is adoption a big 'issue' for you? - Page 15

[krystyn33]

Although no one here is claiming that adoptees are the sole proprietors of attachment disorders, if our feelings come across that way it is because so many of us grew up in a culture of intense denial that such pain could even exist. My parents were basically sold (back in '72) the idea that I was a seamless replacement for the child they were unable to conceive and that I would not remember my first mother or suffer any adverse effects from being separated from her. I certainly believed the latter myself until I was in graduate school...

The fact that this is an attachment parenting forum makes me assume the best of the adoptive parents here. And many of you have expressed great sensitivity and openness to your chidren's unique emotional responses to the loss of their first families. I think this makes a big difference and will only promote any healing that may be needed.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by krystyn33

Although no one here is claiming that adoptees are the sole proprietors of attachment disorders, if our feelings come across that way it is because so many of us grew up in a culture of intense denial that such pain could even exist. My parents were basically sold (back in '72) the idea that I was a seamless replacement for the child they were unable to conceive and that I would not remember my first mother or suffer any adverse effects from being separated from her. I certainly believed the latter myself until I was in graduate school...

This is a good point. Perhaps there's a bit of a generational rift here, since I believe we're all of childbearing age. WHich means that many adoptees here were adopted in the late 70s and earlier. There *was* no widespread open adoption. Similar to how I've heard it is now, people who suffered from infertility couldn't talk about it, and perhaps there was more shame and 'dontdaretalkaboutit' attached to it. Perhaps our parents' generation had their own primal wound from that. That has consequences, intentional or acknowledged or not. I cannot tell you how many times when I have been angry at my parents for something, people have blown it off and said 'eh, you're just angry because you're an adoptee', only to turn around when I try to speak about my experience of adoption and belt me in the face with 'what, you think only adoptees have problems?' It can be maddening.

Even at the time of my adoption in the mid-70s, social workers were still matching physical characteristics between what they projected the baby would look like and the adoptive parents, so that 'nobody would ask questions'. So very many of the adoptees in my age cohort have been told to shut our mouths and be grateful, and had any personal failings blamed on the fact that we were from 'undesirable' stock while at the same time told we're whiners if we dare suggest that SOME of our pain MIGHT have some roots in knowing that we're grafts, not seeded from our family tree. There are strengths, to be sure. And for some people, it doesn't matter. As I've said before, I don't feel that my parents would have treated me differently as a bio kid. I could be wrong, but...I wholeheartedly believe that.

Still, it's undeniable that there is some pain at thinking about could've/should've/would've. Some people fantasize about being adopted, if they're abused. I've never heard anyone peg that as abnormal. Yet when an adoptee expresses a fantasy that things could have been different with the birthfamily, they're shamed and basically told to be grateful, it would have probably been worse.

I HOPE that things will get progressively easier for each generation of adoptees. I am very glad there's more openness about it, and people in general 'see' it much more. However, I don't know. The types of things said amongst the adults don't really seem to have changed that much. Maybe people will be gentler with their own children, than people their own age. I think there's hope in that.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by Amris

And the anger that is held towards her, I think is more for some unjust things she has said, than because she's an adoptive mother. However, I think she's feeling very defensive and attacked (even if she doesn't sense it on the surface)..

I wasn't feeling defensive or attacked until just now .

Not sure what "unjust" things I've said. But whatever.

Although no one here is claiming that adoptees are the sole proprietors of attachment disorders, if our feelings come across that way it is because so many of us grew up in a culture of intense denial that such pain could even exist...

I do think that I understand that, as much as someone can understand something they've not personally experienced.

I'm not trying to minimize or discount the losses of adoption, which are farreaching and profound. It's something that I agonize over in terms of my own daughter and her ability to form a healthy self identity. Like any parent, I DO wish I could take that pain away for her, as I would take away any pain for her if I could. But I cannot, and I must do my best to help her assimilate her grief into a backgound in which she knows she is loved, cherished, and valued above my own life. In other words, she is my child.

[Amris]

Originally Posted by blessed

I wasn't feeling defensive or attacked until just now .

Not sure what "unjust" things I've said. But whatever.

Well, that's a problem then. Because you've said quite a few of them. I think it's important to keep in mind that when you speak in anger, sometimes you can make blanket statements. When those blanket statements are made, they hurt more than just the person you are responding to in anger.

And you have definitely made some very unkind blanket statements.

[Emilie]

So as an adoptive parent who is passionately devoted to my child, I cringe to see everything from sibling rivalry to teen angst being attributed to adoption. Adoptees want and need to discuss the grief of their life beginnings. But guys, you are far from holding the corner market on childhood emotional injuries. And truth be told, it's likely that in most cases the injury from having been reared by incapable and emotionally unattached birthparents is going to eclipse that of having been adopted.[/QUOTE]

IS this sentence for me? I think I am the only one who spoke about my brother and I's issues and the ways we were treated extremely differently.
If not- please say so- I hope it wasn't but if it is- I would like to speak to it.

What happened in my family and to me was NOT sibling rivalry. I thought I had made that clear.

Emilie

[blessed]

Originally Posted by Emilie

What happened in my family and to me was NOT sibling rivalry. I thought I had made that clear.

Emilie

It was the same thing that happened in my family. And in the families of many people I know. That's why I don't understand statements like

I WAS "abused" BECAUSE I was adopted. If I was not adopted I would not have been abused...

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it. I'm not saying that you are not justified in feeling rage towards your parents that you weren't better protected from physical and emotional harm. I'm saying that this type of sibling abuse happens in families of all different constructions. To blame it on adoption is an unfair blanket statement if ever I heard one.

[Emilie]

OK. Now I know where you stand. Really.

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by blessed

The dynamics between some of the discussants in this thread have been interesting to watch. Despite the fact that all participants are grown women, there has a dichotomy whereby many of the adoptive parents are interacting in maternal ways - reassuring, affirming, accepting of all negative behaviors. Meanwhile some of the adoptees assume almost a childish demeanor

I've been thinking of this statement all day, because when I first read it, I thought "yeah, I kinda feel that way about some of the posts, too."

So I've been thinking, and I don't think it's because one group is more mature and one group is more childish. I don't think it's that at all. Think about the title of this thread, and what we've been discussing....for adult adoptees, we're asking them to talk about their feelings growing up, or their feelings of loss as children and adolescents. We're ASKING for discussion about the pain of their childhoods (or the "lack" of pain, for some). If the discussion of those pains comes across as overly angry, or more passionate, or "childish" in some way, why should that be surprising? If a group of people asked me to talk about the pain of being emotionally abused by my mother, to talk about what that *felt* like as a child, teenager, and young adult, I would be using very similar language and tones, I think.

Then there's the adoptive parent "maternal" voice...is it any surprise that we've taken a maternal, affirming tone? I'm sure I'm not the only one, looking at the adult adoptees on this thread and thinking "this could be my daughter." The pain some of the adoptees talk about is one of my greatest fears about adoption...so no wonder that we'd take on a motherly tone, and sort of "practice" our attitudes toward that anger, and affirm it because that's what we've been told to do, and want to do. On some level, when we see adoptive pain we want to reach out and mother.

I don't think anybody here would take on these dynamics if we were discussing anything else--even another topic of adoption. Apart from this thread discussing the pain, I think we'd all just be women with differing and valid viewpoints on various subjects relating to adoption--not "groups" at all. I've said this before and I'll say it again...the emotion, heat, and hurt in this thread wouldn't be the normal state of things if we all lived in this forum, coexisted for a while, and got used to each other. That's a goal worth working toward.

And blessed, while I could just hug and kiss you for being so protective and defensive of my feelings (!) , I *do* think it's a little tough to tell Emilie that her opinion of her own childhood trauma isn't buyable. Any perceived difference, adoption included, can be an excuse for family members to gang up on someone, or ignore or excuse the abuse of someone that's "part of the normal group." In Emilie's case, it was her adoption that made her different in the eyes of her family. She experienced it, so to me... that's her call.

s, folks. I don't want this line of discussion to stop by any means, but anybody else want to start a thread where we could discuss something else related to adoption? Something else that adoptive parents, birth parents, and adoptees might want to talk about and bond over? We have a tremendous amount in common, after all....

[blessed]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

And blessed, while I could just hug and kiss you for being so protective and defensive of my feelings (!) , I *do* think it's a little tough to tell Emilie that her opinion of her own childhood trauma isn't buyable. Any perceived difference, adoption included, can be an excuse for family members to gang up on someone, or ignore or excuse the abuse of someone that's "part of the normal group." In Emilie's case, it was her adoption that made her different in the eyes of her family. She experienced it, so to me... that's her call...

You are unflaggingly gracious, as always. And your words are easy to embrace.

I agree with you. The most treasured relationship of my lifetime - that with my daughter - is defined by having it's origins in adoption. I'm barely able to tolerate criticism of this institution without personalizing it as a devaluation of my love for her.

That is all.

[moonbeem]

I've had guests this weekend and there certainly is a lot to read up on in since i've been away.
First let me say, I wasn't "lashing out" at RedOakMomma, I believe she is very sensitive and compasionate. It wasn't an attack. YES, the video is a tear jerker, but it's still raises profoundly important issues. IMHO an ap who is doing their best (which i think you are ROM) would want to know these things.
Secondly it seems there's been more disscussion about my motivations for sharing the video than the actual content. weird - who actually watched it?
Third, I'm afraid don't have the time right now to go more in depth in this conversation, my MIL is coming by soon.
To those of you who choose not to jump to the worst personal conclusions about me, thank you. I'll be back as soon as I can, and read thru and respond (to whats worth responding to.)

moon

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by Amris

I want him to be proud of me. I want him to look at me and say, "Wow, my birth mom is cool!" A part of me thinks that, after the day that I watched him go home with someone else... anything else, and I mean ANYTHING, is easy.

^^ How pathetic am I, eh? :

Not pathetic at all. I understand that drive completely. I threw myself into college and grad school because it was like "well if I don't have my kids I need to have done something incredibly worthwhile when I didn't have them." Sort of "Look at all I did! Isn't it awesome." Though actually maybe we are saying different things . But anyway I certainly understand wanting your child to think you are cool. As I get closer to a time when I may be reuinited with my kids I worry very much about being the weird birthmom that wants so much from them because I do still love them so much and they don't even know me. So I do hear where you are coming from.

[Emilie]

I will try to convey what I mean better. I do not think adopting is abuse at all!!! Quite the contrary imo.

I think- in my family- I was mistreated because I was an adoptee. I do not think this was intentional on my parents part- i think it comes from being unaware and in denial.
I can go from the petty to most severe- but I just can not go there now.
I do know for a fact that I am, was and always will be treated differently in my family due to the fact that I am adopted.
I do not think that is the case in your homes! In my home and extended family it was the case and still is the case.
My case with my brother is not usual from what I know. I have discussed it but it is very private and painful for me since I am still a part of my family and it is a wound that is "salted" with regularity.

I could give more and more details to "convince you " of what happened to me but after much thought this evening I have come to the conclusion that it is not important. It would do no good - especially for me as ithis is a painful topic for me and very painful to be told I am lying. More than you will ever know since that is what I was told forever and why I have the hardest time figuring out if my feelings and the way I see things is right or wrong - since for the better part of my life I have had people convince me otherwise.

If anyone would like more information on me, my childhood and the abuse that I suffered please feel free to pm me. I am willing to share but unwilling to debate this issue and I appreciate the continued respect as I hope we all can go on to discussing and sharing from one another.

Emilie

[TigerTail]

More of the same old 'adoptees are children forever' nonsense ("can they handle the info?") We're adults (in some cases decades older than the adopters- a lot more time to have given this thought, than a woman in her thirties who's adopted in the last couple years).

I haven't seen any one of us cast personal aspersions on any adoptive parent's motives.

[Emilie]

I agree with you. The most treasured relationship of my lifetime - that with my daughter - is defined by having it's origins in adoption. I'm barely able to tolerate criticism of this institution without personalizing it as a devaluation of my love for her.

That is all.[/QUOTE]

Why are you upset with what I am saying and saying that it is not true instead of believing me and being upset about my parents and the way they treated me as a abuse of adoption?

I think that is something worth looking into.

Emilie

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

More of the same old 'adoptees are children forever' nonsense ("can they handle the info?")

TT, if this was directed toward my post, please tell me where I offended so I can work on it or clear it up. Thanks. Because I don't believe that at all, that "adoptees are children forever," and that isn't what I was trying to say in my post.

[Emilie]

I won't speak for TT... but I don't think she is speaking about you ROM.
She will better be able to explain it tho and shoot I may be wrong. But IMO you are a nice mama- all of you are.
Emilie

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by blessed

I understand the fantasy of the victimized birth mother, capable, loving, unfairly torn from her child and pining for their reunion. That's not the reality in the vast majority of adoptions.

Thanks, Blessed. You are BRAVE.

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by Sarahbunny

But, I don't think of my mom as a baby thief. Nor do I think of her as a saint either, though, who saved me from a terrible life. I just think of her as my mom.

I also don't think of myself as a baby thief or a saint. I adopted for me. Well, me and DH. I wanted a family. And C wanted her baby to have a family and we met and connected instantly and had the same views on parenting.

Sarahbunny, I could have written that. Thanks.