Unschooling Support Thread - Page 3

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by LeftField

Ok, I feel the urge to apologize to anyone whose feelings I may have hurt. I've had a 4 year old asking how to read and I even tried the EZ book since he kept asking (we got bored and gave it up after 3 days). I understand children demanding and pulling to learn certain things. That's what I love about unschooling, that there is no right or wrong time for a child to learn; they just learn when they are ready. I still don't see it as "child-led" when a parent is trying to turn their toddler into a reader when that toddler isn't sincerely expressing interest and possibly isn't ready. But if I've hurt any feelings, I'm sorry. It's been in the back of my mind lately and it's one of those things that I cannot relate to in this forum. Anyway, if I hurt feelings, I'm sorry.

OK. I hope you are not speaking to me. I am not hurt in any way, shape or form. I think it's natural for hsers to have strong thoughts.

[AngelBee]

I think we are all over thinking.

Unschooling is whatever it is to YOUR family. It does not really matter what it is in another family.

I use Charlotte Mason as an inspiration for me...with how I live each day, what I expose the kids to, books that I can read to them.

I read to them because they have asked me to. They rarely ask for certain books, so the selection right now is up to us.

We also use Math U See because Dom and Abby requested a math program.

I also try to do reading to them and math at the same time each day so "I" do not forget as I have severe ADHD and thrive on routines. My children now that and are ok with that. If they want to skip the day, that is fine though.

Does that make us homeschoolers instead or unschoolers? Not to me

[AngelBee]

For me child led means nothing.

I prefer child directed.

I am welcome to present opportunities, books, resources, etc. They direct how those interactions go.

Think breastfeeding...I can offer the boob, they choose whether or not to nurse

If they ask for the boob when I have not offered, they still get to nurse.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by shaywyn

Well, I saw you posting what you thought people should post and you seemed to be making this harder than it has to be. Sorry. I certainly did not mean to be disrespectful, I'm slightly offended myself that you took it that way. I am all about processing, I just felt a lot of negativity in your posts in this "support" thread. I am sorry if my perceptions were off.

I dont feel negative at all.

I want to understand what people are saying when they use the word unschooling. I think if it were more clear (ok, and I wonder if I am the only one wanting clarity lol) so we can have good exchanges of ideas without one group of folks feeling left out or frustrated by threads that don't have meaning to them.

Although, I suppose one can't really do that. Or can we?

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by UUMom

See, that's the thing that's tough. Are unschoolers frustrated when there is a thread with people asking questions about how to meet the needs of a child? When do certain questions become not unschooling questions.

Can there ever be direct instruction, per the child's interest, for unschoolers?

I feel badly because I feel like I've introduced this dynamic to this thread and I'm not even claiming to be a total unschooler. I really didn't mean to muddy this thread and I apologize for that. To me, personally, someone who probably isn't a total unschooler, I see a big difference between a 2 year old and, say, an 8 year old. I was referring to 1, 2 and 3 year olds...toddlers who haven't yet developed a strong sense of self apart from their mother's identify. An 8 year old, for example, is going to let you know if he doesn't want to do something. A 2 year old, OTOH, is not going to filter the parental messages of "you learning to read and count is important to me" as well.

Again, my 5 year old, who is a very young child and who is just now starting to really see himself as the center of his world to replace me being the center of his world...he very clearly gives me messages of "Ooh, that sounds interesting. I'd like to hear more." and "That doesn't really hold my interest now, thanks anyway". My 3 year old, OTOH, still sees me as the all-important figure in his world and he is very eager to please me. If I push an agenda of early academics, he might do things that he doesn't care for so much just to please me. My 5 year old wouldn't stand for that. So I feel like I have to make a clear distinction between me offering something that I think they might like and me offering something because it's important to my ego that they learn it.

I'm walking away from this post less certain than I was before, which is good, because it's making me think. But I really didn't intend to introduce controversy to the thread. I'm not making any declarations on behalf of the unschooling community or anything.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

I think we are all over thinking.

Unschooling is whatever it is to YOUR family. It does not really matter what it is in another family.

I use Charlotte Mason as an inspiration for me...with how I live each day, what I expose the kids to, books that I can read to them.

I read to them because they have asked me to. They rarely ask for certain books, so the selection right now is up to us.

We also use Math U See because Dom and Abby requested a math program.

I also try to do reading to them and math at the same time each day so "I" do not forget as I have severe ADHD and thrive on routines. My children now that and are ok with that. If they want to skip the day, that is fine though.

Does that make us homeschoolers instead or unschoolers? Not to me

OK. :-) I appreciate the thoughts.

So, not to beat a dead horse, , but why does unschooler describe you, but hser does not?

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by LeftField

I feel badly because I feel like I've introduced this dynamic to this thread and I'm not even claiming to be a total unschooler. I really didn't mean to muddy this thread and I apologize for that. To me, personally, someone who probably isn't a total unschooler, I see a big difference between a 2 year old and, say, an 8 year old. I was referring to 1, 2 and 3 year olds...toddlers who haven't yet developed a strong sense of self apart from their mother's identify. An 8 year old, for example, is going to let you know if he doesn't want to do something. A 2 year old, OTOH, is not going to filter the parental messages of "you learning to read and count is important to me" as well.

Again, my 5 year old, who is a very young child and who is just now starting to really see himself as the center of his world to replace me being the center of his world...he very clearly gives me messages of "Ooh, that sounds interesting. I'd like to hear more." and "That doesn't really hold my interest now, thanks anyway". My 3 year old, OTOH, still sees me as the all-important figure in his world and he is very eager to please me. If I push an agenda of early academics, he might do things that he doesn't care for so much just to please me. My 5 year old wouldn't stand for that. So I feel like I have to make a clear distinction between me offering something that I think they might like and me offering something because it's important to my ego that they learn it.

I'm walking away from this post less certain than I was before, which is good, because it's making me think. But I really didn't intend to introduce controversy to the thread. I'm not making any declarations on behalf of the unschooling community or anything.

The thing is, you didn't muddy the waters...the water is already muddy.

Seriously, if we could figure out what unschooling is...there might not need to be a separate forum, or everyone would feel more comfortable sharing in these forums.

I think the lack of consensus of what unschooling is and what it is not is the issue...for me. Just speaking for me.

[nancy926]

You didn't hurt my feelings!

See, I don't see unschooling as never teaching your kid anything. I see it as not asking them to do a math worksheet when they're not interested, or trying to show them how to build a cube when they'd rather be reading about dinosaurs.

If my daughter asks me to help her learn how to read, I'm going to help her. I can't imagine that unschoolers would say I should NOT help her? I should force her to learn on her own?

If you introduce an activity to a child and they think it's fun, I don't see how that's bad. I bake, I knit, I do crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles. I'm not going to avoid doing them in front of my kids! And if they want to help, cool. And if they don't, cool.

The other night DD1 asked what a brain was and what it did. Whew! Right before bed was not exactly the time to discuss that, but I did the best I could and DH followed up over the next few days. Then we were talking about having babies (for the record, she is never having them, she doesn't want it to hurt, LOL), and I mentioned that some people took medicine to make it not hurt so much. She wanted to know how that worked, so we brought up the brain again and talked about how there are cells in your body that talk to the brain, etc.

My point is that kids ask a LOT of questions. And my stance as an unschooler is that I will try to answer them, or help her find the answers to them, to the best of my ability.

I will also introduce things if i think she might be interested in them. I will not just notice that she seems to like pianos and music BUT wait and hope she figures out that she can ask to take piano lessons. I will ask if she wants to play around with a piano and maybe get a book that talks about piano music and how to learn to play it.

Before we talked about reading, she had it in her head that ONLY adults could read! If I hadn't mentioned that she could learn if she wanted to, would she ever have figured it out? Probably.

But to me unschooling is about knowing your child and understanding the way they think about things, and tailoring your approach to that. Not just leaving them alone all day every day to do anything they want. Certainly, most days we do leave DD to her own devices. But we also introduce ideas to her and ask her questions.

I know that is not PURE unschooling but so be it. Much of my philosophy might stem from the fact that my parents seemed supremely uninvolved in my interests. It was all up to me, but I was a kid and I didn't even know what was possible most of the time. (Who knew there were entire summer camps just for kids who liked to sing?) I want to let my daughters know what's out there for them and then let them decide what to try.

[UUMom]

--Unschooling is whatever it is to YOUR family. It does not really matter what it is in another family. --

I am not sure I would agree...but I am overthinking this.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by UUMom

--What I meant is something like this. If I bought word flashcards for my 1 year old and worked with him in that way, he probably wouldn't have refused. He wouldn't really be old enough to have such a strong self-identification and interests to decline. He might just enjoy me spending the one on one time with him. But that's not child-led to me. Technically, he didn't say "no" and might even start getting excited when I pull the cards out simply because he's learned that that's how I interact with him. But it was clearly parent-led, to me. That's what I meant.--

I get this too. But I would counter that a child might really find something like this fun (lol I suppose, maybe. I don't know.) But the thing is children don't know all that is out there. Parents are always introducing new ideas and events to tiny children.

If we feed them junk, they eat. If we feed them healthier foods, they eat tha. Parents don't wait around for babies to ask them to read a book to them. They don't know what books are...a parent introduces a book and the child likes it. Is introducing a child to a book, or a flash card, or an apple not child-led?

I know...people are saying 'semantics' or something like that. But what is child led, actually? Where is the line between parents introducing the world to their children and children discovering everyhing on their own. 'hey, I know a cool game. It's with marbles, and you play like this" or "I know a cool word game, and it goes like this..."

I mean, what's the difference?

I am not mad or upset, for the record. I am vigorously participating in a discussion I think is very interesting.

I'm glad you're not upset. It's hard to read tone over the Internet and I didn't know if anyone was upset. I feel a bit nervous, that's all.

Maybe (??) the difference is the intention behind introducing. I might introduce something to my young child because I personally like it and I want to share it. I technically introduce stuff to my dh and vice-versa. But maybe (??) it's different if we introduce something because we want the child to learn it. I wouldn't use flash-cards with my 1 year old because I don't, personally, use them or enjoy them. If I used them with my 1 year old, I would assume I was doing it because it was important to me that he learns something that I want him to. I've thought about asking my 5 year old if he wants to use some, because he's learning to read and he might enjoy them. I spoke about this in a previous post, but, at his age, he is able to make the decision based on what he actually wants, rather than because he senses it's important to me and he wants to please me.

Maybe that's the difference then? Maybe it's the intention behind what we are doing. Am I doing this because I want to share something I find interesting or that my child might find interesting? Or am I doing this because it's important to my ego that he learns it or I'm anxious he won't learn it?

I'm not sure.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by nancy926

See, I don't see unschooling as never teaching your kid anything. I see it as not asking them to do a math worksheet when they're not interested, or trying to show them how to build a cube when they'd rather be reading about dinosaurs.

If my daughter asks me to help her learn how to read, I'm going to help her. I can't imagine that unschoolers would say I should NOT help her? I should force her to learn on her own?

If you introduce an activity to a child and they think it's fun, I don't see how that's bad. I bake, I knit, I do crossword puzzles and jigsaw puzzles. I'm not going to avoid doing them in front of my kids! And if they want to help, cool. And if they don't, cool.

Ok, we are very similar then. I got the chemistry curriculum for my son because I knew he loved science and he had a "thing" for molecules. I introduced it to him (guessing he would like it) and I also made it clear that it was about him so that he didn't have to use it if he wasn't interested. I do offer a lot. Many times, I get taken up on it and at other times, my offering is declined, which is fine too.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by mamarhu

: And folks don't have to agree exactly with me for a discussion to be interesting.

Yes. I so agree.

So are you unschooler who is not frustrated with lots of threads that talk about various currics? Or do you just skim everything and see what might be interesting. (I am a skimmer). Do you feel you have folks to talk with when you need to?

I am just curious if the frustration is universal...or not.

I don't see anyone doing things exactly as our family does them, but that's totally ok by me. I like to share what we are doing, and I enjoy reading what others are doing. Sometimes I even like the ease I see when people use a certain curric. Like, something that is fluid, and lively, but has a framework. Sometimes I feel like I am constantly reinventing the wheel. If my child has a thing for dinos (why is it always dinos!? lol) then I would like to know of a great dino program. Perhaps we would find pieces of such interesting. Perhaps my child would be grateful that I actually had some physical *stuff* to share.

And in the end, I don't like others to feel left out. .

[nancy926]

I think we're overthinking, too.

To me, anyone not "in school" is homeschooling. You unschool if you don't use a curriculum. Oversimplified maybe, but it avoids a lot of confusion.

An oxbow lake, BTW, is a C-shaped lake that's made when a meandering stream changes course so it no longer meanders around the C shape. The ends of the C get cut off from the rest of the stream and become a lake (or pond).

NOW you can get on with life! LOL. I laughed out loud when my friend said that to me. I asked how it could possibly be necessary to know that to function as an adult. He did not have an answer.

[faerierose]

Hi, I think an unschooling support thread is great! *subbing*

[mama in the forest]

My son used the electric snowblower today for three hours. Because he wanted to. And then he built a fire for us in the wood-burning stove. I watched him patiently working up the fire, tending it, waiting, observing...he looked at me and simply said, "more oxygen, more fire...less oxygen, less fire". I smiled. And he did it simply for the JOY of it...the joy in the process and in life. That's what I love about unschooling.

[TigerTail]

Now my life's education is complete.

Thanks!

[UUMom]

--Maybe that's the difference then? Maybe it's the intention behind what we are doing. Am I doing this because I want to share something I find interesting or that my child might find interesting? Or am I doing this because it's important to my ego that he learns it or I'm anxious he won't learn it?--


I do think intention and parental ego is a huge piece of the puzzle. Some children may really enjoy something another family might not see as unschooling. But how could an unschooling family not do something that gives their child pleasure, even if it doesn't quite fit their notion of what an unschooler 'would' do. I sometimes read the curric, or other threads, that might not be exactly about what I am about. I do get ideas...and I am like the cat...who is too curious.

I think there is a lot of cool stuff out there, and I want to know about it.

[mama in the forest]

Now my life's education is complete.

Thanks!

Anytime!

[Ruthla]

I'd like to keep this thread for people who identify as unschoolers, or who find that the unschooling philosophy resonates with them, and would like to chat with other like-minded people.

Maybe start a new thread if you want to debate "what is unschooling?"

[mama in the forest]

DUh! I just realized you were replying about the ox-bow lake! :