sad about skinny

[teastaigh]

Our 12-yr-old friend was over last night for dinner. I smiled to
myself as she chose the seat across from the mirror where she
could admire her own pretty face and hair during the meal and
she her good self while she talked. It reminded me of my sisters
and I at the same age and for some years afterwards.

My little, sunny cloud burst when her mom told me that she
cries about her middle being thickish and how upset this girl
is about not being skinny like the models and actresses she
sees on TV.

The whole Spain modeling thing -- where they insisted that
the models have no less than a thin 18 or 19 BMI or something --
and the negative world-wide modeling and showbiz reaction to
it has really got me thinking.

Anyway, I picked my worst thin-is-in and models-are-death-on-a-
stick catalog -- Anthropologie -- and wrote to them today to
say not to send me their catalog anymore because the models
are too painfully thin and unhealthy. It's not much, just a little
thing. I think J Crew is next.

Would you order from a catalog if the models in it were wearing
size 8 or 10?

More and more, I see very young girls just obsessed with weight
and even making jokes about purging at various dinner parties
and church functions. What can we do to stop this and to
perpetuate a more healthy idea of beautiful?

peace,
teastaigh

[terrordactyl]

i agree this world needs models in every size it would be nice if in a catalog or magazine there were models of all sizes not just super skinny or a size 8 but models from a size 2 to a size 14 . maybe one day this will happen.

[dylan]

Oh Thank you! It's an epidemic...and it seems the only girls that are being taught about media awareness, genetics, the science of dieting (that it doesn't work) are the heavier girls, or those with diagnosed eating disorders...there's not a lot out there to educate and prevent.

However, Kathy Kater has written a GREAT book, "Real Kids Come in all Sizes" that has facts and is presented in a way for parents to educate their own kids. I learned a LOT...but as my "heavier that average" daughter pointed out - "It isn't ME that needs to learn this stuff...it's those thin girls at school that tease me!"

Kathy Kater also has a curriculum she has developed for classes and schools for 4th-6th graders, but it can be adapted. It's called "How to Love your Body and Eat Too!" And it's basically the same as the book, but made for teachers and classes. Maybe buying one ($60 I think?) for your, or your friends' school and encourage them to integrate the material? It covers many subjects including humanties, science/biology, current events, media/culture....I highly recommend either the book or curriculum.

[2tadpoles]

Originally Posted by Shaina

i agree this world needs models in every size it would be nice if in a catalog or magazine there were models of all sizes not just super skinny or a size 8 but models from a size 2 to a size 14.

:

I understand not enjoying the death-on-a-stick look, as it grosses me out, too. But at the same time, I get tired of people saying that a size 2 or 4 is "unhealthy." If you're 5'10" and a size 2, then yes, you're probably disgustingly thin. Right now I'm a size 4, and at 5'2" (and somewhat small framed) I'm feeling a bit pudgy and could stand to lose 5 lbs.

Yes, I would shop from a catalog where models were wearing sizes 8-10, but only if they carried items in my size, which almost never happens. Most of the catalogs I have ever browsed through list a size small as 4-6, which is too big (and usually too long) for me. If I were wearing a size 8, I'd be overweight for my height.

I'll probably be shopping in the junior section until I'm an old lady.

[tri31]

Hi, I just wanted to gently suggest that everyone has there own natural shape. My daughter is slender and petite. She is very self conscience because her friends call her skinny. Being singled out because of your body size (whatever it may be) is very painful. Let us just aspire to be healthy.

Namaste.

[adamsfam07]

I remember thinking I as fat when I was younger, and I was a size 7. I only ate lunch in high school a few times and always exercised because I wanted to look like the women on tv or in magazines. Now after 3 kids, what I wouldn't give to be a size 7 again! My sister is 14 yrs old now and I remember when she was 5 she made a comment about eatting only fat free ice cream because she didn't want to be fat! : It's so sad that children younger and younger are already worried about their weight, and it's even sadder that the media just continues to put pressure on society to live up to what they deem as "pretty" or "thin'. You would think with all the eatting disorders that they would start showing average sized women in magazines and on tv, hopefully someday soon.

[MomOBrien]

I wish I knew what to do to help stop this.The book suggestion for the classroom sounds like a good idea, I might just check that out. I have three girls and my oldest has struggled with an eating disorder for about three years. She is about 5'2 and might weigh one hundred pounds- maybe just under. It is so hard to watch her go through this. Just when you think they are doing well, something happens and they go back. She is into ballet and loves Americas next top model.
I also have a six year old who is a little pudgy and cute as a button, but lately when I help her in and out of the bathtub I noticed that she is either sucking in her tummy or covering it with her hands. She has said that she thinks she is fat. It makes me so sad because she is so young and she should'nt even be thinking about her size.

[teastaigh]

Obviously someone who is petit wouldn't be necessarily be healthy at a size 8 or 10, though they could be based upon their bones, muscle-makeup, etc.

When I said catalog model, I meant that. The typical catalog model is shorter than the typical runway model. She is 5'7" to 5'9", but not taller, usually. She is typically a size 2-4, now. Twenty years ago, this was not the case. I was a
size 6 catalog model during college.

I didn't mean to be contentious. I was just saying that it made me sad that my young friend is so focused on an unrealistic and unhealthy standard and that so much of her esteem and how she sees herself is tied up in this.

I see parents, very, very good parents, unintentionally sending negative messages all the time to their daughters about weight. One tough source is the mom who is focused on her own figure and appearance. Girls pick up on looks being paramount from that.

I like the education idea. We just completed a nutrition unit study at home as part of my son's fourth-grade homeschooling curriculum. My littler son had a cooking and game class that taught about being active and nutrition. He learned how to fix healthy snacks and taught me some new recipes. The nutrition unit with my older son really got him thinking. He's staying away from his beloved Swiss Miss cocoa after seeing what's in that stuff. He's actually getting more fat and calories from homemade cocoa, but it's healthier.

Somehow I just want to see girls and women of all ages not so hung up on their looks. It's good to take care of ourselves and our bodies, but it can't be the be-all, end-all. Weight can't be some magical pivot on which happiness and self-acceptance rests. It makes me sad because this negative, unhealthy focus is robbing the joy and strength that we have. I'm going to see my young friend tomorrow. She's smart and spunky and irreverant and loves animals. She's also just a good kid. That's what I wish she were seeing in the mirror -- not her healthy, nonstick middle.

peace,
teastaigh

[Cruella_DeVille]

my daughter is 12 going on 13 this month and over the last couple of years she's mentioned her weight or parts of her body being chubby. She isn't. I know I've contributed to this because of my own long rooted issues however, I'm trying to change, stiffle my own mouth when something lame comes out of it ... like calling myself chubby when in reality I'm okay.

I've done my best to quash any negativity from her about her body ... and I've been my own worst enemy in this endeavor because of my own distorted image.

My daughter has only marginally mentioned this or that thin model or actress and I don't buy any catalogues or fashion magazines (because I'm just not interested) so in that respect she hasn't had that much exposure. This means that I can really only blame my big mouth for her troubles. I've learned to be very conscious of my trap and now when she starts to complain about herself we talk about what we can do together and the key to being healthy and how different people are shaped because of genetics and such ... how bone structure and height play into the amount of weight on a body. She also knows that I've had problems in the past with my body image as well although I never went into great detail - just enough to let her know that my thinking was (and sometimes still is) skewed.

Just recently, she has become my gym buddy. We're working out together which is great because it's mom/daughter time only and I hope it's instilling the idea of a strong healthy body.

[vancouverlori]

I'm glad this came up. I've been thinking about this stuff with Emily who is 12. Yesterday she was sitting on my lap (I was "hogging" the computer) and I noticed that she seemed to really be squashing me. So we all went down and weighed ourselves on the scale we keep in the basement. She weighs more than me. And I'm 3 or 4 inches taller and not skinny! I'm 5'7", 142lbs ish, and she's 5'3" and 147lbs. Now she's a fairly active girl (basketball and walking to and from the bus) so the difference is probably partly lean muscle and she has a big bone structure, but I've noticed her getting chubbier over the last year. She's had her period for 2 years now, so she's not likely to grow much taller. She eats a fair bit of junk, and tends to eat more refined carbs than I think would be good for her. Her aunt and grandma on her dad's side are petite asian ladies, but we run tall and big-boned on my side.

I think I'm mostly concerned about her long-term health, but I don't want to instill any negativity about her weight per se. I guess I'm also worried because her weight is mostly in her hips which could indicate excess estrogen, which is likely in girls who reach menarche so early. She also has terrible cramps where she actually misses some of her activities because she's just in too much pain.

Anyway, I'm a little worried about her eating habits and her hormonal status, but I'm not sure what is the right approach to take, or even if I should worry about this at this point. I just think it's so much easier to avoid gaining weight (by eating healthier rather than less, and exercising more) than it is to lose weight. Kind of like smoking... Am I nuts?
-Lori

[sevenkids]

It's amazing the difference in culture and body image. My DD's (24, 15, and 11) are soooo worried about being too thin. My 15 y/o was so excited when she managed to go from a size 00 to a size 2. She's very fine-boned and athletic, even at 00 she didn't look skinny, just slim and toned.
She's surrounded by slim girls trying to gain weight, and the heavier girls are seen as having the ideal body type; thick thighs, big booties, a little belly roll. There's actually a black market thing going on to sell slim girls "chicken pills" (growth hormone they mix into chicken feed) to make them gain weight. Even my 11 y/o, who lives with me in Miami, thinks she's not "thick" enough, she's so worried her butt won't get bigger. Imagine trying to convince your daughter she is fat enough?
Either way, all this worry about size and weight in a perfectly healthy girl is so sad.

[talk de jour]

Originally Posted by vancouverlori

I'm glad this came up. I've been thinking about this stuff with Emily who is 12. Yesterday she was sitting on my lap (I was "hogging" the computer) and I noticed that she seemed to really be squashing me. So we all went down and weighed ourselves on the scale we keep in the basement. She weighs more than me. And I'm 3 or 4 inches taller and not skinny! I'm 5'7", 142lbs ish, and she's 5'3" and 147lbs. Now she's a fairly active girl (basketball and walking to and from the bus) so the difference is probably partly lean muscle and she has a big bone structure, but I've noticed her getting chubbier over the last year. She's had her period for 2 years now, so she's not likely to grow much taller. She eats a fair bit of junk, and tends to eat more refined carbs than I think would be good for her. Her aunt and grandma on her dad's side are petite asian ladies, but we run tall and big-boned on my side.

I think I'm mostly concerned about her long-term health, but I don't want to instill any negativity about her weight per se. I guess I'm also worried because her weight is mostly in her hips which could indicate excess estrogen, which is likely in girls who reach menarche so early. She also has terrible cramps where she actually misses some of her activities because she's just in too much pain.

Anyway, I'm a little worried about her eating habits and her hormonal status, but I'm not sure what is the right approach to take, or even if I should worry about this at this point. I just think it's so much easier to avoid gaining weight (by eating healthier rather than less, and exercising more) than it is to lose weight. Kind of like smoking... Am I nuts?
-Lori

PLEASE... do not say anything. You could seriously, honestly, affect her negatively for life.

[crazydiamond]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

PLEASE... do not say anything. You could seriously, honestly, affect her negatively for life.

It's such a tough decision because I'll tell ya as that very same girl, my mom's decision NOT to say anything has affected me negatively for life.

I have PCOS. It's a hormonal disorder that has plagued me since I've been about 10 years old and I wish, oh how I wish, that my mom hadn't embraced quite so much the "health at every shape" mentality. I don't wish that she had put me on a diet, but a little investigation and some medical intervention could have saved me a lifetime of diabetes and infertility. I wish that she'd have looked at me and said "ya know, she's very heavy and in an active 12 year old, that's just NOT NORMAL."

Instead, she kept quiet and preached the "you're just fine at that size" mantra. . .all while my insulin resistance hit an all time high, my blood pressure was high, and I was morbidly obese. And the silly thing is, I KNEW something was wrong. But in an effort to "save me" she pushed too far in the opposite direction. It wasn't "not saying anything" that I needed most, it WAS saying something. . an acknowledgment that somethings not right and the resolve to discover what it was. Ignoring it did more bad than anything.

It wasn't until my adult life did I get diagnosed, get medication, and start a proper diet. I am still obese but at least this time I KNOW that I am, in actuality, on the road to being healthy.

Just my experience from the other side. . .

[talk de jour]

IMO it's a bit different to say "hey, maybe we ought to get you tested for PCOS since your periods are so terrible" than it is to say "You are getting a little fat, maybe you should start eating more veggies."

[talk de jour]

Not to mention that the PP's dd is not morbidly obese.

[MillingNome]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

PLEASE... do not say anything. You could seriously, honestly, affect her negatively for life.

I sort of agree with that and sort of don't. Maybe what you could do, very carefully, is to ask some questions. If she does have something like PCOS, you could just ask her how her periods are. If you're going to do anything, try focusing on healthy eating without worrying about weight.

Kids get too messages telling them that their body size is too fat, too skinny, too tall, too short, too dark, too whatever. Whatever happened to judging people based on their actions?

[crazydiamond]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

Not to mention that the PP's dd is not morbidly obese.

Oh I am not morbidly obese and definitely wasn't that way when I was 12, either. I was just a bit chubby. BMI put me at "overweight" throughout all my teens. And I had to put the possibility of PCOS out there because 5'3" and 147lbs is overweight too. Maybe it's just diet and lack of exercise, maybe it's something more. Do you not think the girl at least deserves the opportunity for someone to stand up for her and see if there's a real medical problem?

But now at 26, I am obese and getting my insulin under control 15 years older would have saved me a lot of heartache. In fact, it would have saved me from developing an eating disorder because then I would have KNOWN it's not my fault I gain weight despite hardly eating anything.

I never ONCE said that the mother needs to address in in a completely rude and inhumane manner. What I WAS trying to say is that always accepting things blindly isn't healthy, either. There needs to be some balance. But with education, support, and a delicate approach, I feel that it can be a win-win situation for all involved.

[crazydiamond]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

IMO it's a bit different to say "hey, maybe we ought to get you tested for PCOS since your periods are so terrible" than it is to say "You are getting a little fat, maybe you should start eating more veggies."

Another big misconception. My periods always were exactly like clockwork. PCOS isn't about missed periods, it's about a metabolic disorder. Focusing just on menstrual cycles, instead of glucose metabolism, does even more of a disservice. There is no "test" for PCOS, either. It's a syndrome with a common collection of symptoms that girls may or may not have. And the absolute biggest clue is weight gain that is not in proportion with diet or exercise.

[teastaigh]

Originally Posted by vancouverlori

I'm glad this came up. I've been thinking about this stuff with Emily who is 12. ...
I think I'm mostly concerned about her long-term health, but I don't want to instill any negativity about her weight per se. I guess I'm also worried because her weight is mostly in her hips which could indicate excess estrogen, which is likely in girls who reach menarche so early. She also has terrible cramps where she actually misses some of her activities because she's just in too much pain.
-Lori

I would also be concerned. Has your daughter seen a physician about her cramps? Especially given her symptoms, it's not too early to try to establish a positive and open dialog with a health practioner about her health in general and her cramps, specifically. Have you considered taking her to a gyn who has a good manner with tween/teen patients?

I would definitely not mention the word weight at all. I've often noticed that when I'm worried about a family member a bit, it can often be helpful to watch my own behavior and try to model what I'm wanting to influence. Maybe you could go through the seed catalogs together and plant a garden this spring or sign up for a clogging class and see if she wants to join you or experiment with going vegan/vegetarian a few days a week for your own reasons or ... For me, I have very bad skin, so I often introduce more healthful eating patterns to try to counteract that. Behind the scenes, of course, I'm thinking about my children and my husband and knowing that between meal snacks of apples and carrots are better for them too.

I think we have a lot of opportunities to increase activity level in family life too. Most children really do want to be with their folks and be included in what they're doing. I've been pretty surprised that I usually have kiddos join in anytime I do an exercise video or do the back exercises the doctor gave me.

While I do think intervention and directly focusing efforts on a child is appropriate at times, I also think a gentle and easy approach is to first work on our selves.

I'm going to try to remember this as I often find myself upset this week over my childrens' squabbling. I'm now wondering how I'm affecting that ... hmm.

peace,
teastaigh

[vancouverlori]

Thank you all for your varying thoughts on this.

Emily isn't obese - so far she still looks quite healthy. In fact, I think she seems to still be hovering around a size 4 or 6, while I'm 10 to 12ish. I'm fairly certain that most of her weight "advantage" over me is muscle - I haven't got much of that since I had my 2nd and haven't had time for regular exercise.

I guess maybe what I'm doing mentally is responding to the changes in her body the same as I do to changes in mine. When I notice that I'm getting a little hippier and that my pants are getting too small, I start to cut out junk and try to eat a little better and get in a few evening dancing sessions. Is that weird or unhealthy behaviour? I don't think so, but I'm never sure. It's become such a loaded issue.

I'm starting to feel that some of the "beautiful at any size" is a bit of a "self-esteem trick" that doesn't really seem to work. Yes, you may be beautiful, but you can still be really uncomfortable and unhealthy and feel bad about it, no matter how much someone tells you. I have a friend who, at 6' tall, weighed nearly 400lbs. She finally tried Curves combined with healthier eating habits (after trying many other things) and has successfully lost over 100 lbs. She feels so much better - her knees don't hurt anymore - and she got herself a bike and now bikes all over the city. She has developed great confidence in her amazing muscular strength and has started trying things she never would have before - like the karate class she did last summer. And she was incredibly beautiful (she's often compared to a goddess) all that time anyway, and she knew it, but she still felt it necessary to lose weight.

My main reason for bringing up these thoughts is that at this point I'm just in a watchful waiting period - my flags are up, but I'm not concerned so much about the status quo as I am about the pattern I'm seeing. And I'm just not sure about how to approach the issue. I've seen my sister (also beautiful) struggle with her weight all these years and feel self-conscious about it, and I want to help Emily avoid it rather than dealing with it after the fact.

It would help if we had more communication and cooperation, but Emily is in a bit of a defiant/anti-adult phase these days. Not bad defiant, just never wants to do anything we want her to do, and mostly tries to ignore us and not talk to us as much as possible. : She won't join in on our "dancing sessions" (but me and DS have a jolly crazy time). And while I am tempted to see if I can get her to join me in going back to the gym or something - I think this would mostly result in more eyerolling.

anyhoodles, that's where my brain is at tonight,
-Lori