Unschooling a 12y/o

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

I am in need of some dire advice..my 12 y/o ds is not doing well in middle school. He's more or less given up and states that school is boring. I have an meeting with his teachers on tuesday and i'm letting them know about my choice to pull him out of school. My biggest concern at this point is what do we do when he is here at home. I have really considered unschooling but i need some support from others that have a 12y/o that is unschooling. I have seen mama's w/ much younger unschoolers...but no one with older children. What do we do all day. Is it to late to unschool him? I really dont want to get him on another schedule..like school..i dont want him to have assignments..etc..
any one know of where i can get more info or advice on this?
Thanks

[Itlbokay]

We are in a very similar situation. Reading Grace Llewellyn's Teenage Liberation Handbook has been helpful. I would also like to read her book Real Lives.

It's only been a few weeks for us. Letting Ds just do whatever has been very difficult for me - I feel as though I have been de-schooling, too. But I am starting to have an appreciation for unschooling, and the de-schooling process. He has started spending time on interests that before, due to a busy schooling schedule, he was only able to lightly touch on, if he had the time. I try to remind myself that we can do this. We "unschooled" for the first five years of his life (before school came along) we just didn't know there was a name for it.

Best of luck to you.

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

Thanks for the true hearted response..i'm feeling a bit nervous about all of this. I posted on a yahoo site also and wow did i get some harsh responses...i'm so new to this and i feel that i have to do something right away with my son and i want to do the right thing. I feel that this is a learning process for all of us and i it want it to go smoothly. I'm out to find that book right now..

[mamarhu]

DD is 11, and quite independent and mature. Unschooling for her looks sort of like this: (just an example of her activities, not really a day in the life)

We saw the movie, "The Queen" and DD asked several questions about the structure of British government; parliment, prime minister, and royalty, division of power, etc. I didn't have a clue (we live in the US), so she searched on the internet and later we went to the library. Now she is teaching me! This interest lasted a week or so, and she learned more than any 6th grade class would ever learn. Other subjects of interest have been ancient Egypt, anorexia nervosa, architecture, and I don't remember what all else.

She tends to have these intense interest-attacks every month or 2. Sometimes she writes out "reports" about the subject of her interest. But these are not meant for me to see, or anyone; I think it is that she likes to see information in a neat structured bundle. In the process of these projects, in addition to learning about the direct subject, she is honing her research skills, reading adult material, and I think subconsiously exploring career options.

Weeks might go by between projects, when little visible acedemic activity is seen. During these times, she watches a lot of TV, listens to music, cooks, and rearranges the furniture (don't ask). She is absolutely disinterested in any classes or activities offered to kids through the homeschool groups, recreation department, or anywhere else. She watches and discusses the news and current events from a very mature, insightful perspective. YoungSon, DD, and I love museums, so we go once or twice a week to somewhere interesting. I do not "teach" on these trips - I will answer their questions, or share my excitement over something that interests me, but they are free to absorb whatever they like from the atmosphere. I also have a home business, and DD helps with some facets now, more when the craft show season gets started again in March. I am thinking of having her keep the books for the business (with much supervision!). She also tends to have a craft project going most of the time, generally based on some sale at the fabric store or a thrift store find.

The Teenage Liberation Handbook is great, as is anything by John Holt. For me, the basis of this whole approach is trust - that DD will find or ask for what she needs. So far, so good!

[Dar]

I used to have a twelve year old who was unschooling... now I have a 14 year old who is unschooling. I actually know a lot of people who used to be 12 year old unschoolers, and they're all happy people, competently living the lives they have chosen for themselves.

For Rain that means many hours of dancing and reading, although she did take 3 months to learn some math and practice for the SAT late last year.

Dar

[reeseccup]

I have a nigh onto a 15 year old that we pulled for ps at the end of his 6th grade year. After some trial and error, we ended up DESCHOOLING him until he was ready to move forward. He's been self-led since then on his choices for education. I'll tell ya what, he's a much happier person now than he was then. Just recently he was thinking about going to high school part time so he could play football. He later decided that it wasn't worth it with all the effort he put into getting out of the system.

[UnschoolnMa]

We are unschoolers. My daughter is 13 and my son is 15.

Obviously I think it's great, but I know that it can be a scary step to take. Just remember to breathe and that it takes time to get used to anything new. Enjoy yourselves and do things that interest you. Reading, cooking, watching old movies, playing games, art, legos, etc.

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

How do you handle end of grade testing..I live in NC and they have EOG's...do you administer it to your child and help them with it if they dont know something? Or is their another type of testing you do with your children?

[Jenlaana]

We are in SC and have no testing whatsoever that is required by the association that we chose to go through. I think some of the other ones have some, but with us there is optional testing but nothing "required".

That being said, I have to say that the BEST advice I got when I took my son out of school at 11 yrs old was to deschool/detoxx. I took my son out in Feb and we did absolutely nothing for a couple of months. He was so busy hating school that he wasnt open to learning anything new. I let him do whatever I would let him do on the weekend (i.e. I wouldn't let him down a whole box of pop tarts, but I'd let him watch cartoons and play his gameboy) Little by little I started reintroducing educationally 'fun' things (educational video games on the internet, inviting him to snuggle up w/ me and watch something on the history channel about knights/castles/etc, trips to the library where he could take out 1 fiction book for every non fiction book, as long as he promised to read them all, art projects he picked out at walmart, "Summer Vacation" workbook - its puzzles etc based on grade level light educational stuff, etc) We ended up choosing a more structured homeschool than unschooling for this year, because w/ my son's ADHD he seems to thrive much better w/ structure in all areas of his life. Ideally, i wanted to just restrict his video gaming and let him go in any direction he chose for the rest, but it didnt work out so well for us. (video games are a problem for him as he could sit there all day every day for years lol and I wouldn't let him do that with or without school)

But... I would not have been able to get him to learn anything at all, or even watch the history channel with me, if he had not had that 2 month detox period to get the "school sucks" stuff out of his system.

[Momsteader]

Definitely a period of detox or deschooling! Just let him do whatever....like a loooooong weekend! Ask him what HE wants to do. What did he always want to do while he was in school and he couldn't? Go from there! It is a scary step, but your ds will be a happier person. CONGRATS mama!

[Dar]

Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie

How do you handle end of grade testing..I live in NC and they have EOG's...do you administer it to your child and help them with it if they dont know something? Or is their another type of testing you do with your children?

Here's a link to the laws in North Carolina. You would qualify under Part 2. Qualified Nonpublic Schools, because you wouldn't receive state funding. So, you only have to test in gardes 3, 6, 9, and 11. So, one thing you could do is just have your son skip those grades. Also, because you have to administer the test but not submit them to anyone, you could choose to have him take it and just consider it a game, and not worry about it. Also, since the only guidelines are that you have to choose a "nationally standardized test or other nationally standardized equivalent measure", you could pick something veryt short and easy. You state homeschool organization will be able to help you with this, but it seems definitely easy to get around, or the North Carolina Unschoolers group looks cool...

dar

[reeseccup]

Originally Posted by Dar

Here's a link to the laws in North Carolina. You would qualify under Part 2. Qualified Nonpublic Schools, because you wouldn't receive state funding. So, you only have to test in gardes 3, 6, 9, and 11. So, one thing you could do is just have your son skip those grades. Also, because you have to administer the test but not submit them to anyone, you could choose to have him take it and just consider it a game, and not worry about it. Also, since the only guidelines are that you have to choose a "nationally standardized test or other nationally standardized equivalent measure", you could pick something veryt short and easy.

dar

When we were in NC the law specified that we do an ANNUAL standardized test, and just keep the scores on record along with your annual records of days educated, in case you are "asked" to have a visit, which by the law, they can do (but this seems to be a rarity, in the almost 3 whole years of hsing in NC, not once did I get a request for a visit).

§ 115C‑557. Standardized testing requirements.

Each qualified nonpublic school shall administer, at least once in each school year, a nationally standardized test or other nationally standardized equivalent measurement selected by the chief administrative officer of such school, to all students enrolled or regularly attending grades three, six and nine. The nationally standardized test or other equivalent measurement selected must measure achievement in the areas of English grammar, reading, spelling and mathematics. Each school shall make and maintain records of the results achieved by its students. For one year after the testing, all records shall be made available, subject to G.S. 115C‑174.13, at the principal office of such school, at all reasonable times, for annual inspection by a duly authorized representative of the State of North Carolina. (1979, c. 506; 1981, c. 423, s. 1; 1987, c. 738, s. 180(c); 2004‑199, s. 30(c).)

Have a nationally standardized achievement test administered annually to each student. The test must involve the subject areas of English grammar, reading, spelling, and mathematics. Records of the test results must be retained at the school for at least one year and made available to DNPE when requested;

found on site http://www.ncdnpe.org/hhh103.htm

There isn't any law requiring you to have someone else test your child. We chose to do the CAT-5 since I can do it myself, send it in and have it machine scored so there is no real dispute. As for "helping with the test", no that would be unethical. There are booklets you can purchase that give you a guidline of what topics will be addressed on the tests and you can go over that information with your child.

I don't believe in teaching to the test, so I don't, if they get the answer right, they have done it on their own merit. It's very VERY difficult to get below the minimum rate.

[SRHS]

Another book I"d recommend is Marion Winik's "Rules for the Unruly" It is a great book.

Hang in there!!

HUGS, Sus

[Dar]

Originally Posted by reeseccup

When we were in NC the law specified that we do an ANNUAL standardized test.

Here is the relevant part of your quote:

Each qualified nonpublic school shall administer, at least once in each school year, a nationally standardized test or other nationally standardized equivalent measurement selected by the chief administrative officer of such school, to all students enrolled or regularly attending grades three, six and nine.

The test has to be given annually, but only to students in those grades. If your school has no students in those grades (the part about 11th grade is in the high school section).

I do see that the NC ed department website is saying annual testing for all students, but that's contradicted by the actual ed code. It sounds to me like the ed department is asking homeschoolers to do a lot more than is required by law, and that's really not okay. I would hope that some of the state homeschool groups are aware of that and dealing with it... the state has no legal right to ask for annual testing of *all* students, and complying with their request for more than they're legally entitled to sets a bad precedent.

Anyone up for some activism?

Oh, and what "minimum rate" were you referring to? There's nothing in ed code about a required score, either....?

Dar

[reeseccup]

Originally Posted by Dar

Here is the relevant part of your quote:



The test has to be given annually, but only to students in those grades. If your school has no students in those grades (the part about 11th grade is in the high school section).

I do see that the NC ed department website is saying annual testing for all students, but that's contradicted by the actual ed code. It sounds to me like the ed department is asking homeschoolers to do a lot more than is required by law, and that's really not okay. I would hope that some of the state homeschool groups are aware of that and dealing with it... the state has no legal right to ask for annual testing of *all* students, and complying with their request for more than they're legally entitled to sets a bad precedent.

Anyone up for some activism?

Oh, and what "minimum rate" were you referring to? There's nothing in ed code about a required score, either....?

Dar

I see what you’re saying, and I'm not sure if it's a matter of interpretation or what, I can see it meaning both ways. Irritating how they can't make laws say what they mean for them to say without dancing a jig to get there. kwim Get rid of all that blasted lawyer speak in laws and we'd all be able to come to the same conclusion, or not .

As for the minimum, I think I'm mixing my states now, here in VA it's 23%, I don't know what I was thinking.

[Ruthla]

I have a 10.5yo who's sort of unschooling, sort of having structured lessons. The only textbook we have is for Hebrew Language- she reads lots of books from the library and I try to steer her towards historical fiction, and non-fiction that "covers" science and history. This is in addition to her first love- fantasy books.

If she wasn't a voracious reader I'm sure she'd do just as much learning through normal life, though we'd probably make fewer trips to the library.

[Ruthla]

Oh, I forgot to add- I'm a member of a Yahoo group specifically geared towards unschoolers in my state (NY.) There might be one for North Carolina as well-it's certainly worth a look!

[UUMom]

I know you want to worry-- i am also a natural worrier. lol We are relaxed hsers.

If it makes you feel any better, I have a 14 yr old who spends most days reading and drawing. I try to read her lots of books as well. (Yes, I really read books to my 14 yr old. We love to cuddle up on the sofa together).

I would have given anything to have been able to spend my days as a 'middle-schooler' reading. It would have been heaven. My dd is relaxed, funny and not worried about all the other crappy stuff this age has to worry about. Last week alone she read 5 fat books on her own and read Bridge To Terabithia to her little sister. Plus, what I read to her. It's enough for now. She has times of wanting to do a million things, but winter is our hibernation time of sorts.

I would go with him to the library and gets piles of whatever books he wants to read (so what if he doesn't read them), and maybe a few great movies.

[folkypoet]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Oh, I forgot to add- I'm a member of a Yahoo group specifically geared towards unschoolers in my state (NY.) There might be one for North Carolina as well-it's certainly worth a look!

Yup, there is. Here ya go: http://www.ncunschoolers.com/

[Dar]

Yeah, I linked it in post 11... but never mind me... apparently everyone has me on ignore... ::sniff::

Dar