11 yo crisis...NEED ADVICE, PLEASE!

[MamaLuna]

Hi, I haven't posted here in a while, but I could sure use some advice now! My dd is 11, in 5th grade. She has had the same 2 friends for the past year and a half. One of them she is particularly close to. Now, out of the blue, both friends have decided that they are not dd's friend anymore, they've completely dumped her, and been somewhat nasty to her to boot.

So I know that this is something everyone goes through at some point in their lives, and I know it is an opportunity for her to grow, etc...And, girls of that age can be so mean. But, she is especially miserable because she feels completely alone now, she spends her recesses reading to herself because she has no one to play with. Until now I have been so grateful that she had that friend because honestly, she doesn't have much in common with many of the other girls in school, and its a small community so there aren't many girls her age to choose from. She's not so much a pre-teen like the rest of them, she is very much her own unique person and still has many little girl qualities...all the more reason its hard for her to fit in with the "popular crowd".

So anyways, to make a long story short, she doesn't want to go to school anymore, she wants to move or be homeschooled. We have considered homeschooling before (have been pretty unhappy w/ her teacher)...but now I am just not sure we could pull it off. Mostly just because I can't be home everyday. We are realizing that I need to start working. So, leaving her home alone occasionally is ok, but 2-3 days/week?? Also, I just don't know if yanking her out of school because she's hit this roadblock is the right thing to teach her.

Anyways...I would be so grateful for any advice or wisdom.

My best to all of you,
E

[Emilie]

I would start by looking into what hs reasources are in your community. We live in a pretty small town but I just found out there is a homeschool group of 150 families!!!
I wonder if you could network within something like that and maybe even set up dd being a mothers helper to another hs mom's younger children?
I am just brainstorming.
It does sound like hs is in your heart and hers.
Also much of hs can be self directed especially with a 5th grader?
Good for you for looking into this. I have small children myself but did have a terrible middle school, jr high life.
I am so sad for her to be going thru this.
Emilie

[Risso]

Maybe it's not the best advice, but I think that's just part of growing up - as painful as it can be. Social interaction is REALLY important with children her own age (even if she doesn't particularly like them - it's a learning experience). So homeschooling + youth groups etc. would all have to fit into your agenda. I think it's a roadblock - I'd wait it out and see what happens. If she's still miserable by the end of Spring, you can always look into new options for the 6th grade. That's just me though....

[dylan]

We had the same type of experience with my dd a few years ago.

We did end up homeschooling for a year (also didn't like her teacher) and it was great, and hard...but so worth it. during that year I read a great book called "Odd Girl Out" (search Amazon, it's there) and another "Queen Bees and Wannabes". It taught me a lot about the structure of today's girl friendships. It is NOT something that we all go through...it's different now, and many an adult STILL has painful memories of school bullying - and that's what this is, "relational bullying" or "relational aggression."

With DD, during the hs year, we did humanties work in various forms, manners and respect workbooks where she was able to get a perspective on the kind of character she wanted, who she wanted to be, and how to handle rudeness.

She's in grade six now (hs also allowed her to skip a year) and doing great in her class - we love her teacher, he's up about the girl dynamics and keeps an eye out.

So, I encourage you to get the book(s)...it really helped me to see where I was being "mama bear" and where I was being reasonable. (Not that mama bear is inappropriate - but nice to be validated). It also has the do's and don'ts about handling it.

Hug your dd a lot, and don't minimize this. I would encourage you to homeschool if you can, and hopefully can network with other parents (we live in a 2500 community size and found a lot of families to buddy up with).

Also there are a lot of programs for schools, education for teachers and how to implement it into the classroom to create a bully free school environment. I encourage that too, whether you hs or not. I did that the year we hs'd...gave them time to get that going, and not have my dd be in it.

Good luck.

[PiePie]

whether you yank her out now or not, you need to connect her with other children. there are so many interest-based groups (dance class?? i guess form your siggy), not to mention the internet pen pal possibility (have you checked out new moon's pen pal service). there is also sleepaway summer camp, which was an invaluable part of my socialization. ita that retreating may reinforce her feelings of social failure esp if she feels she is leaving with her tail between her legs. the reading during recess part doesn't seem so bad if she has friendships outside of school. know that one girl i love dearly was completely ostricized from K through 3, and now (miracle of miracles) has 4 actual friends who have lasted 3.5 years now. so these things do change, you need to convey to her that you have faith that things will change for the better for her.

[VeganC]

My two best friends did the exact same thing to me between the ages of 9-11. Sometimes the two of them would decide they didn't want to be friends with me for a few weeks, and sometimes I and one other one would be best friends and exclude the other one. I know how painful it is, but I think it's pretty normal adolescent behavior. My suggestion is to wait it out awhile, and meanwhile get her involved in activities outside of school if she isn't already. Art classes, swimming lessons, karate, whatever interests her. If it doesn't get better within a few months, I'd say reconsider homeschooling, even if it's just for a short time. Good luck to you and your daughter.

[E.V. Lowi]

I agree with pp about the book, "Odd Girl Out" Reading this with my dd when she was in fifth grade was so helpful for BOTH of us. Eleven is such a cruel age for girls and this book helped to explain why and how to deal. There is also a movie out on DVD now, by the same name and although it was very helpful to watch, does not cover as much as the book. Best wishes to you and your dd.

[mz_libbie22]

Originally Posted by Risso

Maybe it's not the best advice, but I think that's just part of growing up - as painful as it can be. Social interaction is REALLY important with children her own age (even if she doesn't particularly like them - it's a learning experience). So homeschooling + youth groups etc. would all have to fit into your agenda.

I really disagree with this. What is she "learning" by being in that kind of an environment? Why is it REALLY important for kids to be forced to socialize with people just because they happen to be the same age? I just really don't understand because I was bullied in school and it sure as heck didn't teach me anything. Nor did I find it "normal" : It's not normal to be cruel to people and I wish that adults would stop sending that message to kids.

I say homeschool her.

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by MamaLuna

So, leaving her home alone occasionally is ok, but 2-3 days/week?? Also, I just don't know if yanking her out of school because she's hit this roadblock is the right thing to teach her.

Here are my thoughts: an 11 year old is too young to be home along 2-3 days a week every week, but if you looked into your local homeschooling group, you might be able to find some homeschooling families willing to swap childcare with you or some during-the-day activities she could participate in. Also, can she go to work with you?

You say you don't know whether it's ok to pull her out of school because she's hit a road block, but you also say she's miserable. Your daughter only gets one chance to be 11, 12, 13, etc. If she's miserable during that time, she will always remember it. Being a miserable tween/teen is not character building. Give her a shot at being happy in whatever way she thinks will work, as long as it's not patently, overtly unhealthy (like, I wanna dull the pain with weed). To me, her idea of being homeschooled sounds like a reasonable solution.

Namaste!

[Marsupialmom]

I would read Queen Bees and Wanna Bees.

[kathymuggle]

Did she want to homeschool even when her friends were being "friends"?
If the answer is yes, I would homeschool her.

If she has not wanted to be homeschooled in the past, I might wait it out, read the books (OK - read them no matter what you do ), and work on coping/social skills, while taking the school to task on bullying. I would not wait it our forever though - if she is not happier in a few months, I would pull her out of school. School is not a good fit for all kids, KWIM? It also takes a certain amount of time to figure out how you are going to make homeschooling work, and to find a peer group she is comfortable with (it took us about a year , however - better a little lonely than miserable, and what is lonlier/more miserable than a child with no one to play with at school? )

As for working...if you need the money, you need the money.
Can you work from home?
Can you work in the evenings (2 evenings a week, when DH is home)
Can you teach anything? I have made between 15-50 an hour teaching classes and tutoring. (tutoring: 15$, in class workshops- 50$)

kathy

[dylan]

You're getting some really good ideas here. I just wanted to add that I struggled with pulling my dd out b/c I didn't want to send her the message that running away from problems is okay...so I kept her in for a while...her grades went down, her self esteem went down and as I saw it plummet I realized NO WAY was leaving this situation a bad thing.

It does take time to figure it out - however, when I first pulled dd out to hs her, it was March of grade 3. We just hung out, I found places for her to go when I was working but mostly I work at home. She rode her bike and we read books together....sorta got our feet back and I just didn't worry about her academics. She had been so turned off of school/learning b/c of the bullying that she needed "healing time." And it paid off. We hs all last year and she WANTED to go back this year, and she skipped a grade and is happily interacting with her grade 6-8 class (only 20 kids, different grades and she's the youngest). Her teacher says she is on a completely different level emotionally/socially than any other kid in the CLASS, including the 8th graders.

She's always been like that a bit, but I really believe this experience, and my backing her up and advocating for her rather than telling her "it's normal" or "just ignore it" really helped. And then all the lessons we did regarding friendships and manners and respect...

I glow when I see her now. It was a rough few years.

Your dd needs to you to be on her side and back her up, and it sounds like that's just what your're doing. Maybe if you break from school to hs it'll be just the last half of this year...maybe longer...

Just don't normalize or minimize what is going on. You're doing great I think, asking all the good questions.

[Cherie2]

I just had this realization yesterday .. my dd went to a small school and spent k-5 with the same group (more or less). I really wish I would have pulled her out. There were mean girls and she was not in a very good place in the social structure. I think she has received irrevocable damage by these years with these girls. She now has no strong friendships with anyone she trusts.

[hottmama]

My self-esteem was completely destroyed between 10 and 13. I have a hard time trusting people because of it, I am always afraid that my friends will turn on me, etc. I wish my mom would have taken me out of school when she saw how miserable I was. I would have been better off sitting home alone.

[witch's mom]

I'm watching this thread with interest. I have a 10-year-old fifth grader who has three close friends who she's enjoyed for the last several years. One she met in first grade, the other in second, the other in third, and they're inseparable at school. There occasionally will be some squabbling among the girls--disagreements about how to play something, for example--but so far there have been no mean incidents like that OP is describing. In fact, at this point, I'd say this group of girls is really delightful and supportive of one another. But they're young. One will be 11 soon, and three of them will be 10 until next fall. I know things could change in coming years.

I don't have any thoughts on homeschooling, exactly, but some to share about girl relationships. I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said this mean-girl behavior is NOT NORMAL, and I think it's a crime that so many women consider it to be normal. It is true that many parents tend to write it off as normal girl behavior, and in that way, they endorse it. My younger DD, who is 7, dealt with some "typical" girl-bullying at the hands of our next-door neighbor when they were 4 and 5 years old. People told me it was normal, age-appropriate, whatever. I read those books then, and looked into the future of my mild-mannered, peace-loving daughter, and thought, holy smokes, by accepting this bullying behavior as normal and appropriate, and by training her to accept it and cope with it and by saying things like "she's got to learn to deal with people like this sometime," I am training her to put up with being treated like crap. I agonized about it, but made the decision to withdraw her from the clutches of the kid next door and for the last few years, we've watched that very controlling and competitive child run roughshod over every mild-mannered girl she could befriend. Meanwhile, my younger DD has made some very good friends who treat her well, which she has learned is essential if she's going to allow someone to be her "friend." We have very high standards for friendship in our household!

Mean girl behavior is totally unacceptable, in my opinion, and the more of us who can send that message to our DDs, the more chances there might be of actually changing what's considered the norm. I would be doing everything possible to teach my DDs to run for the hills from girls that do this stuff. Because here's my real fear: If they learn at the hands of mean girls how to survive in a world of manipulative, controlling behavior, I imagine them growing up to get involved with abusive men. If it's what they know, it's what they'll seek, KWIM?

[Laggie]

Have you talked to the teacher about this? Most schools have anti-bullying programs in place these days. I know the teacher can't 'force' these girls to be her friends, but perhaps he/she could bring up the issue in the classroom, and it might sink in. These girls need to get the message that their behaviour isn't cool.

Has this happened before with this group of girls? As in, have they ostracized somebody else in the past? Was there any "incident" that led to it?

This was SO common in my circle of friends when I was a teen/preteen. I really wish somebody had addressed it instead of writing it off as "normal." I am ashamed to admit that it was directed at me, and that afterwards I went on to perpetuate it by excluding other girls.

[KermitMissesJim]

Ah yes, summer sleepaway camp...a chance for me to be bullied non-stop, morning, noon and night, for seven days straight. Invaluable.

I agree that this MEAN GIRL behavior is not what we should accept as normal. I would consider a year of unschooling.

[Momtoatweenandteen]

Originally Posted by MamaLuna

her to boot.
She's not so much a pre-teen like the rest of them, she is very much her own unique person and still has many little girl qualities...all the more reason its hard for her to fit in with the "popular crowd".

This part sounds very much like my daughter who is 11 and in the 6th grade. She too still has many girl-like qualities, and to be quite honest, that's okay with me, especially when she tells me that so-in-so are making out after school. My daughter told me that the "in" thing now is for the girls to ask boys if they want to go steady with them!

My daughter has a few friends in the popular crowd; however, she doesn't hang out with them because it's not a priority for her. The one girl my daughter became good friends with in the 5th grade is now in that Popular group and has a BF, so for now, this is her new interest.
,
My daughter's an excellent student and very perceptive, and for the most part, does her own thing!

Hang in there...she will meet more kids like herself as she gets older.

Debbie

[MamaLuna]

Thank you!!!

to all of you sooo much for the wonderful insight and advice!!

This has truly been helpful! The update today is that dd says that friend #1 has decided to be a friend again and that the reason for the dump is that her parents were on her case to hang out with other (more popular??) kids, to branch out in other words. Hhhmmm.... I mean, I can understand wanting your child to have more than one friend, but I also have to wonder what they have against my dd--other than the fact that they force their child to play sports that she has no desire to play (to keep her out of trouble??) and my dd is not really an athlete, at least not where basketball and volleyball are concerned. But I think that dd has gotten the message that she can't fully trust this friend and should make efforts else where as well.

I do not exaggerate the fact that there is almost no AP families in our little town with children close to dd's age. It makes me sad that she cannot be surrounded by children that she has more in common with and that would be good, faithful friends. Thus one of the reasons that we are considering moving....but not until next year.

As for homeschooling, I am still very much undecided. I really appreciated all the support for it, it is soooo refreshing to hear from moms who support advocating for your child. Too often I feel like I am too much the overprotective mom, and compared to all these other parents, I definitely am! Its just good to hear that you don't have to make kids suffer through everything! I certainly did as a kid, and as other posters have said, I still don't think I have fully recovered my self-esteem, or my trust!

I will definitely get ahold of those books recommended!! Thanks for the suggestions.

Anyways, thank you all again for your wisdom!
My best to you, E

[sphinxie]

Originally Posted by dylan

You're getting some really good ideas here. I just wanted to add that I struggled with pulling my dd out b/c I didn't want to send her the message that running away from problems is okay...so I kept her in for a while...her grades went down, her self esteem went down and as I saw it plummet I realized NO WAY was leaving this situation a bad thing.

I think the social conflict is something one could deal with, but the isolation it leads to is more deeply harmful to a kid.