is adoption a big 'issue' for you? - Page 2

[Laurel]

BCFD, thanks for the compliments. I don't feel all that eloquent. I also feel like I have a rather narrow experience with adoption, since my children were adopted domestically as newborns and are the same race as I am.

I too have had some deeply spiritual experiences when it comes to bringing our children into our family. I won't go into depth because they are so personal, but I did have a strong impression relating to when my ds was conceived, and I think I mentioned in the adoption stories thread that my dd was born the night of my mil's viewing, something that I absolutely believe was not coincidence. At the time of mil's death, we hadn't even been considered, much less selected. Within a few days we had a new baby. The agency workers chose us since dd's birthmom did not want to do that, and two different workers told me of the amazing experience they all had in feeling that we were "the" family for this baby.

Emilie wrote:

I follow the everything happens for a reason line of thinking.... it is hard from an adoptees or bio moms pov tho to see it this way?

I don't know the answer to this, it is probably as individual as the people involved. I do know that my ds's birthmom related some rather spiritual experiences when it came to choosing us as her baby's family. I've heard a number of birthmoms speak on panels with our agency, and many of them have also described having very "deep" experiences as they selected the adoptive family.

I feel that even if my children were "meant to be" in my family, that doesn't negate the special connection they have to their birth families. I think the term "meant to be" can mean a lot of things, I don't think it necessarily means my kids were pre-destined to be mine or were only meant to be mine. I don't know, it's hard to explain. I"m not sure I understand it myself, ). I do know that I have felt and sensed certain things that really cannot be explained or made up.

Emilie, thank you for being open and being willing to come here. I wish there was more sharing between all members of the adoption triad, more openness and honesty, and that we all did not have to feel threatened by the emotions of one another (even as I admit that I do feel threatened sometimes). You're right, it IS hard to understand something that we have not experienced, even if it right in our own homes.

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by sesa70

I have spoken to many adult adoptees for whom adoption is 'no big thing' and just the way they entered their family.

As an adoptive mom who was adopted herself as a child, I totally agree. Adoption is simply one of many facts about my life. I hope my ds feels the same way as he grows up.

Reading some threads around here one might come to the conclusion that adoption is a trauma that can never be overcome...and it may feel like that to some. It's nice to hear from others who have been able to take it in stride.

[BCFD]

Laurel, in fact I read your birthstory yesterday and just sat there with my mouth open when I read the part about your MIL (I'm very sorry you lost her).

Here is one thing that always makes me believe DD#1 was my destiny.... I did an IVF cycle in Feb. 2004 and got pg. I made it to 7w1d when I then had to have 2 shots of methotrexate to "kill the placenta cells" as they so beautifully put it. Basically, my baby had died and was being reabsorbed into my uterus. At 7w1d they couldn't see anything and feared another ectopic, so methotrexate was suggested. When the 2 women from the oncology dept. came down to administer the injections I was balling my eyes out because I just couldn't believe that my baby was gone. We had worked so hard for him/her for it to end like this. So, they injected me, and then over the loudspeaker I heard a lullaby. An actual lullaby being played....very loud. Just then, 2 people walked by my room and I heard them talking and one said, "Ooooh...looks like another baby was just born". I found out that when a baby enters the world in that hospital, the lullaby is played over the loudspeaker to essentially announce to everybody his/her arrival. How weird is it that a baby was being born just as my baby was "dying"?

But that's not even the weird part. My due date was 11/11/04. DD#1 was born on 11/19/04 and they think that she was 1 or 2 weeks past due, making her due date probably right around 11/11/04. I have always said that my baby's soul came back to find me. It just so happened to be through another woman's uterus. I will forever believe that in my heart. To this day, I still tear up almost daily looking at her and feeling as if my heart is going to explode from so much love. I love all 3 of my children equally, but DD#1 is my special girl. She made me a mommy and I feel a very different connection to her.

Anyway...that's my story and why I believe my children were meant to be with me. I need to post my adoption story sometime when I get a chance. It's pretty incredible if I do say so myself.

[Laurel]

hhurd wrote:

Reading some threads around here one might come to the conclusion that adoption is a trauma that can never be overcome...and it may feel like that to some. It's nice to hear from others who have been able to take it in stride.

So what makes the difference? Is it mostly a personality/temperament thing? Or is it more to do with the way the adoptive parents handled the subject of adoption? I of course hope that my children take it in stride too. But if they don't or can't, I don't want to dismiss that. I don't want them to feel that I don't care about their experience. I also do want to encourage their resilience. Emilie, I'd like your feedback too, as the one thing that I keep getting when I read stories like on your support thread (which I've only lurked on a few times, btw) is that you all feel like you're not being heard--that adoptive parents don't want to really hear what you're trying to express.

Right now, since they are very young, we handle adoption as though it's a positive thing in their lives and though we talk about it openly, we present it as being "no big deal".

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by Emilie

I follow the everything happens for a reason line of thinking.... it is hard from an adoptees or bio moms pov tho to see it this way?

As a birthmom yes it is hard to see it that way.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by Laurel

I don't know the answer to this, it is probably as individual as the people involved. I do know that my ds's birthmom related some rather spiritual experiences when it came to choosing us as her baby's family. I've heard a number of birthmoms speak on panels with our agency, and many of them have also described having very "deep" experiences as they selected the adoptive family.

Hmm I have known a lot of birthmoms since I lived in a birthmom home while pg with my son. I can't say I've ever heard anyone talk about spiritual experiences. Knowing you had the right couple yes but not "meant to be" in the way you seem to be meaning it. My son had his 15th birthday recently and I was talking about it in a journal on another site and a buddy who is an adoptee said something about how she like to think of it as not a hormonal mistake but that she was her adoptive parents child. She meant so well but at the same time it was such a hurtful comment. I don't think of my children as a hormonal mistake nor do I think of them as having never been mine at all but only the adoptive parents' from the moment of their existence. I don't have a problem with an adoptive parent feeling that way but I don't know that many birthmoms would agree with it feeling that way on their end.

To the PP who said adoption is beautiful but also about loss yes it is. It really is and that does seem to get neglected. People recommend adoption to pg teens as though it's a fix all. You get to get your life back and a nice couple gets a baby. Everybody wins! Well it is not that easy for the birthmom. It's not like her feelings are just magically cut off when her parental rights are terminated. I wish that were true.

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by Laurel

So what makes the difference? Is it mostly a personality/temperament thing? Or is it more to do with the way the adoptive parents handled the subject of adoption?

Great questions. I think it's both my personality and how it was handled, at least in my case. I always knew I was adopted (in 1970), it was never a secret. I remember when my brother was adopted, (in 1973). The lack of secrecy makes all the difference in the world, I think. When I was young, I used to delight in telling people I was adopted because they were always so interested, and never in a negative way. I don't remember a single negative comment. That helped shape my idea that adoption is "no big deal." If anything, I was made to feel more special and unique because of it...

[EFmom]

I would have to agree that in our family adoption isn't a "big thing" but it is "a thing." I think I would be doing my daughters a disservice if I didn't recognize that adoption is part of their reality. We adopted transracially, so it's probably something they think about on some level every time they look in the mirror. We talk about adoption and birth mothers and their country of origin a fair amount in a pretty matter of fact way.

By the same token, adoption is perfectly normal to them. It is a factor in their family and in the families of a number of their friends. One thing I strive to do above all else is to keep it a topic that they feel comfortable talking about, hopefully to us, but if not, to some of their friends who were adopted.

In no way do I feel that God had any part in our being our daughters' parents. Their parents had to face some difficult circumstances. We are very, very fortunate that we ended up being our dds' parents, but I don't believe in a supreme being who micromanages everyone's fate, yet makes some people deal with horrible stuff. I'm not putting down anyone who believes otherwise--I just don't believe it myself.

[Buddhamom]

In my heart yes, it is a big deal because without the process and laws surrounding adoption Drihan would not be my daughter so I hold it very dear to me. But, I don't walk around saying "hey, this is my adopted daughter." I have said this before I feel adoption is something that happened one day at finalization....period. It is not a word that describes her. I think we all have different stories too. We are not in contact with "F" per her request. I am fine with that. We didn't have that chance to meet her or see what she looks like and there is no b-father in the picture because he is unknown. We all will know what degree to discuss it with our children by following their cues and questions. It will always be a learning process because everyday will bring new feelings for us and our children. I feel no differently about my older bio daughters. Actually I take that back, I feel a little stronger and more appreciative of the baby because we went through all the infertility before she came along and none with the older two. But I don't feel differently because she came to us through adoption. I think for a lot of people it is lack of understanding/education or perhaps they don't think they could love a child that wasn't born to them. Even in the adoption community I sometimes feel odd because there are people who say they could accept a child that was adopted but they can only do it is they are white or bi-racial. Just like the other Mommies, they have their limits and I just respect that.

[mamanicki]

Originally Posted by wasabi

But that is what the lactivism board is about. That section of the board is not about the women who can't BF for any number of reasons. It's about getting people to BF period. You really shouldn't take that personally but if it is upsetting to you then maybe the other sections of the BFing boards are better places to be because the lactivism section is supposed to be the one place where you don't have to "of course I don't mean you." And to be honest this board may be that place for me. I'm trying to figure that out right now.

You know I've been thinking about this a lot since I read a thread about APs being so offended by the whole bash on formula and bottles. Because I just don't get it. I consider myself to be a lactavist. I hate formula. I hate bottles. They are part and parcel with adoption most of the time and I understood that going in. I don't know why someone who feel personally offended by talk against formula and bottles?? I know this isn't exactly on topic anymore but I really want to understand this because I really honestly just don't get it. Do those of you who are offended by this kind of thing actually LIKE formula? And bottles? :

Edited: I didn't read ahead. Clearly there ARE a lot of people here who actually do like formula and bottles. My bad. I just can't relate.

[mamanicki]

Originally Posted by Sarahbunny

What would really get everyone up in arms is the fact that I think my mom was THRILLED we adopted, so that I couldn't breastfeed. She's quite anti-breastfeeding. : Isn't that strange? I mean, she has very strong feelings about it.

You know, my mom was the *exact* same way! That's really crazy becuase she had all these ridiculous assumptions that because our baby would be bottle-fed that she would have this whole different role with her where she would babysit and give bottles, etc. Um, no. We still parent the same if not encouraging attachment even more! We certainly were not eager to leave her with Grandma or have others besides DH and I give her a bottle. And plus we *are* nursing too and if I had my druthers, we'd be exclusively nursing.

I'm sure we highly disappointed her.

[Laurel]

The lactivism board doesn't bother me. There are a few posters who are really over-the-top, but once I realized the problem was them and not me, I felt a lot better. I take a lot of what's said with a heavy grain of salt. When I was first coming out of my failed adoptive-nursing experience with ds, it was a lot more emotional for me. It does bother me that some posters there can't seem to see the mother behind the bottle. But there are many other things discussed there that I think are valuable and that I wholeheartedly support. I guess I have just learned to distance myself emotionally and to not personally care what they think.

I do hate formula and bottles, though. Formula is something necessary to keep my dd alive. It's not poison, but it's defintely second-best to me. I don't dwell on it too much, because I feel there's no point in over-stressing about something that I can't change.

[mamanicki]

Originally Posted by Laurel

I do hate formula and bottles, though. Formula is something necessary to keep my dd alive. It's not poison, but it's defintely second-best to me. I don't dwell on it too much, because I feel there's no point in over-stressing about something that I can't change.

Laurel - I'm glad I'm not totally alone in feeling this way. I don't see formula as poison but I do see it as akin to medicine. A necessity.

I don't give much thought to it overall. It doesn't bother me to bottlefeed and rely on formula nearly as much as I thought it would. But I also don't make the leap that people who think formula and bottles are terrible are being critical of ME. Maybe I'm just blissfully naive

[mamanicki]

Originally Posted by hhurd

Who wouldn't be personally offended to read that another person thought what you fed your infant was poison? Or, as one thread put it, ff is comparable to child abuse. That's pretty offensive in my book. I'm not offended by encouraging moms to bf (quite the opposite), but I've NEVER understood the need to demonize ff to do so. .

Well when you put it like that, it does sound pretty offensive.

I think that I just don't read it like that at all. I am glad it is available for my daughter or she would be dead. I feel the same way about medications but I would prefer things were different and I don't have to give medication. I don't like relying on it, I wish things were different but they are what they are and I would rather rely on it than have a dead baby.

I think when I read that stuff, there is an unspoken footnote that precludes the use of formula out of necessity. I do know a few major zealots who would dismiss adoption as a parental option out of hand due only to the possibility that they might have to use formula. And I know some people who would rely on donated milk or wet nurses before feeding formula if they adopted (although, frankly, I don't personally know anyone who HAS adopted and gone to such lengths, they must exist though). Still I consider those people to be in the extreme minority, even amongst Lactivists. And mostly, as was previously posted, if someone says "hey what about me? I adopted" then the response is "well of course you don't count" and so I just make the immediate leap to assume that I don't count when I read those things.

[EFmom]

No, I don't hate formula. I'm very, very glad that I had formula that allowed my children to not only survive, but to thrive as they did. I read all the stuff about how ff is soooo difficult, but that was not my experience at all. To the contrary, it couldn't have been simpler.

I'll even be honest. I suspect that had I given birth to children, I probably would have hated every minute of bf. I would have done it, mind you, because I do think it's better for the child. But I would never have enjoyed it the way some women seem to.

I have to admit that I think some of the extremely over the top people think that we aren't "real mothers."

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Laurel

I do hate formula and bottles, though. Formula is something necessary to keep my dd alive. It's not poison, but it's defintely second-best to me. I don't dwell on it too much, because I feel there's no point in over-stressing about something that I can't change.

That's how I feel too, although "hate" does seem like a strong word for something that keeps my children alive and helps them grow and be healthy. I have definitely softened toward bottles and formula since they have become a necessity in my family's life, and I am a huge advocate for bottlenursing for folks like us who have to bottlefeed.

I do believe bottlenursing can be as good as breastfeeding in terms of *bonding.* However, in a general sense and in terms of health, bottlefeeding with formula is not "as good..." it is simply "good enough."

I consider myself to be a breastfeeding advocate. For those mother-baby pairs who can do it, even just non-nutritive comfort nursing, I think it is a woooooonderful thing. I do what I can to support it, though I am now a bottlefeeding mama.

That said,

Who wouldn't be personally offended to read that another person thought what you fed your infant was poison? Or, as one thread put it, ff is comparable to child abuse. That's pretty offensive in my book. I'm not offended by encouraging moms to bf (quite the opposite), but I've NEVER understood the need to demonize ff to do so.

I feel this way too. Especially the part I bolded.

And I can say that I had an experience which also made me very sensitive to be gentle even with mamas who could physically breastfeed, but choose not to, even as I know in my heart there is a better choice. This experience had to do with working with women who had been sexually abused as children and who were mamas. For some, there are periods in which breastfeeding proves to be a "pyschological impossibility," and the best we can do for everyone is to be gentle and help folks heal as best we can. 1 in 4 women have been sexually abused before reaching 18, and we really have no way of knowing what other mamas are struggling with.

Yet at the same time, again, I feel much as Laurel does in the broad sense, and I definitely want to live in a world where breastfeeding is the norm and supported culturally...which is not where we are at this point.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by Laurel

I do hate formula and bottles, though. Formula is something necessary to keep my dd alive. It's not poison, but it's defintely second-best to me. I don't dwell on it too much, because I feel there's no point in over-stressing about something that I can't change.

Exactly my son and my daughter were formula fed. I don't for a second feel that their mother should have BFed them. If she chose to then fine that would have been her choice but I certainly don't fault her for not going through all that she would have gone through to make that happen. Not to mention which she had reproductive cancers as a child such that I'm not even sure it would have been possible for her to lactate at all. I like to take some comfort that the kids did get some health benefits from my mom BFing me which does carry down generations. Blah blah blah yes BFing is good. It should be the norm but there are situations where it's not possible and no one should feel guilty about that. And yes people can go overboard on those boards. I mean technically I did not do CLW because I chose to wean my 4 year old. My 4 year old! The horror. But of course anywhere else that gets me either kudos or strange looks. MDC is great but not all parts of it work for everyone and it's best to find what makes you feel good and not what makes you feel bad jmnsho.

[Emilie]

To the PP who said adoption is beautiful but also about loss yes it is. It really is and that does seem to get neglected. People recommend adoption to pg teens as though it's a fix all. You get to get your life back and a nice couple gets a baby. Everybody wins! Well it is not that easy for the birthmom. It's not like her feelings are just magically cut off when her parental rights are terminated. I wish that were true.[/QUOTE]

As an adoptee who has done some real deep thinking and feeling unto the topic of my adoption and its impact on my life- ( from many angles) it is not easy for an adoptee either- at least not me.
I also will tell you that I did not reach the conclusions that I have met as of now until very recently. Within the last year- once I gave myself permission to really think about it and make some connections and be okay about it.
To go deep I guess is what I am talking about and I am not all the way there yet. IT was not till I realized I needed to DEAL with some of my own issues to be a better mom to my two kids did I get into the topic of my adoption at a real level.
I will post some more later tonight after the kids are asleep.
I hope we can work together on here a bit.... and I can be of some insight as to my life. As I said- I have really spent some time dealing with this here recently. IT has not all been fun but I am glad I have done it.
Maybe I can share some of my truth with you....
I am not anti adoption at all. I am pro education for sure.
Ok....
I also want to say that I think it is okay for you all to feel safe here and not like a bunch of angry adoptees are going to be banging down your pm boxes and stirring the pot. I come in kindness.
Peace
Em

[Emilie]

[
Emilie, thank you for being open and being willing to come here. I wish there was more sharing between all members of the adoption triad, more openness and honesty, and that we all did not have to feel threatened by the emotions of one another (even as I admit that I do feel threatened sometimes). You're right, it IS hard to understand something that we have not experienced, even if it right in our own homes.[/QUOTE]

But most( tho some I see) never experience it as an adopttee- like I have never been an adoptive mom or had fertility issues( I know that is not the only reason to adopt btw)

I also know I did not feel comfortable talking to my mom about my feelings regarding my adoption- then or now- - because I did not find it appropriate to talk to her about it. I grew up hearing adoption was a positive thing. As a child it was kind of .... I don't know.... instilled on me- since that story was told and told- I can rehearse it later for you. But as with anything as you become an adult you begin to investigate how YOU feel about- felt about things- all things. ANd why YOU felt that way. I have come to the conclusion that my positiveness regarding my adoption was instilled in me and that it was not really how I felt about it all together at all.
It is not how I felt about it as a child and it is not how I feel about it now.

That is some of the problem. As a small child you have a small ability to decipher feelings- etc and use language! So you feel like your parents feel. We see that in our kids everyday- right.

[Emilie]

Originally Posted by hhurd

Great questions. I think it's both my personality and how it was handled, at least in my case. I always knew I was adopted (in 1970), it was never a secret. I remember when my brother was adopted, (in 1973). The lack of secrecy makes all the difference in the world, I think. When I was young, I used to delight in telling people I was adopted because they were always so interested, and never in a negative way. I don't remember a single negative comment. That helped shape my idea that adoption is "no big deal." If anything, I was made to feel more special and unique because of it...

This is how I felt too- especiall the unique and special way of thinking. WOW did I glow in that! I am special- my mom and dad picked me. I am ADOPTED.

Only till recently when it was time to look into myself to help better ME for MY kids did I realize some problems I was having actually stem from my adoption and my life in regards to it thereafter. It was a HUGE step for me to say that. Really huge. We do not want to say it was a bad thing- or that any bad feelings because of it. But I do. I did have bad ramifications because of my adoption.

Emilie