is adoption a big 'issue' for you? - Page 3

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by hhurd

Who wouldn't be personally offended to read that another person thought what you fed your infant was poison? Or, as one thread put it, ff is comparable to child abuse. That's pretty offensive in my book. I'm not offended by encouraging moms to bf (quite the opposite), but I've NEVER understood the need to demonize ff to do so.

And yes, I guess I do like formula and bottles because they nourished my baby when he needed nourishment. And yes, he thrived and at 4.5yo he's still thriving. My milkless boobs just don't compare.

I agree with the above.

I don't hate formula and I don't hate bottles. I induced lactation for DD#2, nursed her exclusively with a Lact-Aid for 6 solid months (only had about 50 drops of milk every time I pumped), promote breastfeeding to those moms to "choose" to use formula, and even with DD#1 she got breastmilk (in a bottle) for about 2 solid months thanks to a wonderful friend of ours who had an over the top milk supply. I am all for breastmilk and I do think it's superior to formula. I am glad that my 2 children at least got the benefits of some human milk.

However, for me personally, I bonded more quickly and much deeper with my bottlefed/formulafed DD#1. I believe this happened because of my 4 year struggle with infertility and how thankful I was to finally have her in my arms. She made me a mommy and she holds a very special place in my heart.

Those 6 months of nursing DD#2 with a LA was miserable. The first few weeks seemed ok and I was gung ho about it. The LA was horribly fumbly, frustrating, and not fun for either of us. In fact, I think nursing her actually damaged our bond during those months because we were both so frustrated. I actually sometimes regret the choice I made to nurse her.

I was a part of a local AP moms group that all BF and I basically was trying to meet their standards of what a "real" mom was. My body had already failed me as a woman (infertility) and I thought that if I could only nurse my child and have milk flowing from my breasts I could be like them....."real" moms.

Looking back, I now realize how wrong I was to let these mothers make me feel this way. And that is really what the lactivist board on MDC does to me. It's also why I have been so deeply hurt by Mothering Magazine and cancelled my gift subscription. It reminds me that my body failed me and it's hurtful as a mother to 3 beautiful adopted girls. I realize that they (the lactivists) have a cause, blah, blah, blah, but I have also read some seriously hurtful things there (I've seen the poison thing more than once). I have also seen mods on that board caution women when they get a little too lactivist-y. When I have defended myself I am either flat out ignored or basically told to butt out with the "We are not referring to adoptive moms". I think only on several occassions have I had a mom applaud my efforts at induced lactation. When I see people bashing formula and bottles, it's personal.

Therefore, I agree with EFMom when she said:

I have to admit that I think some of the extremely over the top people think that we aren't "real mothers."

::::sigh:::::

[Emilie]

I will start here.... dd is playing.... ie getting into trouble! LOL.

My parents( mom teacher- dad insurance agent) had been trying to get pg for 8 years- and on an adoption list for 5 of those years. They wanted a girl and all the recent babies had been boys and it felt like they were waiting forever. ( at this time you just got the next baby put up) Finally they got a call! My dad got it and went to the school where my mom was doing teacher conferecnes and passed her a note that I was born and she would have to be taking her adoption leave of absense.
They got to go see me at some point but the doctor who delivered me was out of town and so I was in foster care for 12 days. They got to get a picture of me but had to leave me behind.
They got me on November 11th 1980. I was 12 days old.
There was a big party and all my extended family was there. My mom held me the whole way home.
3 months later my mom got pregnant! After all those years of trying! ( yes- I know this happens- thats what everyones reply is)
9 months later- November 12th 1981 my brother Ben was born.
And my mom got her tubes tied. She will tell you she did not want to be pregnant then- because she already had her baby- Me. But as we do- they tried to adjust.
My dad took care of me alot and my mom my bro since she was nursing- till bro was 2 months old and they won a trip thru my dads office to go to Hawaii for a week- with no kids along. We went to stay with different aunts- seperately while they were gone.

There is the beginning. My "birth story"

[Emilie]

My brother and I were raised along side one another. My mom went back to work when I was 2 and he was one.
We lived in a nice subdivision where they still live. We had a pretty nice life.
Pool, dogs, vacations.
I was told that my birthmom couldnt keep me. I knew she was 22 years old and that my birthfather was 26. I knew they were tall. 5'10 and 6'2.( turns out since i found him he has never been over 6'- she just didn't know!)
I had a file that my dad had in his file cabinet titled adoption. WIth all their paperwork. There was a notebook sheet of paper I would look over all the time that had the particulars about them. It said she was attending a ccollege in the area. I knew she had curly hair what she weighed- etc. Starting in about 5th grade I was sick alot and I would stay home by myself from school ( I always had strep) and I would would go thru that folder. Wondering and wanting. I would watch the reunion shows and cry. I still do. LOL.
My parents did not know about this. I do not really recall talking in depth about my adoption..... we always talked about it just never anything big.
We always got comments about how much I looked like my mom and dad- from people who knew or didn't know. I still do. Wow.... you look more and more like your mom Emilie. Etc. It never bothered me. Sometimes I would tell them- oh- Im adopted. Anymore I just smile and laugh. People still will ask my parents which one is adopted- since my bro looks less like them to some than I do! I am just starting to notice how much he looks like my dad tho- his arms, hands- everything. it is weird.
Gotta go- poopy diaper.
I hope this is what you were looking for.

[lauren]

Several posts were removed due to violations of the UA, #8 which states:

8.Do not start a thread to discuss member behavior or statements of members made in other threads or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.

There were too many to request edits.

[Emilie]

I looked in my journal and found some things of interest I feel if you truly care about the inner workings of my mind. lol.

Adopted. What does it mean?

To be given away... "put up"....
At birth or thereafter your mother who concieved and carried you decided she could not , would not, should not - keep you.
The next logical question to that statement is WHY.
Does it matter why?
My biological mother was....( fill in the blank) druggie, college student, unwed, poor, raped, in jail, hated kids, mentally ill,
Which biological mother would you pick?
So- does it matter why you were given up? Does it soften the blow?
IT doesn't matter why. None of the options are fair. But they are what they are- legitimate reasons.
So... you go to a family that wants you versus the family- who doesn't.( i know this is not true- but it is the world of opposites- if one family wants you- mustn't the other family- not.)
And your life story begins with..... When I was born I was adopted.
What does that mean again?
When I was born my mother gave me away.
Oh- why. Well- does it matter? What could I say to make it better for you?

So I could fill the next 5 pages with pony rides and puppies or horrendous injustices and abuse.

But does it matter?
To who?

I could soften it a bit and say But she gave me to a really nice family who really wanted kids.
Oh wait- but wouldn't that mean my birthmother didn't want me?

Why didn't she want me?

Oh she did want me. Oh ok.

Well than why didn't she keep me?

Was there something wrong with me? Was there something wrong with her?

Oh- she was too young? Ok. Too poor? Oh.... ok.

What does that mean to me? I am 2. I am 6. I am 26. I am 48.

What does that mean to me?




I guess this is my attempt to answer the question and to shed light on the request from adoptive parents to know WHAT my parents did to me! Why am I angry about my adoption?
I understand this is in effort for them to NOT do that! Which I commend fully. This may ( or may not) shed light on why it would be difficult to say exactly without taking this into account....... without saying this first.
How many pony rides would it take?
How many I love you's will make it better?

[Buddhamom]

Emilie, have you read The Primal Wound? It may be something that you would find interesting.

[ibex67]

Originally Posted by mamanicki

You know I've read a lot about this issue on both sides. I used to think it was no big deal but after doing some reading and talking to some adult adoptees, I think that having such a cavalier attitude (me, not you ) could possibly hinder my adopted daughter. I think, like most parenting areas, this is another area that requires a sort of delicate balance.

By assuming adoption is no big deal you could very well completely devalue what your own adopted child/ren feel or experience. The fact is that many adopt adoptees have felt like being adopted affected them in all kinds of ways, regardless of how wonderful or loving their adoptive parents were. Many adopted children, even infants, come into their forever families with a whole history of loss and pain and it can devalue that history to just pretend that it did not exist. I know, for me, the minute I met my daughter it felt like we had known each other for a lifetime. I have to work, daily, to remember that she had a history before me and may have pain and loss to grieve and just because *my* experience was that it felt like she had grown in my womb doe snot necessarily mean that was *her* experience.

At the same time, I think it is important to not make adoption who the child IS. I think sometimes the pendulum swings so violently that a parent can start to see everything a child says and does as a reflection of their Adoption Status instead of just as normal age-appropriate behavior or curiosity. I think this is just as harmful.

So my opinion is that, yes, it is an issue. No, it is not a BIG issue. There is a healthy balance where we don't make it who our child is and we don't pretend it is a complete non-issue either.

Thank you for this. It is excellently expressed and reflects what I believe as well.

[ibex67]

Originally Posted by wasabi

Hmm I have known a lot of birthmoms since I lived in a birthmom home while pg with my son. I can't say I've ever heard anyone talk about spiritual experiences. Knowing you had the right couple yes but not "meant to be" in the way you seem to be meaning it. My son had his 15th birthday recently and I was talking about it in a journal on another site and a buddy who is an adoptee said something about how she like to think of it as not a hormonal mistake but that she was her adoptive parents child. She meant so well but at the same time it was such a hurtful comment. I don't think of my children as a hormonal mistake nor do I think of them as having never been mine at all but only the adoptive parents' from the moment of their existence. I don't have a problem with an adoptive parent feeling that way but I don't know that many birthmoms would agree with it feeling that way on their end.

OMG. Thank you for this. On so many levels. Adoption -- actually any facet of life -- is so effected about the stories we tell about it. This is such a powerful example of how the story an adoptive mom tells about her life which feels so empowering and affirming to her could be so disempowering and dissmissive to the first mom and to the adoptive child too in a way.

As an adoptive mom, I am also grateful to hear you say this, because it validates my feelings as well. I do not feel that my adopted daughter was somehow specially destined for me. I love her and she loves me and I am the best parent I know how to be for her, but I am very aware that if her mother's life had been different, she would never have chosen to give her up. So in a very real sense the only spiritual meaning I get from this is that my daughter has TWO real mothers. And it is only accidents of fate that I got the opportunity to raise her and her first mom did not.

Originally Posted by wasabi

To the PP who said adoption is beautiful but also about loss yes it is. It really is and that does seem to get neglected. People recommend adoption to pg teens as though it's a fix all. You get to get your life back and a nice couple gets a baby. Everybody wins! Well it is not that easy for the birthmom. It's not like her feelings are just magically cut off when her parental rights are terminated. I wish that were true.

Thank you for this as well. I am very leery of anyone who dismisses adoption as "no big deal" or "just another way" to build a family. At the risk of making some people angry, I will say that IMO, anyone who doesn't see/isn't willing to address/ the losses that come with adoption [on the part of all members of the triad] isn't really ready yet to be an adoptive parent.

[ibex67]

Originally Posted by Sierra

However, in a general sense and in terms of health, bottlefeeding with formula is not "as good..." it is simply "good enough."

Very well said!!! There is no reason that parents who have to FF can't fundamentally agree with most lactivists.

Sometimes we have to settle for "good enough." We're all human and we are doing the best we can.

[GruppieGirl]

I firmly believe that children choose their parents.

With that said, I believe that I chose my adoptive parents. Since I couldn't come the "conventional" way, I had to be rerouted.


I have a brother who is five years younger and my parents biological child. I never felt any different from him nor did anyone in my family make any distinctions. Now that I am older and wiser I can see many personality triats that are similar with my brother and extended family that I do not have in common. I guess that's my own personaly study of nature vs. nurture.


Another poster talked about fmaily members just forgetting that they are not biologically related. That happens to us all of the time. My dad was once asked about my birth. He just couldn't remember and after a few minutes of feeling like he was losing his mind, he finally remembered that he wasn't at my birth.


One thing that was strange for me when my biological kids were born is how much people like to try to tell you that your kids look like you. I seriously always shrugged them off like they were lying. It had never even crossed my mind that I could look like someone else. Sounds weird I know, but hopefully those who were adopted can relate.

[ibex67]

Originally Posted by Emilie

I also know I did not feel comfortable talking to my mom about my feelings regarding my adoption- then or now- - because I did not find it appropriate to talk to her about it. I grew up hearing adoption was a positive thing. As a child it was kind of .... I don't know.... instilled on me- since that story was told and told- I can rehearse it later for you. But as with anything as you become an adult you begin to investigate how YOU feel about- felt about things- all things. ANd why YOU felt that way. I have come to the conclusion that my positiveness regarding my adoption was instilled in me and that it was not really how I felt about it all togethr at all.
It is not how I felt about it as a child and it is not how I feel about it now.

That is some of the problem. As a small child you have a small ability to decipher feelings- etc and use language! So you feel like your parents feel. We see that in our kids everyday- right.

A lot of parenting wisdom here. And not just about adoption. What a great reminder that as parents we need to preserve and protect our children's space and ability to frame their own experiences, share their own reality, feel their own feelings, tell their own stories. That even when motivated by a desire to protect our children and give them happy and secure upbringings, we must be careful not to stifle their realities. Thank you for everything you are sharing, Emilie.

[VegHipMama]

Originally Posted by BCFD

I have always said that my baby's soul came back to find me. It just so happened to be through another woman's uterus. I will forever believe that in my heart.

I read an article quite a few years ago that forever changed my feelings about having had so many miscarriages. The mom wrote that she believed, to the depths of her being, that when her child was born after years of miscarriages, it was the same soul that had been trying for years to be born to her. Finally, the physical body was born alive & healthy, but it was the same "being". If that could happen to her, why couldn't it also be true the way it happened to you, you know?

Considering how stubborn and fiercely loving my first-born is, I'd say it happened to me, too!

[VegHipMama]

Originally Posted by hhurd

Great questions. I think it's both my personality and how it was handled, at least in my case. I always knew I was adopted (in 1970), it was never a secret. I remember when my brother was adopted, (in 1973). The lack of secrecy makes all the difference in the world, I think.

: I think that adoption is an entirely different animal these days. Look at how y'all are asking questions, reading books, maintaining open connections with the birth parent(s), trying to get it right for your children's sakes. I think that as long as you truly love your children, try to do what's best for them, and are always mindful of their personalities so that you don't override their needs with what you THINK are their needs(!), it'll be OK.

Speaking from experience, adoption becomes a HUGE issue for an adoptee when there is abuse, neglect, or lack of understanding/compassion in the family. But it is always an issue, somewhere in the back of the mind, no matter how wonderful the family is. At some level, you realize that the only reason you're there is because something went wrong. As agonizing as the decision is for the birth mother, whether to abort/adopt/keep an unwanted baby, there's no getting around the "unwanted" part from the kid's point of view. A wonderful, loving family will always mitigate that kernel of pain, but it's going to be there, somewhere, in the subconscious. Maybe not when they're little, but the older they get, the more they will be aware that their birth story isn't just a beautifully wrapped present.

At the same time, I think there's something extra sweet about knowing that your adoptive parents weren't "stuck" with you....they wanted you, big time. In the long run, that's a huge comfort.

[athansor]

I've been lurking in this thread...and I'm kind of an odd case, because I'm adopted (haven't been able to find birth parents yet) and had a pretty happy childhood, still have a great relationship with my parents.

I'm also a birthmom....as 20 years ago, I gave birth to a daughter and placed her up for adoption. (I have been putting myself out there to see if we can reunite)

I'm also a relatively new mom...of a son who was born 2 years ago.
Finally, I'm ttc again and so far it hasn't happened yet. Of course, with a toddler, we haven't had much time! However, I'm not as young as I used to be and we are starting to look into adoption as a possibility.

So, I've been all around the adoption issue. I knew from very early on that I was adopted (I can't remember not knowing). I don't know if it is appropriate to say that even though I'm adopted, a birthmom, and possibly considering adoption, that it is not as big of an issue as it should be. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm in denail, or missing something important becasue I don't think about it as much as I should, and haven't devoted a lot of effort to search for birthparents or my birthdaughter. I'm not even sure of my ethnic/racial makeup (which is kind of strange sometimes). I do know that my mom and dad were good parents (and grandparents now)...a bit of a product of their times and sort of suprised by a lot of our parenting decisions with ds (i.e. cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, babywearing, and so on), but loving and caring none the less..

[VegHipMama]

Originally Posted by Emilie

Adopted. What does it mean?

To be given away... "put up"....
At birth or thereafter your mother who concieved and carried you decided she could not , would not, should not - keep you.
The next logical question to that statement is WHY.
Does it matter why?
My biological mother was....( fill in the blank) druggie, college student, unwed, poor, raped, in jail, hated kids, mentally ill,
Which biological mother would you pick?
So- does it matter why you were given up? Does it soften the blow?

If it weren't rude, I'd quote the whole post. Emilie really knows how to express important emotions, feelings, thoughts so that others can begin to understand.

Emilie and I had very different experiences as adoptees, and yet our internal fears are identical. I first read that this was universal among adoptees, even the ones in the "best" families, in H. David Kirk's "Shared Fate" (or maybe it was "Adoptive Kinships"). Despite all the positive changes to the adoptive process in this country, I think y'all still have to be aware that as your child gets older, they are going to have very deep, conflicting, painful thoughts on the subject.

But that's what family is for: to help each other through life. Don't take it personally when it happens....just help your child feel loved so that the pain recedes.

[Emilie]

thank you.

I also want to point out that there is a judgement that adoptees who are upset are not "taking it all in stride" as others can. That reflects badly on the adoptee that is dealing with some issues- as a "bad adopttee". Why can't you be one of those "good adopttees" and not worry so much about your adoption! Gosh- most adoptees take it all in stride.

My internal diaologue-
"Oh.... Im sorry.... there must be something wrong with me for feeling bad about being given up by my firstmother at birth. Nevermind. I will not feel that way anymore cause it is uncomfortable for some people. Like my mom who I love and who raised me. who wants to hurt their mom!? Gosh.... I must really be a bad person. They were right to get rid of me. Gosh- how ungrateful can a person be! They took me and gave me this great life and here I want to hurt them and go looking for another family! Nonononono.
Adoption is not a big deal. I had a great life. Being adopted is not a big deal to me. It is to some.... but not to me. Remember I had a nice life.

INternal dialogue. This is my internal dialogue.

So.... in all reality if it makes you feel better that some adult adoptees
"take it all in stride" really- is that what we want? A bunch of people thinking that being given away as infants was "no big deal to them".
Really it seems that would not be beneficial in the long run as far as guaging ones own emotions and ideas on things to be able to artiulate how one actually feels about being given away at birth and raised by another family.

But thats just me.

[Emilie]

Yes... I have read Primal Wound.

I do not read alot on adoption because it is hard for me to read and at our local library there are 2 books. For kids.

I have come up with alot of how I feel right now based on how I feel. Which is VERY new to me.

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by VegHipMama

I read an article quite a few years ago that forever changed my feelings about having had so many miscarriages. The mom wrote that she believed, to the depths of her being, that when her child was born after years of miscarriages, it was the same soul that had been trying for years to be born to her. Finally, the physical body was born alive & healthy, but it was the same "being". If that could happen to her, why couldn't it also be true the way it happened to you, you know?

Considering how stubborn and fiercely loving my first-born is, I'd say it happened to me, too!

Was this a book or article about a woman with two bio sons, as well? I vaguely remember somebody telling me this story and it had something to do with her 2 much older sons and how protective they were of the baby. For years I have wished that I could find this story and read it for myself.

[BCFD]

Originally Posted by VegHipMama

Speaking from experience, adoption becomes a HUGE issue for an adoptee when there is abuse, neglect, or lack of understanding/compassion in the family. But it is always an issue, somewhere in the back of the mind, no matter how wonderful the family is. At some level, you realize that the only reason you're there is because something went wrong. As agonizing as the decision is for the birth mother, whether to abort/adopt/keep an unwanted baby, there's no getting around the "unwanted" part from the kid's point of view. A wonderful, loving family will always mitigate that kernel of pain, but it's going to be there, somewhere, in the subconscious. Maybe not when they're little, but the older they get, the more they will be aware that their birth story isn't just a beautifully wrapped present.

This is something that I do agree with and I fear as an adoptive mom because the thought of my children hurting just hurts me to my very core. However, in all 3 of my DD's cases it was never about being "unwanted". They came from the foster care system as newborns. We have met their birthmoms and they both said that they really made a lot of mistakes. They have both said they wanted to keep their children, but CPS didn't allow that. As much compassion and empathy that I have for these birthmom's, CPS absolutely did the right thing. We knew our 3rd DD was on the way and birthmom said that she wanted to leave the state, start over, and parent this baby. She didn't get it together and CPS stepped in once again. They were never "unwanted" and my children will always know that. I'm not saying we won't have hurdles to jump, but my children were so very wanted by so many people and so loved. They will know their birth siblings (and God willing their birthmoms!) and they will always be able to see themselves in another person (genetics, that is).

[Laurel]

Originally Posted by wasabi

Hmm I have known a lot of birthmoms since I lived in a birthmom home while pg with my son. I can't say I've ever heard anyone talk about spiritual experiences. Knowing you had the right couple yes but not "meant to be" in the way you seem to be meaning it. .

Sorry, I somehow missed your post.

I should clarify that the agency we used is a religiously-based agency, so I think that may explain why many of the birthmoms I've heard would speak about such things--it would be a common language, so to speak, for them. Over the six years we've been involved in adoption, I've listened to dozens of birthmoms express things like this. However, my experience is limited to birthmoms with a similar spiritual background to my own, so I do acknowledge that limitation.

When I say "meant to be" I do not mean that the child has always been destined for that adoptive family...I just mean that the birthmoms I've heard speak have expressed that they felt direction from something higher in helping them find a family that would be right for their child. Something beyond, "well, we click really well, I like them, and we have many of the same views."

We had personal experience with this in a failed adoption. We were approached by ds's birth aunt, who was unexpectedly pg, and asked to adopt her baby. After two months of working together, she started feeling like we were not the right family. In her words, it wasn't anything about us. She loved us because of our prior relationship with her family. She was very much aware of how we parented our son, how we interacted with her sister, and she loved all these things about us..she wanted those things for herself and her child. But she explained it as just a gut level feeling that we were not the right family for her child. The words she used were along the lines of "I need to have a spiritual confirmation that you are the right family, and I don't have that. I will not be able to say goodbye to my baby unless I know she is going to the right family, so I need that confirmation." She went through a very difficult process of sorting through other prospective couples in order to choose someone else. She finally selected another couple, and described it to us as being a "wow!" experience--a spiritual experience..of just instantly knowing in her heart that they were the ones. Logic would have said to place her child in the same family with her biological cousin, especially since she knew, liked, and trusted us already. But something deeper won out. Eventually that adoption also failed because the birthfather did not agree to the adoption plan. So obviously, that baby was not ever "destined" to be with either adoptive family, yet her mother still had these experiences along the way that were real to her.