occasion to help (and I see you have either your mom or DH's mom helping too... she *is* being taken care of, so sometimes you have to hear her cry knowing that your mom is attending to her. I did.)

We went through pretty much 6 months of ZERO sleep... and that was with dd on medication for reflux (she was dx'ed at 2 weeks because of projectile vomiting and gassiness) We got her a tucker sling (it's a wedge like thing) and put in the bed with us and she slept a little better. For a while she actually slept in one of those swings that rocked sideways, and she slept pretty good in that. Still up every 2 hours or so, but that was 2 hours of sleep that I wasn't getting otherwise, and she would *finally* nap in that thing. I know people don't advocate putting them in the swing, but I was desperate, and she went willingly into it and drifted right off to sleep.

I would strongly encourage you to check out the "healing the gut" thread in health and healing... it sounds like your poor dd has some gut issues (mine certainly does and we are still working on it) It's tough, and some of it will involve you since you are still nursing. FWIW, I had to stop nursing at 13 months in order to take medication, and dd's symptoms really didn't improve all that much. I know she has some allergies, but we are still working on what exactly they are, much as you are.

Plan little goals and activities for youself... having something to look forward to, and having help around were the ONLY two things that got me through that period. I had to have something to look forward to, just so I knew in my own mind that time was progressing... and short term goals, such as a nice dinner with DH while my mom was watching her, or a certain festival that was in town where I could stroll her, or something... looking back, I still don't know how I got through it, but I did, and you will too. If you think reflux might be an issue with her, go back to the doc and pressure them into doing something. I can't tell you how many times they told me "well babies don't sleep" true, but they don't scream 24/7 either, ya know? You are mama and you know when something isn't right... so insist on testing if need be, and do what you need to do for your mental health to get through... I think you'll find you can manage without using CIO

[eldadeedlit]

this is a longshot...but is it possible that there is an airborne allergen in your house, like mold? my ds was almost exactly like what you are describing when we lived in this old musty house in albany... but whenever we left, he was much better. when we moved, he got a LOT better. we figured it was the mold. switching to cloth diapers helped too.

[eldadeedlit]

oh, also resist cio!! really you will REGRET it if you go that route. we had that book recommended to us by a professor and tried his method for one night and it was absolute hell!!! my ds cried hysterically for literally 5 hrs. we never went down that route again and i feel terrible for doing it. if she is high needs, she probably wouldn't be the type to "fuss" for a few minutes then sleep.

as far as my ds goes, he is 4 now and has been sleeping peacefully and easily now for three years. it gets better!

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by mum2be

So, really, put yourself in our position. Don't tell me you'd wait it out and hope things will get better. It's getting worse. We've seen a ND, chiro, CST, allergy specialist, gastroenterologist, PED, kinesiologist, etc. and nothing has worked. What would you do?

Start with this: www.pediatrix.com Call them up. Get them to send you the screen. You can do it yourself. Then you need a doctor to sign off on it.

Then whether or not it comes back with anything, you need to see a metabolic geneticist. Your child is barely tolerating anything in your diet. You posted before that you were losing weight.

I'm appalled that at the very least your ND and your GI haven't referred you to a metabolic geneticist.

I would also get a sleep study and an EEG.

A half way decent geneticist should know what to order. I can refer you to one in Boston and one in Arkansas if you can travel to those places. I believe you are in WA.

You are going to need to get blood and urine run. I know it hurts her, but it's going to hurt her more all of this being untreated.

Stool samples are NOT going to tell you what is going on with this level of extreme.

[megincl]

I'm so glad Mamaverdi came on here to reply. I was going to suggest that you post over in the special needs forum to get some wisdom over there. I think that what you are describing goes far beyond "regular" dietary and sleep issues (from which we suffer here -- I feel some of your pain, but never that bad -- super duper hugs to you!!!!!!!!!). MV is the guru on this. Do what she says (I've followed her advice on other threads). You might still want to post on the SN forum to get even more wisdom.

I wish you and your family all of the strength that it takes to get through this. And hey, if you come to Boston for testing or whatever, I'm happy to help out -- I'm a student and have flexible days. Just let me know. Really! (I can hold a screaming baby for a long time with a good amount of calm...)

be well,
megin

[ChristyMarie]

I couldn't read this and not respond. Just wanted to give you a (((hug))) - you've received lot of great advice, I really hope some of it helps.

[wendy1221]

Please come and start a new thread in the allergy forum. It's under health and healing. My guess is that she is reacting to rice or potatoes (since they are actually sort of common, especially w/ FPIES.) We might be able to help you find a different carb. I also have some other things to ask you, but I don't want to get into it on this board.

I will say, in case you don't come post, that you need to insist on seeing a pediatric GI doctor and have her tested for eosinophilic disorders.

[Tuesday]

You poor thing! I know too what you're going through - my first son was like this. To be honest, it was awful and people just didn't "get" how tiring it was to deal with an almost constantly crying and awake baby. I have another baby now - he's 6 months and he's totally calm and rarely cries so first of all, I learned that I didn't "create" a high needs baby. Your little one is just wired, IMO, to be the way she is.

What worked for me ... reducing any sort of stimuli and keeping nap and sleep times in a dark room with a lot of white noise. This sounds crazy but I bought this cd http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/fussbuster/from/blackdog and I used to put it on selection #2 every night, ALL NIGHT long at a loud volume. My son, even when he was in a horrible, red-faced, overstimulated screaming fit, would conk out eventually if this CD was playing. Sometimes, I would play the CD and his eyes would flutter and he'd calm down and I'd nurse him. Other nights it was holding, swinging, the CD and nursing. It was so intense and very hard on me but what other solution did I have. Even though I'm not a fan of CIO, I can see how it might work in a modified fashion with a calmer baby (like my second one) but not a little baby who bursts into the world, literally, almost "on fire".

For almost 2 years, literally, the bedtime routine was to put on this Fussbuster CD on "repeat" and play it all night long. As my son grew older, I think the sound of the white noise became soothing and he knew it was calming bedtime. The thing is, you might think he'd become "addicted" to sleeping with white noise on. Funny enough, at age 3.5 years old, he sleeps for about 10 - 12 hours straight each night, sleeps through anything and requires no white noise.

I hope this information helps!

[Siana]

Baby carriers and Swaddling

My DS *hated* being carried in the ring sling, but I absolutely could not go one any longer carrying in my arms night and day! I handed him off to DP one day, with the sling. He was upset, but at the time I though, "better with him than me." Then, all of a sudden, there was total peace. Turns out DP discovered a way of holding DS in the sling that he actually liked! It was the budah position.

I would suggest going on www.thebabywearer.com forums and asking for positioning ideas for your babe. It's a huge pool of support and information, and you can't beat the wealth of experience there. You might find some unique recommendations that your DD might go for. Carrying her would really save you a lot of trouble, and stop those back aches.

Re: Swaddling
With wrapping in certain positions, you can achieve both babywearing and swaddling in one go. I would recommend www.mamatoto.org for more details (or just go to the Babywearer and ask). Get in touch with local babywearing mamas so they can show you wrapping in action.

I'm not saying wrapping will be a magic solution to everything, but it might just help you all cope better, by at least giving you some free hands now and then. I really wish I knew how great wraps were when DS was little. It would have given us more options for position to choose from.

[mamaverdi]

Originally Posted by mum2be

We've seen a ND, chiro, CST, allergy specialist, gastroenterologist, PED, kinesiologist, etc. and nothing has worked.

Wendy, she says she's seen GI. Though possibly not pediatric GI.

I agree that EE is a definite possibility.

Honestly OP at this point you need to see regular old conventional/western med specialists. And fast.