9 year-old boy with social issues

[boys2mom]

Hi mamas, I hope you can help me.

My ds' teacher stopped me at pick-up last week to say ds has social problems at school. not really connecting with other kids. Saying inappropriate things (asked teacher to pull his finger), not reading other's emotional cues (like taking being shoved as aggression instead of playing) and behaving inappropriately (passing gas and announcing it). She says he's never picked by others and spends a lot of time alone. She says he's awkward in conversations, ie, when discussing which is better, Quiznos or Subway, my guy says they are both unhealthy. She suggested arranging playdates and speaking to the school social worker about social groups. I did so much research on the internet, I was almost convinced he had asbergers. I'm fairly certain that's not the case, but he does share some of the traits (hard to say hello and goodbye, uncomfortable talking to adults).

I'm so upset, I'm up at night worrying over this. I arranged a playdate right away and it went fine. He's at afterschool and seems fine with kids there. Also at weekend martial arts classes. I think this all stemmed from a bullying incident last year that was handled badly by the principal. In a nutshell, his own friends ganged up on him with the class bully. I think he withdrew and I guess I did too. On top of that, a lot of the kids are kind of rough (ie, the cool kids) and ds is more of a gentle kid, and an emotional kid. Well, a good 8 or 9 months have passed and now, I feel so awkward talking to the other moms about arranging a playdate - even with moms I'm friendly with. I'm so afraid they'll say no. In fact when I called one 'friend' and invited her son over, I felt as if she blew me off. She said she'd check with her son and never called back. DS's teacher gave me a list of kids she thought ds would get along with, so I know I should go down the list, but it's so hard!

The other part of this is DS says he likes his space and sits off by himself to concentrate better, or in the lunchroom because the other table is too loud. He does sit with a small group of kids (teacher says they are not a good match for him) and usually plays with them. The kids he'd want to play with won't let him. Did you know there was a maximum of 7 kids allowed to play tag? So I fear he's withdrawing as a reaction to being hurt (or is that me?). So, anyway, I finally signed up for cable tv, so he could watch the shows his classmates watch (well, not all of them), and I've stepped up the talks on appropriate behavior and I'm ready to bite the bullet on initiating playdates. I praise him when he says good-bye nicely to his afterschool counselors and holds in his gas. Is there anything else you can suggest? I'm a wreck! I'm so afraid he will become more of a loner at school, have no one to invite for his birthday - he has another year and a half at this school and my heart breaks for him. I just want him to be happy. Sorry this is so long.

[PiePie]

i would take him for an eval to rule out a neurological cause like a mild case of asperger's. frankly i think it's hard for even the best parents to diagnose their own kid. my brother wasn't dx'd with aspergers until college, and i think some things would have (or rather should have) been done differently had we had that knowledge earlier. i think it's great that he connects with kids outside of school in the martial arts program. would you consider approaching that instructor for his take on your son's social interactions in that setting?

[PiePie]

it also seems like you have a bit of anxiety about your son's social interactions -- it would help to keep that separate from him as much as possible -- i think kids pick up on those sorts of things. rejection is not the end of the world, it's just a play date, there are more fish in the sea, it's their loss not yours...that's the sort of thing you might want to try to project

[boobybunny]

We are much in the same boat.

My oldest is about to turn 10. The school is very clique oriented. What has saved us, is soccer, wake boarding and snowboarding. He excels in these things. He plays on a team that IS NOT associated with his school... for a reason. He tends to have melt downs and behave in ways that would get him teased the next day at school. The wake boarding is something we do as a family, and he rocks, he is part of a local wake boarding club and team. The snow boarding, we have taken a few kids that he does seem to get along with to the mountain with us. Because he is very good at these things, they do give him some "Teflon" if you will against the other more hurtful events at school. He is able to say to himself that these boys can't score on a corner kick, or "superman" on the wake board, flip on the pipe, or any of the other "tricks" he can do. He is a hero, and the youngest on his wake boarding team, the older, "cooler" teen boys on his team have encouraged him to think out of the box when it comes to his classmates.


We have a Dx of ADD, and at times I wonder if Aspergers is going to be our next Dx. He is on meds, and they really do help. (he has friends now, he never did before)

His bio father is VERY socially awkward, and has esteem, power and control issues.

Not sure if what is working for us, will work for you, but finding something that he excels might help.

[kathymuggle]

First off - pretending to pass gas (or passing it) and commenting on it is normal and funny to 9 year old boys. I know, I have seen it repeatedly with my son!

I also think being shoved and mistaking it for agression, is common. It is so hard for them to know.

In some ways I think the teacher sounds like a bit of a fuddy-duddy (is that a word?)

I am glad he does have children to sit with at school (even if the teacher does not think they are appropriate) it is so hard to know how much of this is serious and how much is not!

Is he happy? Does he try to get out of going to school? Sleeping or eating issues? These would be clues to me that action needs to be taken - more than what the "teacher" says. Have you tried going to school at lunch time to see if he is playing with other kids, ect (a little mommy spying?)

I am glad he has other activities where he feel content - like the martial arts. You could ask him about the "social group " program - if he feels lacking in social skills he may want to go.

kathy

[chloeM]

My son is 10.5 and has asperger Diagnosed at 6. Same types of responses ,same type of no ninvolvement and practical aswers("neither are healthy", my son would give you the same response) We went to Childrens Hospital and was diagnosed within one hour. This has been a blessing, we found out through test that he is actually much smarter than the kids in his class, and bordering geneous. I homeschool and realized that I never want to fit ANY of my kids into a box. I do gluten free casein free with him . Me and the rest of the boys have celiac disease and caseine allergies so this seems like a possible cause(get him checked for allergies) I know how frustrating having a child with aspergers is ( obsessive routines and fears social problems and obsessive behavoir) But there are many blessing too!!

[teastaigh]

Is homeschooling an option at all?

I'm not trying to be strong here, just wondering.

I've never understood conformance unless it has to do with safety.

I feel worried that your child will receive messages that he isn't okay the way he is. This can be so harmful. Homeschooling frees us from all of that to actually be relishing in what we are, what we love, and what we can become.

Again, I'm not being judgemental.

peace,
teastaigh

[chloeM]

teastaigh- I feel the same way-thats why homeschooling is now the only option for us.

[laohaire]

I have absolutely no experience with asperger's. I just wanted to second a PP's suggestion to offer social situations with a variety of different kids (not necessarily a LOT of social situations... but make sure he's not just stuck with the same group forever and ever).

I was a very socially awkward kid due to severe hearing loss. I said the wrong things and did all the wrong stuff in an attempt to be accepted. I learned more over time. I went to 3 different schools between K and 12, and each time I changed it was a step forward for me, because I could get away from the kids who had already pigeonholed me, and I could try again fresh. The 2nd school I went to I did a little better, but not much. But high school was much, much better. Now I don't believe I have any problems fitting in with my adult peers. I'm not suggesting you switch schools often (or even at all, necessarily) but just as an example of how kids can change, but their peers can hold them back.

Again, I don't know anything about Asperger's, but the things you mentioned don't sound that serious to me. Probably your son is a little awkward, you would know, but I don't think it's a mistake to think shoving is agression, Subway vs. Quizno's with both being unhealthy is just a sign of his independent thinking (... and for the record, he's right ...), passing gas and thinking it's funny, as a PP said, is pretty normal for a 9 year old boy (I specifically remember several incidents in my 5th grade class involving flatulence and great glee from the boys). Now obviously the difference is that perhaps your son isn't doing those things in a way that are winning him the admiration of his peers. But some kids are less popular than others, and it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with them. I just hope you take it all with a grain of salt, is all.

[jempd]

My son is much younger so it may not be comparable, but he does also do some socially immature things like completely misinterpret other kids' cues. I came across a book recently you may find helpful--It's So Much Work to Be Your Friend by Richard Lavoie, that describes a lot of difficulties that sound like some of your son's. I know a book is not the answer, period, I just know it often helps me to sort out my thinking about something and this book does offer exercises and things that can be done with your kid to practice certain social skills. You don't have to have Asperger's to have some of these lags in social skills and I think it is a hard world out there, often, for kids, and it's a matter of mostly finding other kids you can connect with. But really learning certain skills, just like any skill set, takes attention and practice and sometimes just a bit of role-playing with your child can make a big difference.

[Satori]

My dd is the same way but she's 6. Our local mental health agency has groups for kids to learn social skills that dd loves going to. Maybe its something to look into? To them its like a play group where there get to do arts and crafts but there also learning how to interact with others at the same time.

[boys2mom]

Thanks everyone - you're all so helpful and it's great to hear different thoughts. Unfortunately homeschooling is not an option for us - I wish it was. And believe me, I've considered switching schools, but ds said absolutely not - he wants to graduate with his class next year. Today, I'm to speak with the school psychologist who I will ask to observe ds in class. I do realize that he may not be as popular as others or, for that matter, need the popularity as much as others. And I agree - I do not want to sacrifice ds' individuality for the sake of conforming to a group - especially one I wouldn't even choose for him (ie, not a good influence). But I do want to be sure he's happy, and while he seems happy at home and says he 's happy at school, I wonder... I also want him to be able to relate to peers and develop social skills, as this is all preparation for the rest of his life. And while I don't think it's Asbergers, I am open to hearing that. If the school pych suggests an evaluation, I will go along with that. I think the social group is a great idea and will discuss that with her as well. In the meantime, I'm trying to work with him on behaviors I see at home, like not reading me when I say (in plain english) no, I don't want to hear a joke you know is innappropriate, and just being annoying (tapping someone's chair repeatedly, etc.). And I'll try to increase his play time with other kids, without pressuring him to do so. And I'll try to sleep through the night without worrying :-).

[mamaduck]

Gosh, he sounds like my 10 yo in a lot of ways! I agree with the pp that one key approach has been to find something he excels at, and feed that need. For my son, the need it excel academically, and to partipiate in chorus. These are not the things the other boys love -- but he does, and they feed a real need for him.

He doesn't have friends at school, and I worry about that. But we provide a lot for him in terms of playdates on the weekends.

As far as aspergers -- I see tendancies in my son, but don't think he's diagnosable. Still though, just recognizing tendancies helps me to tailor my approach -- teaching him social skills in a systematic way -- not expecting him to just absorb them like everyone else!

There is a great book called, "How Rude," http://www.amazon.com/How-Rude-Teena...e=UTF8&s=books
The book teaches manners and such, but in a funny way. Some sections are too advanced -- geared towards teens (about dating.) But if you worked through the relevent sections together, it might be helpful to him. You could save the rest for later!

[Marsupialmom]

I don't think it hurts to rule out Aspergers.

As for the figure pulling thing.....who taught him that? Model the appropriate behavior and also that is, IMO, age appropriate childish behavior. He might be doing it with the teacher instead of other 9 year olds because he views her as a (gasp) friend.

As for the shoving.....I thought that was aggression. Now what needs to happen is if he gets pushed accidently someone needs to help him decifer accidental to aggressive. The teacher would be the first responder on this one.

As for friends at school....you might find that it is impossible for him to have friends at school. It will be the other stuff he does that he finds his grove and friendship. I have seen this scenerio play out through Boy Scouts. I see the square pegs finding there place in scouts. I have seen boys that fit in fine at school change at scout functions and "be themselves" because they don't have to act. I know this happens other places, karate class, gaming stores, et.

[pjabslenz]

If his teacher is noticing these behaviors they/you can arrange to have the school do some evaluations based on her observations. I think it's great that the school psychologist will be observing your child.

My ds is in the same boat with social situations and chooses to play alone vs deal with peers. However he does have friends but he's on a totally different level than them. I've always said my ds marches to the beat of his own drum and like a pp mentioned I don't want him to feel he's odd for being that way. A friend recommended a book called .......Quirky Kids. I can't remember the first part or the author but it really helped me with understanding some of my ds's sensory needs and ways to cope with them.

[BamaDude]

I don't mean to minimize your concerns, but...

When I was in fifth grade, my teacher called my parents and told them much the same thing that your son's teacher told you: She thought the kids I sat with at lunch were inappropriate, that I was immature, and that I didn't "connect" with my classmates. She did this without ever mentioning these problems to me first, by the way.

First off, I didn't think who I chose to sit with at lunch was any of the teacher's business unless a fight broke out or we became so loud as to disturb the lunchroom as a whole.

As for immaturity, then as now I was a smart-aleck and thoroughly enjoyed playing the class clown. Getting a good laugh out of my classmates was one way of connecting with them that my teacher didn't seem to consider valid.

As for "connecting" with my classmates, there were very few of them with which I had anything in common. They were all psychotic football fans who lived to watch every possible game whereas I preferred reading quietly by myself.

The result of my teacher's phone call was that my parents freaked out and I was forced to spend the entire rest of fifth grade sitting with people I couldn't stand at lunch and pretending I cared about football to "connect" with my "appropriate" peer group.

In retrospect, that teacher was just out of college with a head full of theories and preconceptions and no practical experience teaching fifth-graders (it was in fact her first year teaching), not to mention a whole catalog of social development issues of her own to deal with.

Furthermore, your son is exactly right about Quiznos and Subway: Neither one is very healthy. I think your son is showing remarkable maturity by voicing an unpopular although technically correct opinion to his peers. A boy who has the courage to be that outspoken at 9 shouldn't be punished or treated like there's something wrong with him, especially by his own parents. After all, does not everyone on this forum swim against the tide of societal norms in one way or another, be it by co-sleeping, child-led weaning, babywearing, or any number of other "crunchy" activities?

Before taking your son to have him tested for problems, take a good hard look at the teacher who feels he has these problems. How well-adjusted is she in social matters?

My two cents.

[Mama Dragon]

I read a few replies but am really only going to address the OP.

Your 9 year old sounds perfectly normal. Absolutely, perfectly, NORMAL. Just because he doesn't act like a miniature adult doesn't mean he's headed for a life of crime and friendlessness. It's not required that he handle social situations like everyone else. He can be awkward and shy and embarrassed and it's ok. No one needs to fix it and it pisses me off that someone has made you feel your son needs to be fixed.

[merpk]

Agreeing with Synthea entirely. (This coming from another mother of a 9yo with similar-sounding social issues ...)

[clane]

Awww, I wish your ds was local to us (you're not in Central FL, are you?) as he sounds like he would get along great with my ds and a few of the other boys in our local group (at least 2 of which are gifted & my ds is currently in the testing process for gifted). Is your DS a "smart cookie"? Because sometimes these kids are really bright and just have not the slightest clue how to get along in society.

PS My DS turned down a cookie last week b/c they had a cookie at the valentines party and he did not want to eat too many because "they are junk food and not good for me". So YAY to your ds for pointing this out to his classmates.

[boys2mom]

Thanks for all the ideas and comments. I don't want to change ds either. He's been the challenging child since early on, and I haven't always handled it as well as I probably could have - so I am very consciously treading lightly now. Plus, he's such a great kid - funny and smart and kind. We just spent a week away and I've watched him interact with adults and other kids. His preference on the beach was to dig and build alone in the sand, but he had no problem trying to enter conversations or being funny and entertaining at dinner with adult friends. Sometimes the other people in the conversation weren't polite enough to include him or pick up on his attempts to join in, but his efforts were polite and relevant. I would like to be reassured that he is happy at school and I know he likes playdates - I'd like him to have some. I agree that it's fine for him to be awkward and shy - in fact his older brother is also. And in fact both had the same teacher, and she acknowleges that pickings are slimmer in ds's current class for similar companions - not as many boys and more alpha - jock - aggressive than in my older ds' year. There are things I still think I need to work on - ds does overreact to perceived slights and he does need to learn where to draw the line on innappropriate behavior (ie, ok to talk about passing gas, not ok to pass gas in class). And I think he needs to learn to let go of the little stuff and not hold grudges. I do think he has withdrawn socially at school due to residual anger and hurt feelings from last year. He says the other kids are all nice to him, but he also says he would rather read than try to enter a coversation at school and risk being told "mind your business." I'm trying not to be hypersensitive about everything that comes out of his mouth, and let my own need for approval affect how I view his beautiful individuality. I have asked the school psych to observe him in class - I think she's more objective than teacher. And I've spoken to person who runs a social group. I'm not sure he needs it, but I was reassured that they do not try to change the child, but would put him in a group with 4 similar boys (age and temperment) and help them develop social skills through play and conversation. I can probably use my own group :-). I've picked up some of the books recommended on this thread and have found them helpful to use as guides and everyone's comments here have helped so much to put things in perspective. It's a tough road, and a learning experience for both of us.


Btw, Clane, unfortunately no, we don't live in sunny FL, but in freezing NYC.