My 3.5 yo has a rage problem!!

[FreeRangeMama]

I am in need of some ideas to help my ds learn better/healthier ways to express his anger and frustration. He has a flash temper, flies into rages, and has absolutely NO impulse control. Any little thing may set him off and he will punch, kick, or pinch his siblings. He acts completely without thought, then as soon as he realizes what he has done he just repeats, "I'm sorry" over and over. Naturally his older brother (almost 6) is angry and doesn't want to hear an apology so ds2 inevitably hits him again out of frustration. Any intervention by me ends in him growling, yelling, and throwing things, or hitting and kicking things. Hard. He actually hurts himself and I have to restrain him. It is horrible.

It is not diet, it is not need for attention, it is not sensory issues, etc. He just acts before thinking and can't control his impulses. His father had anger management issues into adulthood, though he has learned to control those impulses over time.

He is such a sweet, energetic, and outgoing boy and this is so hard for him. I imagine it must be so scary for him to lose control of himself, and to watch him crumble with regret afterward. I worry that he will really get himself into trouble outside the home and I don't think it is fair for ds1 or dd to be subjected to his aggressive outbursts, but I know ds2 is the sweetest and most sensitive boy in the world who just needs a little help in this area.

I need ideas to help him.

Thanks!

[famousmockngbrd]

I just finished responding to another post about a 3.5 yr. old with anger issues, and I'll repeat myself here - 8-10 months makes a *world* of difference. So hang in there.

I have had several discussions with my 4 yr. old about impulses. We talked about how sometimes you just get this thought in your brain and you feel like you have to do it, immediately. Then we talked about how those thoughts are called "impulses" and sometimes they are good ideas, but sometimes they are bad ideas and we should always stop and think about them before we do them, to decide if it's a good idea or a bad idea. Then we talked a little about what constitues a good idea vs. a bad one (i.e. if someone will get hurt, it's a bad idea). This has actually helped with him, but I doubt it would have helped at 3.5. Sorry. I guess file this away in your "might be useful later" folder.

Another thing that has helped with both our 4 yr. old and our 19 mos. old is giving them phrases to yell when they feel angry/upset/frustrated. "Stop, Cole!" for the toddler, and "I feel so angry!" for the older one, for instance. Specific instructions - "Don't touch my blocks!" etc.

It's a slow process. It isn't helped by the fact that there are few truly satisfying ways to express anger that are also socially acceptable. I try to show them ways to blow off steam and calm down, like deep breathing or going into another room and stamping feet or throwing pillows or something, then when they are calm I try to give them words to express themselves. The yelling is for those in between times, when they are not out of control, but angry/frustrated enough that a calm, reasonable tone of voice is just not possible or truly reflective of their feelings. As an adult, I try not to yell, but I have learned a lot more coping mechanisms than they have. I try to remember that it is hard to feel things so intensely like children do, and have such limited ways of dealing with it. They will get it gradually, with loving guidance from such awesome mamas as ourselves.

[FreeRangeMama]

Thanks for your post, it always helps to have reminders of age appropriate behaviours Unfortunately I feel we are in a situation where his difficulties are more problematic than "typical" or developmental if that makes sense. Most kids this age do have problems controlling impulses and with appropriate expressions of anger (we still experience that with our older child occasionally). And it definitely IS something that is learned over time, it is just the severity and intensity of the problem that I am concerned about.

Perhaps GD isn't the correct forum, as it isn't really a "discipline" problem, I just feel lost as to how to help him My dh struggled with this kind of rage for a long time (and starting very young) but didn't really manage to get a handle on it until adulthood. I don't want my boy to struggle for that long. I need strategies to start implementing NOW to build on over time. I think it is unrealistic to expect him to get a handle on it at his young age, but if we could start the teaching process now then we can hope to have him be able to learn to think (or at least STOP) before he reacts.

I just hate how scared he gets at being so out of control. Such big feelings for such a small person. So if anyone has some ideas, thanks

[Magella]

I have a child who is similar. She tends to be explosive, reacts intensely and quickly, has a tendency to be verbally and physically aggressive. We have found that in terms of helping her learn to slow down her reactions and express herself and problem-solve in better ways, I've found two approaches to be extremely helpful. One is the approach outlined in the book The Explosive Child, and the other is the approach to learning and practicing conflict resolution skills (and skills of identifying and describing emotions, and perspective-taking) described in Raising A Thinking Child. Both have helped enormously, though it has taken quite some time and we still have a ways to go. Lots of empathy when she's upset helps her calm down. Remaining calm and centered ourselves is crucial. Also helpful, not really addressed in these books, is to monitor her level of arousal, help her become aware of it, and help her find ways of relaxing before she reaches the point of exploding in rage (she likes to sit in the closet, where it's cozy and private, to read; she likes a backrub; a quiet activity; space away from her siblings other than in the closet; a shower; guided visualization; and so on). It can seem like she explodes in a sudden flash, but often there are subtle cues that it's likely to happen. And keeping track of her triggers helps, because when we're aware of them we can either solve things proactively or we can keep an ear/eye out and jump in to mediate when we become aware that a trigger has just happened. If that makes sense.

And I would say, don't discount underlying causes. One great thing about The Explosive Child is the explanation of all the skills one needs in order to respond to frustration and conflict adaptively, and that children who explode often have lagging skills. Also, my dd has both anxiety and sensory issues that also contribute to her rage (in addition to some lagging skills). I wouldn't have guessed sensory issues, but (though it isn't the only factor) we've been told that sensory issues are a very likely factor in sibling conflict-the close proximity, the noise, the activity. So keeping sensory issues and triggers in mind, we can help her avoid a lot of situations in which she'd be likely to explode, and solve problems proactively to avoid situations of explosion. Dd's behaviors reached a point where it was really taking it's toll on the whole family, and we have found professional help to be very beneficial so far (and so far we haven't started therapies or finished evaluations, we've only gotten a better understanding of what's going on with her).

Oh, and if she does explode and get out of control, we do our best to stay calm and centered ourselves and just sit near/with her (once she's in a safe place, if that's necessary). Then we can talk afterward about what she was feeling and what happened. In this way she knows she's safe and loved, and she's seeing us model handling things in a calm manner.

[FreeRangeMama]

Thanks, I think I may have to check out The Explosive Child, but for my older ds :LO He is ASD and has sensory issues which lead to his meltdowns. And a lot of those techniques work wonders for him, but I could always use more ideas! The 3 yo is more of a sensory seeker/extreme extrovert. He does better when the weather is warmer and I can have him outside for most of the day (to burn off his tremendous amount of energy), but maybe less stimulation and less social outlets are part of his problem? I never thought about that.....he and his older brother are polar opposites, perhaps their "triggers" are opposite too? That would be typical wouldn't it

We do know that processed foods (probably red dyes and such) make him miserable, and he does so much better with absolutely no tv/videos, etc. We don't allow either of those things at home so I know they aren't contributing. Perhaps I need to keep better track of what makes for good days and bad.

Thanks again for the input

[GenomicsGirl]

I had a major mental breakdown earlier this week (which a lot of very compassionate MDC mamas helped me through) and I can tell you that I know how frustrating it is. I'm still working with ds, so I have no concrete advice to give you ... but you have my complete sympathy. After my breakdown, I spoke to a few IRL friends who I had never confided in about ds' attitude and they were shocked that I saw him as a problem - they saw him as active, and somewhat compulsive, but never any worse than any other boy his age. And I think that age has a lot to do with it. I will still be bringing him to get evaluated to rule out any sensory issues, which you know your son doesn't have, but I just need that peace of mind, too. Good luck with your ds! We should all keep posting these threads - the support I received was exceptional and really helped me muddle through that day. It's going to be an interesting journey for me

[FreeRangeMama]

I am glad you found support It is hard, especially with a first child, to know what age appropriate behaviours really are. I am so thankful that ds2 is a 2nd born as I have a better sense of what to expect. I don't know how well I would fair if he was my first! I think that is the only thing that allows me the patience to see it from HIS perspective instead taking it personally. My eldest has a whole different set of challenges and this age wasn't an easy one for him, but at least I "got" his behaviour more than I do ds2. His activity level is on par (well, a little on the extreme side of "on par" than his peers), but his temper just is over the top. Blind rage is just too much for a young child to handle, which is more of my concern at this point. At some point he will have the maturity to handle it better, predict it better, or at least understand it a little better. In the meantime he just needs help to COPE with the big strong feelings. He growls out of frustration and just breaks down afterward. Either that or he feels embarrassed for losing it. I hate both options, he shouldn't feel bad for FEELING and he shouldn't be AS overwhelmed by his outbursts. I mean, anger can be a hard emotion for anyone to handle (especially young children) but the despair he feels is so far out of line for how HE usually handles things that it is problematic.

Sigh, it is hard to put the problem into words. Most kids this age feel these things to some extent. And some handle it better than others. Like most things it is not the actual incidents that is the underlying problem, it is the severity and intensity that is the problem.

It is nice to at least write it out and think about it from different perspectives. I am sure a better approach will come to me, it just takes time

[famousmockngbrd]

Sometimes I forget that everyone doesn't know everything about me, and I leave important stuff out when I post. I didn't mean to imply that your problems are run-of-the-mill or ordinary or anything. I know what it's like to have a kid with rage problems. In my case, it's my 4 yr. old DS, who has gotten A LOT better over the last 3 or 4 months. He still has problems sometimes, though - just a few days ago he got into a fight with a friend of his over a Matchbox car, and was on top of him trying to wrestle it away. He started to hit his friend to get the car, and when I pulled him off his friend, he kicked his friend in the face. Then DS turned on me and started punching and kicking *me*. It was ugly. But, the good news is that this kind of thing happens a lot less often than it used to, and the episodes don't last as long.

I wish I had some good advice for you but I wonder all the time if what I am doing is helping or not. Plus I have tried several different things over the years so who knows which of these (if any) have "worked". I just try to do whatever makes me not hate myself afterward.

[FreeRangeMama]

I wish I had some good advice for you but I wonder all the time if what I am doing is helping or not. Plus I have tried several different things over the years so who knows which of these (if any) have "worked". I just try to do whatever makes me not hate myself afterward.

Isn't that the way it works! Just do what feels best and hope it all works out. Sometimes it isn't really "advice" we need anyway, just a place to work it out in our own minds. I appreciate that opportunity more than I can say

[famousmockngbrd]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

Sometimes it isn't really "advice" we need anyway, just a place to work it out in our own minds.

ITA.

[GenomicsGirl]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

Sometimes it isn't really "advice" we need anyway, just a place to work it out in our own minds. I appreciate that opportunity more than I can say

Yep. That's it. We sometimes just need to be able to let it out!

[Starflower]

I am dealing with some of the same issues with my 3-1/2 year old DD. Lately she goes from seemingly fine to "BAM!!" in about 3 seconds flat. But there are subtle clues most of the time if we're able to pay attention. Also, in addition to age appropriate stuff, I have been really stressed out lately. I know DD picks up on this - big time.

I am reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" right now and it definitely describes DD in most ways. I'm also realizing that she is very sensitive. I have always been super sensitive myself and very introverted. She seems more extroverted and I think I had confused that with lack of sensitivity. But really when I observe her reactions to situations, we have several things in common. So I am trying to focus not only on DD's reactions, but to be able keep my own in check since we both seem to be easily overwhelmed by too much stimuli.

So far what I like about "Spirited Child" is that she talks a lot about seeing the positive in the children and vocalizing it. Also, she really focuses on watching for clues to what the kids are feeling/how they are acting. She gives suggestions for helping them learn to recognize the feelings in themselves, how they usually start to react and to find ways of taking themselves out of situations that set them off, but in a socially acceptable manner.

I'm still reading the book but it has definitely given me some insight into myself as well as DD - and how we react/interact with each other.

It's nice in some ways just to know that I'm not just a wimp or a failure because I have trouble keeping myself on an even keel when I am the SAH parent of an only child.

[Fiddlemom]

nothing very wise to add, only to say my older one was like this and is slowly growing out of it....like you, we've worked on diet: we know any tiny bit of refined sugar can be a trigger, or too glycemic foods at the wrong time...videos are still around our house in the late afternoon, but interestingly enough they aren't as obsessed with them, which is a relief--I also see the difference in both kids when there are no videos at all (we don't have TV).

It is helpful to read about other kids who are like him!

[Fiddlemom]

forgot to add--and this is not to infer anything in the very young people we're talking about, necessarily, but I wanted to share some research around this I did recently which pertains to my own family--

We have alcoholism in our extended family, also with a history of rages, and they all have signs of hypoglycemia.

Recently I googled "hypoglycemia alcoholism rages" and came up with all sorts of stuff, since the rages around here seem to be largely blood-sugar related (the effects of a little bit of sugar can last for 2-3 days or possibly longer). WOW! There's a lot to read about this topic. Here's an interesting one:

http://www.survivediabetes.com/hypt2.htm

Don't know if this is useful to OP, but it might be to some others--it is certainly helpful to me.

Jenny

[Piglet68]

Wanted to also suggest sleep-deprivation as a cause. How many hours of sleep does your DS get per 24 hrs? Should be around 12 or 13. I just read Sleepless in America by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. Around my house, explosions of the sort you describe are due to lack of sleep. Might want to keep a sleep log for a week or two and see how much he's really getting.

Otherwise perhaps a therapist of some kind could provide help.

[FreeRangeMama]

Interesting about the sugar, we don't eat refined anything, but I did notice that he was so much worse when he attended regular preschool. The parents took turns bringing snacks and often they would bring candy and koolaide. That isn't what *I* would call a snack. One of the many reasons we pulled him out. I should re-evaluate what foods he gets in a day, we don't eat processed stuff at all (except on a rare occasion) but maybe something we are eating is increasing his blood-sugar levels.

Sleep? He sleeps a solid 12 hours a night. 7 till 7. Sometimes more. He actually insists I put him to bed if he is sleepy. The boy reads his tired signals very well

I am noticing that some of it might just be pent up energy needing to bubble out. It has been cold and we have been ill (so therefore less active). He is a boy that never sits still. Ever! Even at dinner he stands on the bench and dances while he eats. Or fidgets and bounces. He bounds out of bed at 7am and just goes non-stop until he crashes at night. He is very animated as well, always "on" telling stories, making up "movies" for family, creating musical theater Even in stores he has to touch everything in sight. He exhausts everyone. I never really thought about it like that before, perhaps when his need for physical outlets isn't met thoroughly enough it has to come out somehow. He *can* sit still when he is interested enough. And he is fixated on videos (one of the many reasons we are tv-free) and gets so completely absorbed.

Regardless, I feel I am handling it better this week. Thanks for allowing me to work it out here, it helps me to gain perspective and work with him in a better frame of mind (which is always helpful). Keep the suggestions and ideas flowing. It seems several of us have these kinds of challenges. It is nice to share ideas

[Fiddlemom]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

Interesting about the sugar, we don't eat refined anything, but I did notice that he was so much worse when he attended regular preschool. The parents took turns bringing snacks and often they would bring candy and koolaide. That isn't what *I* would call a snack. One of the many reasons we pulled him out.

This is one of the reasons we're not doing school--ds went to a preschool in a very wealthy area and I was completely appalled by the garbage these kids brought in on absolutely every holiday and birthday. Ds was too young to self-control around it (he is now....phew!). What an uphill battle. I wonder if other people are just not aware of how bad they and their kids feel from eating this way, or if I'm just lucky enough to have a child who is very sensitive to it. I thank ds at least once a week for having a strong enough reaction to it to force us all to give it up 99%.

Originally Posted by freerangemama

I am noticing that some of it might just be pent up energy needing to bubble out.

this is a great observation....I know my ds is much worse when we're cooped up with illness or whatnot. Videos are the double edged sword as they are with you; it is great for him to be so entertained but we so often get the backlash, I personally think from him being so sedentary for an hour and often being out of touch with his own body's signals. I need to bring the little trampoline back in off the porch!

[FreeRangeMama]

I wonder if other people are just not aware of how bad they and their kids feel from eating this way, or if I'm just lucky enough to have a child who is very sensitive to it. I thank ds at least once a week for having a strong enough reaction to it to force us all to give it up 99%.

We have been mostly grateful for my older ds' corn allergy. Naturally I would prefer if he didn't have an allergy that could kill him. But 95% of all processed and refined foods contain corn so we are forced to eat healthy even when we don't want too He has made us so much more aware of the crap that goes into food and we are all so much healthier for it! That is probably why we never noticed ds2 had a problem with the stuff, he was never actually EXPOSED to food dyes and such until preschool. I wonder how much MORE affected by these troubles he would be if he ate a more typical diet? :

[GenomicsGirl]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

Naturally I would prefer if he didn't have an allergy that could kill him. But 95% of all processed and refined foods contain corn so we are forced to eat healthy even when we don't want too

Is it bad that I've lied to people in the past about my children's allergies? I tell them that they can't eat certain things so that they won't be given crap behind my back :

[Fiddlemom]

Originally Posted by GenomicsGirl

Is it bad that I've lied to people in the past about my children's allergies? I tell them that they can't eat certain things so that they won't be given crap behind my back :

I tell people that ds is "allergic" to refined sugar. I don't have medical or scientific proof that this is true. Otherwise, people don't seem to hear it or might think it's some sort of insane control problem on my part. The truth is, refined sugar is toxic to EVERYBODY, so it's not really inaccurate. Saying it poisons him is closer to the truth; but that takes the conversation places I'd rather not go ("you think I'm trying to poison your son with this lemonade???").

I usually tell people that he's allergic to refined sugar and that it causes him to get violent, and they don't usually ask any questions ;-)

I'm also alcoholic (sober 10 years) and when I tell people simply that I don't drink b/c I'm allergic to alcohol (true) no one blinks an eye while the word 'alcoholic' raises all kinds of eyebrows and disbelief because I really don't look the part ;-)