is adoption a big 'issue' for you? - Page 5

[sesa70]

Oh and Emilie, truly, I do thank you for your posts and sharing your experience. Its important for me to see the thoughts and experiences of other adults who had been adopted that differ from my own so that I can recognize any concerns my daughter may have early enough that she can feel open to talk to me and that she can be honest about her concerns. Without your perspective I may have been blind to that, having been optomistic based on my life experiences.

[RedOakMomma]

[QUOTE=Emilie;7250753]I have come to the conclusion that my positiveness regarding my adoption was instilled in me and that it was not really how I felt about it all together at all.QUOTE]

I'm still reading the thread, but I read this and thought it was very profound. I'd imagine that there are some kinds of grief that NO amount of positive parenting, or positive attitudes toward adoption, can heal. That's not the adoptive parent's fault (though, as with any parent, there's always some way to picture "doing it all differently"), and it's certainly not the adoptees fault. When you're very young, and placed for adoption, people think you can overcome anything or "bounce back" or whatever kind of description they give it...but isn't that giving babies or children too little credit?...on some level, babies and children must register it all, and have feelings about it all, before adoptive parents ever get a chance to start in on the work of being positive or thinking positively. I think it's giving adoptive parents too much credit (and perhaps too much responsibility) to assume that the "right" kind of parenting can heal the would that occurs when a child leaves a birth mother.

It's sad, but it seems to me, when that kind of wound persists, that adoptees don't really have the tools they need to heal it until they're grown and can start working on it themselves. That must be a very long wait with a very heavy load. Sad for the person who carries it, and sad for the parents who see that they can't help.

I definitely am approaching this as an outsider, though, so I hope I haven't written anything ridiculous or offensive. I just want to say that's really interesting, Emilie. Thanks for writing that...your perspective means so much to me, as I prepare to bring our daughter home.

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by VegHipMama

No, sorry. It was definitely an article, maybe in Mothering in fact, and it was probably something like 5-7 years ago. I seem to remember that (at least at the time of the story) she just had the one baby, a girl.

Perhaps, BCFD, you were thinking of this one?

http://www.babycatcher.net/excerpt2.html

[Emilie]

Awww! Thanks! Congrats on your upcoming adoption!
Sesa- I think that I reacted a little stunned this morning when I read your post! I have thought about it all day long.

What I meant by your not being able to help your dd should she ever care about her adoption was that it seemed -from your post - that you just could not "get at all" why this would be important. To me I find that attitude inhibitive of actually trying to "help someone"
As we all know our thoughts proclude our actions and words. Even if you never outright say you dont get why your dd just cant get over it- comon it was only 9 months in a womb- She will know you feel that way most likely. I think it is also compounded by the fact that you are an unaffected adoptee really because she may really feel even more alone if she has bad feelings since you were adopted and didn't feel bads?

My first basis when dealing with peoples feelings is trying to understand WHY they feel that way and what it must be like for them. I guess your post made it pretty clear that you had no care to know yourself as to why "some" may find it important and upsetting! Since you stated that you would "never understand".
I think it is understandable for you to say you would never feel that way- but never understanding why someone else( your dd) might is a bit .... I think you owe it to your dd to think about it is all.

My mom was told that I may think about my bparents but then I would just forget about it. I found my bmom at 20. My amom threw such a fit I had 6 years of horrendous guilt and pain and tried to not speak to my bmom. I cancelled a visit and quit talking to her.
6 years later I finally decide to make my own decisions and revisit the topic and my mom says- I thought you'd get over that- I should have known better- I know you. Since I am such a heartless child she thought I was doing this because I did not care enough about her!!!!!!

She never let herself see how IIIIIIIIIII was feeling..

Em

[moonbeem]

yes it is a HUGE issue for me

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by Emilie

If you are not kept by your mother you are in fact given away.

I disagree. The woman who gave birth to me is NOT my mother. IMO, being a mother is not a biological event (radical words on this board, I know). The woman who raised me and supported me these past 36 years is my mother.
The fact that I was gestated in the body of a woman who didn't raise me is of very little interest to me.

Obviously, this is how *I* feel, and I understand that many adoptees feel quite differently, but it is simply not true that *all* adoptees suffer wounds as a result of their having been adopted. And not all adoptees consider the woman who gave birth to them their mothers.

[Emilie]

INteresting thoughts.
Thanks for sharing.
I consider myself to have 2 mothers. The one who concieved me- the one I share my biology and the one who raised me.
Just because I am adopted does not mean that I do not share geneology and dna with anyone.
From what I know..... I share similarities to my biological parents as well as to my adoptive parents. My similarities with my bparents surpasses just looking like them.
I can go into this later if anyone wishes.... but I do believe in genetics and a biological, spiritual connection with my biological parents.
Emilie

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by Emilie

thank you.

I also want to point out that there is a judgement that adoptees who are upset are not "taking it all in stride" as others can. That reflects badly on the adoptee that is dealing with some issues- as a "bad adopttee". Why can't you be one of those "good adopttees" and not worry so much about your adoption! Gosh- most adoptees take it all in stride.
....
So.... in all reality if it makes you feel better that some adult adoptees
"take it all in stride" really- is that what we want? A bunch of people thinking that being given away as infants was "no big deal to them".
Really it seems that would not be beneficial in the long run as far as guaging ones own emotions and ideas on things to be able to artiulate how one actually feels about being given away at birth and raised by another family.

This is something I have talked about with other birthmoms "the myth of the good birthmom" one called it. We're supposed to behave nicely, give up our child and go away so everyone can be happy. We get to have our lives back etc etc. Those of us who are still hurting about it years later are not encouraged to talk about it. So I really do get where you're coming from with this.

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

If you wouldn't tell a woman who's just miscarried that "God must have wanted that baby more than you", then please be very careful about telling me and people like me that we mystically chose our parents before birth. The sentiment is meant nicely, I understand that, but...it's very thoughtless and hurtful when said to the wrong person.

I was thinking about this the other day because when people say things like "the mother is the one who raises the baby" and "9 months doesn't make a mother" etc they're saying being pg doesn't connect you to the baby. Yet would we tell any mother who had a stillbirth or worse yet whose baby died after a few days of life that she was not a mother? That that was not her child? That she didn't matter? If instead the child lived but the mother died would the child be told the birth mother didn't matter and she shouldn't think of her? Why is it so different with the breaking of bonds by adoption? Why is that supposed to not matter then but in any other situation it would?

Originally Posted by sesa70

I just dont understand the importance of biology! What does it matter if your birthmom didnt get off drugs/leave abusive man, etc? Said adopted person has a family that loves them, why must he/she always long for and wonder why they were not with the one that 'left them'? Even in a less involved situation, I dont see anything wrong with just knowing that birthmom didnt want to have kids. It is truly a mystery to me why the 9 months a person spent in a different womans womb even comes into play? Why must that be the focus of everything?

I have to tell you that your post is very offensive to me. I'm reading it and hearing "what does the birthmother matter?! She could not be less important! She carried the baby for 9 months but so what? Big freaking deal!" That feels so incredibly dismissive of her role and importance. She gave you that baby how can she not matter?! Of course you are your DD's mother because you are raising her. I was raised by my step-father and I never call him my stepfather. I never consider my half-siblings as anything less than full siblings. They are my family. That did not stop me from wanting to establish a relationship with my biological father when I was old enough to have a choice about it. I have a relationship with his family as well. They are all part of my family. For a long time I felt I was not allowed to call myself a mother or to feel that these were my children but I have come to the point that I have to acknowledge that I still feel like they are. It's been 15 and 14 years since I gave birth to them but I still feel as though they are my children and so I have to assume I always will at this point. They are a part of me. It kills me that I have such strong feelings for them and do not know them. And absolutely I consider their adoptive mother to be their mother and would not expect or want to try to step in and become their mother figure but absolutely I hope to some day have a place in their family like jeeze an aunt or a godmother or something I don't know. But to acknowledge my importance is not the same thing as displacing or dissmissing the importance of the adoptive family.

[BCFD]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but to me, it doesn't sound like hhurd or Sesa are trying to be disrespectful or hurtful. I can see both sides. My biological mother raised me, but I have adopted 3 children. I can see what hhurd and Sesa is trying to say. For example, my children came to us at birth through the fost/adopt system and I can assure you that there was no "mothering" happening by their birthmoms after their birth. In fact, I find how my children were treated in utero to be very abusive. It's hard for me to call those women "mothers", so my partner and I usually just refer to them by their first names. I look at them being nothing more than a vessel though which my children arrived (almost like a surrogate/egg donor).

Now, having said that, I feel very connected to those women and we have done everything in our power to track them down, meet them, get pictures, and TRY to maintain a relationship with them and other birth family members. Doing this through a county adoption is NOT a simple process. Due to the circumstances, it's not always easy to find them, let alone try to have any sort of relationship with them. My children will ALWAYS be told the truth and I would NEVER try to keep them from finding these women again someday. They see pictures of their birthmoms and we talk about them all the time. They will always know their birth siblings and thankfully we have found a few of them and do maintain relationships with them. But again, some of them are hard to track down and/or hard to have contact with.

I'm sorry for any adoptee on this board who has lived with guilt because they wanted to have a relationship with their birth mom. I think with so many open adoptions these days, the majority of children won't have to deal with such hurtful emotions. But then there are those of us that go the fost/adopt route and have a completely different side of the story. We don't get the nice birthstory about how their birthmoms were 16 and made an adoption plan for them because they loved them and wanted to see them in a good home. We don't get to buy our birthmoms loving gifts and jewelry to remind them that we are all connected (they would wind up in a pawn store).

There are 2 sides to every story and that is mine.

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by BCFD

Now, having said that, I feel very connected to those women and we have done everything in our power to track them down, meet them, get pictures, and TRY to maintain a relationship with them and other birth family members. ...My children will ALWAYS be told the truth and I would NEVER try to keep them from finding these women again someday. They see pictures of their birthmoms and we talk about them all the time.

Thanks BCFD. I wanted to add that whereas I have no desire to meet my birthmother, my family does have a relationship (of sorts) with my son's birthmother. She tends to keep her distance, and seems happy with the occasional email and updated photo. I want to emphasize that is HER choice. We actually lost contact with her for 2 years, because she was busy with other things in her life. Again, her choice. Our (proverbial) door is open to her. My son has a picture of her holding him next to his bed. So it seems that all birthmothers are different too (of course), and not all are conflicted about their decision.

[Buddhamom]

I agree to the statement of different stories. Not ALL b-moms place out of love and wanting to give a better life to the child. What do you say to the child who reads in their records that the only reason they weren't aborted was because by the time b-mom found out she was preg. it was too late??? Or the child that is a product of rape and the mother couldn't stand the thought of keeping them and even if she did she couldn't because the state would take them just as they had taken the older siblings due to severe crack use and police record. Or the fact that it is documented that b-mom got to the hospital and wanted to hurry up, get them out and sign so she could leave and in fact she gave birth and left before signing because she had to wait 48 hours and they had to track her down. Then when she signed said she didnt want to see profiles because she didn't care where they went and doesn't pick up any letters or pictures. See this is what we will be explaining to the light of our life someday. I can only imagine how ths will rip through her. Obviously these details won't be told until she is much older. We are in a semi-adoption and "F" has made it clear she wanted to wash her hands of Drihan. If Drihan wants to find her someday we will try. I highly doubt we will find her since she really had no address. I am grateful that instead of letting the state take her she called our agency even if it was because she didn't want the state to try and reunite them. I am VERY grateful our agency happened to be the first one in the phone book alphabetically too since that was how she picked! So I guess what I am saying is no matter what your situation, you have no idea how they will be affected in the end and you just have to listen and watch for the cues that they give you and always be honest and just be THERE for them!!!

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by hhurd

Thanks BCFD. I wanted to add that whereas I have no desire to meet my birthmother, my family does have a relationship (of sorts) with my son's birthmother. She tends to keep her distance, and seems happy with the occasional email and updated photo. I want to emphasize that is HER choice. We actually lost contact with her for 2 years, because she was busy with other things in her life. Again, her choice. Our (proverbial) door is open to her. My son has a picture of her holding him next to his bed. So it seems that all birthmothers are different too (of course), and not all are conflicted about their decision.

You just described me and the relationship I have with the adoptive mother and yet I've stated how I feel. I mean I don't know if you have an open adoption in the legal sense or how close the birthmom is which may be a factor. I have no idea where my kids are and all communication is through the agency. I usually hear from them about once every year/every other year. I wrote the last letter Nov. 2005 but I'm about to write again because I haven't heard back. In the first years after my placements I was so busy drinking and "enjoying" college that I didn't write as often. In the beginning I had thought I wouldn't want to maintain contact and so I tried to abide by that even though I still wanted it. How much I feel able to handle waxes and wanes as the years go by but I suspect Jane would describe me much as you've just described your son's birthmom. How often she writes in no way indicates how conflicted/hurt she may be. And she may not be, she may be going about her life without a thought to your son at all I'm just saying I wouldn't make that assumption based on what you've stated.

And I don't think the pp are trying to be disrespectful or hurtful either. That's sort of the point. People don't mean to be disresptful but that doesn't make the fact that they are being disrepectful any different.

Oh and someone mentioned conselling and how everyone suggests it for the birthmom. No one ever suggested counselling for me. I had counselling while I was pg and workshops etc but then I had the baby and once I signed those papers I was on my own. No one suggested counselling, no one followed up to see how I was doing. Nothing.

[wasabi]

And to clarify I am not the only one who feels this way. I thought I was for a long time. I thought I was the only one still missing my child years later but in fact recently I found birthmother blogs online and these women are also hurting. Do I have any idea how many there are or what percentage there are? Of course not but our feelings are valid too. And the thing that really gets me when people toss off remarks about how it's "only 9 months in someone's womb" is how long did it take for you to become a mother to your adopted child? Was it a week after your placement? Was it immediately? How long would it have taken for you to stop hurting and stop thinking of that child if you were allowed to have custody for 9 months and then someone took the child away? I bet it would take a long time. I bet if someone then said to you "You only had him for 9 months what's the big deal? Who cares" you'd find it pretty disrespectful and upsetting.

[Emilie]

My oh my.
I will be thinking on the above posts.
It is apparent to me that the adoptive forum here is not a safe place for adoptees or birth mothers really.
the lack of understanding and compassion is incredible.
Wow.
Emilie

[moonbeem]

you're right em, we need our own sub forum...

[Emilie]

BTW. I have been told by my birth mother that the only reason she did not abort me was because she did not have the money and it was too late by the time she found out she was pg.

That does not change the fact that I want to know her and I am ADOPTED.
Just because she may not have felt the way YOU would feel if you gave up a child means little to the said child and does not mean that child will not want for that bio mom.
really. All these classes we all are talking about adoptive moms taking and how far it has come is really mind boggling to me the lack of understanding I am hearing here.

I am not mad. I am appreciative of the honesty in your posts.
I hope you are appreciative of mine. I hope to continue learning from each other here and may my truth shed some light on some adopttees experience and feelings.

Just because an adoption is "open" does not mean the child will not have feelings about it. And wow- how it would feel to have your bmom have the choice to hear from you and not want to for a child. WOW. That is so sad and hard.
Maybe it is TOO HARD for the bio mom and she can not bear the pain when she is contacted seeing what she gave up? I would think it would be very painful to see pictures of the child etc along with joyous of seeing the child to. And if they have no support to deal with the emotions I can see them turning to not keeping up communications and wanting to make it "go away".


Emilie

[sesa70]

Originally Posted by wasabi

I have to tell you that your post is very offensive to me. I'm reading it and hearing "what does the birthmother matter?! She could not be less important! She carried the baby for 9 months but so what? Big freaking deal!" That feels so incredibly dismissive of her role and importance. She gave you that baby how can she not matter?!

I am very sorry my post came across as disrespectful of the birth mothers importance. I was not making my comments from an adoptive mothers perspecitve, but that of an adopted adult. I see this two very different ways.

From my adult adoptee perspective, I hate to say it but yes, I do feel like *MY* birthmother could not be less important. TO ME she does not matter and never really did. The 9 months I spent in her womb were/are meaningless to me, as were the first many months she 'tried' to care for me. IMO she had no role or part in my life or my future.

Now from an adoptive mothers perspective, that is quite different. We always want the best for our children, and that is no different when it comes to birth moms. I am so thankful every day that I look at my beautiful girl that her birth mother chose to carry her and birth her. I want to quote you again when you said
"she gave you that baby how could she not matter?" That is exactly how I feel. She matters very much to me. I will never know her but I still thank her. I wish her the best and hope she has peace. I often wish that somehow she could see the child she gave up and know how much she is loved and know that she is welcome to be a part of her life if she should ever choose to be. But I will never have the opportunity to have that unspoken converstation with her and it is hard.

So I suppose what I am saying is that I can see things from both an adoptive mothers perspective and an adult adoptee's perspective, which often do conflict with eachother

[Laurel]

Wow, this is tough. Lots of emotion and honest feelings being expressed. Please let's not give up on continuing the dialogue--I'm learning a lot from all the differing points of view.

Buddhamom, I could relate to your post a little bit as their are a few similarities to your situation and that of my dd's birthmom. It's a situation where on the surface, knowing only the barest details, it could be perceived that she didn't care that much. But I know better. I am lucky in that I did get to be at the hospital and interact with her and see that she did very much love her baby...it's just that certain life circumstances affected her in so many ways. There was drug addiction. I strongly suspect that she placed dd knowing she would be removed...she had already lost custody of two older children. She initially didn't want to see or hold her or meet us, or even view our profile, or anything, but luckily good counselors at the agency convinced her otherwise. She has dropped all contact, but I don't take that as a sign that she doesn't care. I think maybe it just hurts too much, or her other problems have stolen from her her ability to reach out. I guess what I'm suggesting is to look between the lines and find the potential positive reasons for your dd's birthmom doing the things she did. I think I can easily help dd form a very positive picture of her. It is hard to see that your child has been hurt or potentially hurt by the actions of another...I think the mama bear instinct kicks in really hard for adoptive moms too. I was pretty angry when I first found out about the prenatal drug use. But even at that time I also felt a great deal of compassion for her, wondering what hard things had happened in her life that led her to drugs, and how much pain she must feel that drugs have taken so much from her life and cause her to lose so many other things.

[Emilie]

I edited my post above.

[hhurd]

Now wait a minute. Who here is lacking compassion and understanding? We're all telling our *own* stories. I have been very careful to only say what is true for me and my family and never once have I implied that my truth is ANYONE else's. And as a adoptive mom who was adopted as a child, I do have something to add here.

And Wasabi, I'm not making any assumptions about my son's birthmom, but when she tells me she's happy and at peace with her decison, I trust and believe her, because I respect her enough to do so. If she feels differently and chooses not to share that with us, that's her choice. I don't "own" nor am I responsible for the feelings she keeps secret from us.