Oak Meadow/Advanced learner question

[annettemarie]

I might repost this in the gifted forum, I'm not sure.

We're seriously considering bringing Michael home next year. DH wants to hold off til midsummer to make a decision, though, so we can see if we can all peacefully coexist with him at home . Which gives me a lot of time to think of curriculum (and yeah, we're definitely a curriculum kind of family! )

My first thought was, oh, I need to find a super-challenging curriculum for him so he stays busy. I was thinking maybe Sonlight (when he was tested last June he was reading and comprehending on a 16 1/2 year old level; he'll be 8 in a week).

My second thought was, oh, I need to find something where he's self-directed most of the time, preferably something with lots of reading. He seems to do better this way.

And I love, love, love Waldorf-inspired stuff and was looking at Oak Meadow, but at first glance, I thought, "Oh, he's way beyond this."

But then I had a third thought, , which was, "So what. Just because he has a high IQ doesn't mean he has to be in a rat race all the time. And if he has an everyday curriculum that he can sort of get through easily, that just frees him up for more self-directed learning." Of course, my fear there is that "self-directed learning" will turn into "bug the crap out of mama, sister, brother, and new baby while they're trying to get through their day."

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I really need some thoughts here.

The other plus is that Oak Meadow isn't prohibitively expensive. Enki and Live Ed interest me, but we just can't afford it. I do think we're going to get Noble Knights of Knowledge for math, and we've been using A Reason for Handwriting because it's such a gentle way to work religious ed into the day. I'm not sure if we'll do A Reason for Spelling or not.

Oh, and if it makes a difference, next year at home I'll have
Michael, age 8/3rd grade
Katie Grace, age 6/1st grade
Nicholas, age 4/I'd like to make sure to carve out some Mama/Nicky time for him
Babymort, who will be about 5 months old.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

[HikeYosemite]

I've used OM with other things for years, but I'm not sure you'd be happy with it for a gifted child, esp. at the same age/grade level. Look at the sample lessons at the OM site. I know this wouldn't go with the Waldorf philosophy, but you could see whether the stuff for older grades might suit your child. We are happy with the world history curriculum for my 6th grader.

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I might repost this in the gifted forum, I'm not sure.

We're seriously considering bringing Michael home next year. DH wants to hold off til midsummer to make a decision, though, so we can see if we can all peacefully coexist with him at home . Which gives me a lot of time to think of curriculum (and yeah, we're definitely a curriculum kind of family! )

My first thought was, oh, I need to find a super-challenging curriculum for him so he stays busy. I was thinking maybe Sonlight (when he was tested last June he was reading and comprehending on a 16 1/2 year old level; he'll be 8 in a week).

My second thought was, oh, I need to find something where he's self-directed most of the time, preferably something with lots of reading. He seems to do better this way.

And I love, love, love Waldorf-inspired stuff and was looking at Oak Meadow, but at first glance, I thought, "Oh, he's way beyond this."

But then I had a third thought, , which was, "So what. Just because he has a high IQ doesn't mean he has to be in a rat race all the time. And if he has an everyday curriculum that he can sort of get through easily, that just frees him up for more self-directed learning." Of course, my fear there is that "self-directed learning" will turn into "bug the crap out of mama, sister, brother, and new baby while they're trying to get through their day."

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I really need some thoughts here.

The other plus is that Oak Meadow isn't prohibitively expensive. Enki and Live Ed interest me, but we just can't afford it. I do think we're going to get Noble Knights of Knowledge for math, and we've been using A Reason for Handwriting because it's such a gentle way to work religious ed into the day. I'm not sure if we'll do A Reason for Spelling or not.

Oh, and if it makes a difference, next year at home I'll have
Michael, age 8/3rd grade
Katie Grace, age 6/1st grade
Nicholas, age 4/I'd like to make sure to carve out some Mama/Nicky time for him
Babymort, who will be about 5 months old.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

[annettemarie]

Do you know if it's possible to get the 3rd grade math and an upper grade for the rest? Because he is definitely right on track with math. Then again, if I get Noble Knights, it won't matter. That's definitely something to think about!

[Rivka5]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

And I love, love, love Waldorf-inspired stuff and was looking at Oak Meadow, but at first glance, I thought, "Oh, he's way beyond this."

But then I had a third thought, , which was, "So what. Just because he has a high IQ doesn't mean he has to be in a rat race all the time. And if he has an everyday curriculum that he can sort of get through easily, that just frees him up for more self-directed learning."

Is his personality such that it *would* be easy for him to sit down and complete a bunch of simple work every day? Would he enjoy zipping through worksheets that don't pose much of a challenge? Or would he complain, resist, goof off?

I don't think that providing a gifted child with challenging work means that you are putting him into a rat race. I think it's just being respectful of his time and interests.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by Rivka5

Is his personality such that it *would* be easy for him to sit down and complete a bunch of simple work every day? Would he enjoy zipping through worksheets that don't pose much of a challenge? Or would he complain, resist, goof off?

I don't think that providing a gifted child with challenging work means that you are putting him into a rat race. I think it's just being respectful of his time and interests.

Oak Meadow definitely isn't worksheets. And he enjoys reading all sorts of things--both things that are at a typical second-grade level and things that are beyond. It's not so much that I'm concerned that he won't be challenged as I am that he'll be able to complete the typical course of study much more quickly than the curriculum expects, if that makes sense.

[HikeYosemite]

I think that through 3rd grade, OM math is part of the curriculum. We supplemented with Miquon and then Singapore math because I didn't want to write out all my own math problems for my children. (Once they got beyond manipulatives and mental math into written math, the OM of 5 years ago had parents write out problems to do each week.)

In 4th grade and beyond, I believe, OM math is purchased separately. Look at the OM site. They do have a sale (20% off or so) in the spring, and you can sometimes find used OM on Ebay and through the following sites:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldor...ulum-supplies/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OM_HS/
http://www.homeschoolclassifieds.com/

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Do you know if it's possible to get the 3rd grade math and an upper grade for the rest? Because he is definitely right on track with math. Then again, if I get Noble Knights, it won't matter. That's definitely something to think about!

[Roar]

Originally Posted by Rivka5

I don't think that providing a gifted child with challenging work means that you are putting him into a rat race. I think it's just being respectful of his time and interests.

Yes, exactly. Every kid should have a right to learn what they are ready and interested in learning. It would seem really crazy if someone said I'm going to give a child who reads on the third grade level nothing but preschool books so as to make them slow down and enjoy life. I see this as the same thing.

[Jungle Mama]

You might like My Father's World. I've read some reviews saying it was too advanced for some, but can be adjusted to different levels. Math is adjustable, too. www.mfwbooks.com

[zeldamomma]

Have you considered Charlotte Mason? It's a nice blend of lots of reading and nature studies.

Ambleside online has a free curriculum.

Good luck!

ZM

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by Roar

Yes, exactly. Every kid should have a right to learn what they are ready and interested in learning. It would seem really crazy if someone said I'm going to give a child who reads on the third grade level nothing but preschool books so as to make them slow down and enjoy life. I see this as the same thing.

Well, I'm not saying I'm going to chain him up in the basement with nothing but a copy of Cat in the Hat. It's more a question of (a) grade-level curriculum with lots of extra time and materials for independent exploration or (b) advanced curriculum with lots of built-in challenges and activities. And it's also a question of whether or not he can, with his temperament, handle independent activities or if it would be better for all concerned if he had something laid out for him.

I'll check out My Father's World, but we aren't really looking for an overtly religious curriculum. I've looked at Ambleside before, but I'll check it out again.

Thanks, all!

[annettemarie]

One more thing--one of the reasons we're bringing him home is because we want him to be able to "slow down and enjoy life." He wants that, too. It's nothing that's being forced on him; we're just recognizing that one of the things he dislikes in the school environment is the lack of unstructured time so he can explore things on his own. We're just looking for the best way to meet this need.

[FreeRangeMama]

I understand what you mean, my ds will be 6 soon and we are pulling him out after this year. He doesn't NEED help in the learning department, he is happily learning on his own at a much higher level than he even lets on to his teachers at school, and he is working well beyond the resources they have for him. I am anxious to get him out of the school environment so he can focus on becoming a much more well-rounded learner, to incorporate ALL his senses in a way that isn't possible in a school environment. If we just pushed the academics he would likely excel far beyond where he is now, but he has his WHOLE LIFE to learn everything he wants to know. He only has his childhood to be a child.

So far the plan is to work with the Enki 1st grade materials. Enki fits better with our Buddhist beliefs than Oak Meadows (which we were considering) and we get funding for curriculum so we are lucky I figure he is beyond the actual academics really, but we can approach it in a much more "real" and wholesome way than he could ever get in a strictly book learning approach. Then we can just do what we already do for the "extras", like provide him with lots of books, relevant outings, and whatever extra curriculars he is interested in. He will still follow his interests and there really is no stopping his love of learning. But this way I can focus on the areas he neglects and he can continue pursuing what he loves.

The biggest thing for me is that he will have so much more time to foster his imagination and creativity. All the intelligence in the world won't get you far without the ability to funnel those smarts into something. There is a whole person to work with, not just his "giftedness".

That is my rant on the subject Good luck with whatever you decide!

[white_feather]

Annettemarie -
I totally hear you. I think my son is fairly gifted as well, but we made a conscious decision to do Oak Meadow 1 (age 6) to expand his creative horizons. My son is a very linear, logical thinker. And what OM has given us this year is a child who has expanded beyond his linear logical academic thinking, and become much more creative and experiential in the world. The whole family has noticed, and I really am glad we've gone this direction. I think it's been a real gift for him.

That said, the OM math at HIS grade level is simply not enough. And the science, frankly, is so boring that I can't even stand it anymore. This may be different by 3rd grade, so take my opinion accordingly. Next year, I'm considering some cross between standard maths (ie. Singapore) and some more academic science curricula, but may very well stick with OM for language arts/social studies.

In other words, I totally 'get' your thoughts behind allowing your son to slow down a bit and just be a kid. I think that new and important doors are likely to open that way! And OM, just like any curriculum, can be altered and supplemented with to make it fit with the needs of your own child.

Incidently, we do have the Noble Knights, and it's really neat. I'm going to try to present new concepts with the noble knights, and work through them more with Singapore. That's a total experiment . . . we'll see how it goes!

[HikeYosemite]

The OM 3rd grade science is also pretty minimal. We supplement with local nature programs, picture books about science, nature activities and lap booking on our own, experiments. Two of the things we like best in OM for the lower grades, in addition to its gentle approach and tone, were the creative math stories and the poetry chosen for circle time and memorization. We have had a lot of fun with the poems and verses. Live Ed. (we bought a used copy; unfortunately it had many typos) also had some very nice poetry selections by Christine Rosetti and others. When my son was seven, he memorized a beautiful poem, "Silver," by Walter de la Mare.

Originally Posted by white_feather

Annettemarie -
That said, the OM math at HIS grade level is simply not enough. And the science, frankly, is so boring that I can't even stand it anymore. This may be different by 3rd grade, so take my opinion accordingly. Next year, I'm considering some cross between standard maths (ie. Singapore) and some more academic science curricula, but may very well stick with OM for language arts/social studies.

In other words, I totally 'get' your thoughts behind allowing your son to slow down a bit and just be a kid. I think that new and important doors are likely to open that way! And OM, just like any curriculum, can be altered and supplemented with to make it fit with the needs of your own child.

Incidently, we do have the Noble Knights, and it's really neat. I'm going to try to present new concepts with the noble knights, and work through them more with Singapore. That's a total experiment . . . we'll see how it goes!

[2tadpoles]

I used OM for almost a year with my kids, back when they were 11 and 7.

Neither of them liked it. As a kid, I would have loved it. But my boys aren't into constant projects, and that is what OM centers itself around.

My friends kept telling me to tailor the curricula to the kids, but I wound up cutting so much of it out that there was no point in using the curricula.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by 2tadpoles

My friends kept telling me to tailor the curricula to the kids, but I wound up cutting so much of it out that there was no point in using the curricula.

That's my big fear.

I really do appreciate all the thoughts on this (even when it appears we're coming from differing educational philosophies!) and I'm letting it all soak in right now.

I mentioned it on my thread in the gifted forum but not here, I asked him what he would prefer, and he said he wanted challenging daily work. He's also very excited about the prospect of helping plan his own year next year. My husband accused me of stacking the deck in bringing him home but I think if both Michael and I are committed enough to making it work, it will work.

[Cassiopeia]

I was wondering what would be left if you cut the math and science. Letter stories and social studies? Doesn't seem like you'd need to spend $165 on that!

Anyway, interested to see what you decide...

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by Cassiopeia

I was wondering what would be left if you cut the math and science. Letter stories and social studies? Doesn't seem like you'd need to spend $165 on that!

Anyway, interested to see what you decide...

Very good point.

[HikeYosemite]

Rebecca Rupp has a resourceful book on planning your own curriculum; you might find it in the library and see whether your self-motivated child would prefer that.

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I mentioned it on my thread in the gifted forum but not here, I asked him what he would prefer, and he said he wanted challenging daily work. He's also very excited about the prospect of helping plan his own year next year. My husband accused me of stacking the deck in bringing him home but I think if both Michael and I are committed enough to making it work, it will work.

[teastaigh]

I have one very bright child and one stunning genius child. I'm typing that and not liking labels, but it's the truth and the way a school system would see them. Anyway, Oak Meadow has served us very well. It has preserved the soul and fun and life in our homeschooling. We supplement. We augment. Our homeschooling is largely classical and Charlotte Mason and intense. It's also fun. For that, I thank Oak Meadow. As each year goes by, I'm more and more happy that I've kept purchasing this. It helps us to be well-rounded. It helps us to grow our souls and spirits and enjoy each season and each day. We're an extremely intellectual and also analytical family. Oak Meadow puts us on the renaissance path.

peace,
teastaigh