The Granola Extreme - Page 8

[jazzharmony]

Originally Posted by MomInFlux

In fact, I don't think MDC would have anything of value for me if not for the EXTREME mamas. I wouldn't have learned a darned thing from this site if all the information were middle-of-the-road :yawning:

Brilliant

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

Why? Because I could feel the invisible eyes of the GD Righteous glaring down on me.
...
It didn't matter that my personal philosophy is that it IS okay to draw a line and say after appropriate preparation, we're going NOW, I'm sorry if you don't like it but we have an appointment we cannot miss.
...
It took me several hours to talk myself down from the fact that I was applying a standard that was unattainable to my parenting.
...
It's enough to make me reconsider all the research and time I put into parenting by reading these boards. Because they just make me feel inferior sometimes.

Bolding mine . . . this is really unfair to people who genuinely are able to come up with a non-child-grabbing solution. Fwiw, I would likely have done the same thing. Then, if I was feeling badly about the way it went, I would have realized, as you said, that I was the one setting the ideal - NOT other people.

Originally Posted by Yooper

Suppose you had posted that on the GD forum. Those posts are always there. The "this happened and I did not like how it went, what could I do differently?" threads. I tend to not reply to those. It is almost always going to be a trainwreck because the OP is usually not actually looking for suggestions. They want everyone to say "you are right, there is absolutely no alternatives to that situation except exactly what you did". When someone posts asking for suggestions, by mind starts brainstorming and I might pass along ideas or my own experiences. Or at least I did, until I discovered that indeed, they are looking for validation rather than suggestions. I think it is perfectly fine to ask for validation. But to ask for "suggestions" and then start calling posters "holier than thou" for making suggestions that unbeknownst to them are unacceptable to the OP is not really productive for anyone.

That's a real shame. Although I pretty much never get around to posting on the GD board, I try to evaluate what I've done with my dd's and often almost post a "this is what I did, what could I have done" thread (I'm just usually too exhausted and then I forget until next time I run into the same situation). If I ever post a question like this, respond, okay? It'll be genuine.

[caligirl]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

The problem I see is that an unreachable standard is being set here....


Mamas worry that if their baby cries for three minutes, EVER, that the child will suffer horrible psychological damage. They ask pleadingly if it's "okay" that their kid accidentally saw half an episode of Mr. Rogers once, or if the baby sits in a bouncy seat while the mom takes a five minute shower. They write of the angst they suffer for leaving their child in the care of their husbands for an hour, for the first time, when the child is over three years old.

Again and again I see mamas posting with guilt -- crushing guilt -- about not meeting some sort of AP super standard at ALL TIMES. And attempting to meet most of these standards entails this huge, astonishing self-sacrifice on the mother's part. ...


Instead of helping women be the best mamas they can be, I sometimes feel like the AP movement can be a way to make women even more tortured about their choices -- because, sometimes, you really just can't be good enough.

OMG OMG OMG!!!!
It's like the words were copied right out of my brain!!!
I feel like this a lot lateley....
Sadly it's the reason why I don't come to MDC much anymore.
At one point in my life shortly after my second DD was born I was so obsessed with doing everything AP/NFL/ yada yada yada, that I had totally alienated myself from all of my friends because I felt like "nobody understood" and that they were "lame" for not making the same sacrafices I was, for their children. I became very judgmental. Of almost everyone and everything. I became like the OP mentioned.
I hated myself. I hated that my life had become so difficult. I felt like I was going crazy.

I had bad BF problems with #2 and put so much pressure on myself to keep up with it despite it being nearly impossible. I remember one day in particular when it was beautiful outside and all of the neighborhood was outside enjoying the day, but me. I watched from a rocking chair. A rocking chair I had been sitting in for pretty much the whole day, trying to nurse and get dd to sleep. I refused my husbands offer to give her a bottle and me a break because I literally felt like formula was evil (even though looking back she really needed supplementing then)l. I didn't dare put her down or give her to my husband because she would cry, and I wouldn't allow it. She needed me and only me. I felt like an insane person.

I had a mini nervous break down that evening and just cried that I was so tired of no sleep, sleeping with a baby attached to my breast all night, and just spending my days with her up in that rocking chair trying to get her to nurse and nap.
Every time I came on MDC for support all I got was "keep it up" and "you're doing what's best for your baby" when I really needed to hear " youv'e been doing the best you can, but it's OK to give yourself a break."

I remember one time ( a humiliating experience) of trying to nurse in public. I really felt like I wanted to cover up but after posting about purchasing a nursing cover up I was bullied into feeling like I shouldn't have to cover up, so again I set that standard fro myself. Instead of listening to my own gut, I was trying to keep up with the "AP Jonses", and it just wasn't working for me any longer. I felt like I couldn't breath.

Thankfully I have rebounded and landed somewhere in the middle of Crunchy and mainstream. I still try to do everything as AP and natural as possible, but I won't beat myself up about it if it dosen't work out.

I still very much value MDC and the women here that teach their knowledge and offer support.
Thanks for listening, I've wanted to get that off of my chest for a while now.

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by chloeM

What I dont understand is this, if someone can clarify this for me that would be great! #not aloud to spank turns into not aloud to ground or give time ours turns into not aloud to give consequences unless"natural" turns into why the heck does anyone have parents anyways? DOnt understand why, but It doesnt seem right, Im all for balance, but it seems people have taken GD and crunchiness toooo far. Am I the only one who feels this way? And please explain to me why you parent that way? respectfully)

For me, it comes down to the fact that my parents didn't spank (mom's actually EXTREMELY against spanking), but still used punishments such as time outs, etc, and I remember what that felt like . . . I remember very distinctly what it was like to be a kid, why I "misbehaved" and what I didn't learn with regards to how to express myself in a socially acceptable way - I refer to it as "fair weather parenting" . . . yk, "You must be alone when you're not pleasant to be around" - consequently when I did become self-destructive and suicidal with no real "reason", and was unable to be completely eloquent about it, I figured my mom would just be mad at me for being "overemotional" and didn't bother to talk to her. Because I didn't trust that she was there for me.
I wasn't punished a lot as a child. By the time I actually remember, it was very rare, I was a pretty good kid. I knew darn well my parents loved me. I didn't feel that they tried to understand me though. They just assumed I was being overdramatic and manipulative. When I was punished, I calmed down - by thinking about how much I hated my parents and how much I couldn't wait to get away from them. I got really good at not getting caught. I still don't feel I can really be myself around my parents.

I do believe natural consequences are a good thing - even logical consequences. I'm not perfect at all, I yell at my daughter and I really wish I wouldn't. I even resorted to time out once because I couldn't think. We use "time in" a lot to help dd1 cool down. And "be windy" (she has to inhale deeply in order to be the wind). I don't believe I should shield my children from consequences because I think it causes them to believe they can't handle life.

Anyway, those are my philosophical objections and reasons. I'll admit, I'm not doing well with it lately. I think punishing would be far easier - I just want to raise emotionally healthy adults.

[bczmama]

"Mamas worry that if their baby cries for three minutes, EVER, that the child will suffer horrible psychological damage. They ask pleadingly if it's "okay" that their kid accidentally saw half an episode of Mr. Rogers once, or if the baby sits in a bouncy seat while the mom takes a five minute shower. They write of the angst they suffer for leaving their child in the care of their husbands for an hour, for the first time, when the child is over three years old. "

I hear you so much about that! When I got in that zone, what I found really helpful was looking at all the people around me who are happy, healthy, wonderful people and didn't have that kind of upbringing.

My dad was extremely ill for the first nine months of his life. He had to be in a hospital several hours away from my grandparents' farm, and they could not afford to pay for my grandma to stay in town with him. In fact, she had to be on the farm to work as they let go of two hired men to pay for the hospital bills. I'd be surprised if he saw his parents for more than a couple hours once a week. Despite coming from a non-ideal situation after birth, he's a loving, responsible, stable and all around great person.

[newcastlemama]

As time goes on I am less hard on myself about being the perfect natural parent. It seems like every other time I read another post or article I have just unknowingly bought something toxic, did something emotionally/physiclaly damaging to my child or the Earth and so on.

You can only research and try and do the perfect thing so much. I like AP/NFL concepts and they made my family's life better, but I now know that I can't do everything perfect without sacrificing somewhere else (mentally, my marriage, finances, energy). So I just "eat the fruit, and spit out the pits" and do what is reasonable for us.

I don't know who the AP/NFL police are but most of them are probably in my imagination or just online. It is easy to think people are living a certain way when you don't see them in everyday real life. I also wanted to add that we all have our "specialties". Some moms have tons of anti vax info, others on GD, others on homebirth. So it can seem overwhelming like everyone has all the ansers while everyone has some piece of the answer instead.

Jen

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by MomInFlux

Because for me, the more I learned about GD, GD became less about "not spanking" and more about "respectful parenting". <snip>
In fact, I don't think MDC would have anything of value for me if not for the EXTREME mamas. I wouldn't have learned a darned thing from this site if all the information were middle-of-the-road :yawning:

Originally Posted by HerthElde

I refer to it as "fair weather parenting" . . . yk, "You must be alone when you're not pleasant to be around" - consequently when I did become self-destructive and suicidal with no real "reason", and was unable to be completely eloquent about it, I figured my mom would just be mad at me for being "overemotional" and didn't bother to talk to her. Because I didn't trust that she was there for me.
I wasn't punished a lot as a child. By the time I actually remember, it was very rare, I was a pretty good kid. I knew darn well my parents loved me. I didn't feel that they tried to understand me though. They just assumed I was being overdramatic and manipulative. When I was punished, I calmed down - by thinking about how much I hated my parents and how much I couldn't wait to get away from them. I got really good at not getting caught. I still don't feel I can really be myself around my parents.

I do believe natural consequences are a good thing - even logical consequences. I'm not perfect at all, I yell at my daughter and I really wish I wouldn't. I even resorted to time out once because I couldn't think. We use "time in" a lot to help dd1 cool down. And "be windy" (she has to inhale deeply in order to be the wind). I don't believe I should shield my children from consequences because I think it causes them to believe they can't handle life.

Anyway, those are my philosophical objections and reasons. I'll admit, I'm not doing well with it lately. I think punishing would be far easier - I just want to raise emotionally healthy adults.

: to all of the above. While I am not extreme, being able to read 'extreme' viewpoints on this board have helped me not only learn new things to incorporate into my own family, but also to flesh out the things I *don't* agree with and become more confident in myself

[RumiWithAView]

Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog

They didn't do GD, though I think they thought themselves very enlightened for only humiliating us and not beating us down physically.

I hope it's not cruel of me to find humor in this. I don't know why it touched my funny bone... maybe because I know people like this. Anyway, I'm just making my way through this thread and I had to tell you Belgian, that I love your posts.

You,too, chinakat. Loved the clockwork orange reference.

OK, back to reading.

[RumiWithAView]

Originally Posted by Rivka5

There's a recognized social psychology phenomenon in which, as groups of liked-minded people discuss their positions, they gradually become more extreme over time.

I think this is intriguing. It would explain so much... outside of message boards, even. How do rational folks that start out with certain ideals become maniacal fanatics?

Originally Posted by PatchyMama

Really, something to take into an account is that I think there is always an "arc" of development among our beliefs and who we are.

This is another great point. I'm reading a book right now about the ego and the effects of it on your life. What I take from it is that, at times, a person tends to try to condemn or convert others to feel better about their own choices. Once one is truly confortable, they no longer feel the need to make others see things their way. If we could stop seeing our Selves in our choices we wouldn't be so touchy/defensive about them. We identify with the roles, labels, and icons because it is easier than understanding what our true identity is... which is what is left when all that "stuff" is stripped away.

[HerthElde]

So, what's the deal here? Those of us that actually do hold some extreme views in our heart of hearts must put a disclaimer on everything that we write 'i believe' on that also states 'I understand that other people do not come from the same place and see the world through different filters and I'm okay with that'? Honestly, if a person were to think so little of me that they wouldn't think I know that, I have to say I really don't give a rat's arse if they judge me judgmental.

A big long-winded example: no, I don't believe you should go to your crying baby if you're going to throw her out the window. Yes, I do believe the reason you feel that way is largely because you're either depleted in key nutrients or your body is unable to properly process what you take in. Does that mean I believe you're a bad person if you continue to eat MacDonald's twice a week? Uh, no, that's what happens when you don't have the energy to cook for yourself. So if I say *insert nutrients here* might help, or that studies show being low in *somesuch* can be caused by intake of *something else* or whatever. I'm not saying "you're bad if you don't do it or if you turn to meds", because I understand it's not that simple. But do I really need to water down the message and come across sounding like all sides are equal, you'll still be mentally ok if you persist in doing what you're doing (assuming a tendency toward depression or whatever). It's like doctors who say formula is just as good as breastmilk because they're afraid of making women feel guilty.

Guilt is what you feel when your actions conflict with your ideals. Not someone else's.

Most of my views are extreme. I have a vision for my descendents that I am trying to live towards.That doesn't make me a bad person. I'm certainly not "following the crowd", I've never had any use for people who do things based solely on someone else's actions. I don't meet my own ideals all the time, and I'm actually okay with that. I'm human.
I have realized that my "causes" are all selfish - I'm concerned about my great great great grandchildren (even just about my own DNA), so environmental concerns are big with me. So I get frustrated sometimes when others do things that slap Mother Earth in the face. Even being anti-spanking is selfish - it's about the assault on my own fragile psyche when I have to see/hear/think about it.

[maxsmum]

Originally Posted by stirringleaf

aside from that, i agree with you to a degree. but i also, to use a cliche, dont think we should throw out the baby with the bathwater. deciding that the ap/NFL lifestlye is altogether not feminist is incredibly generalizing. there are plenty of women that choose healthy lifestyles for themselves and their children simply becasue they feel it is healthy, and they dont go all dogmatic about it and become martyrs. i know plenty of people who do this lifestyle within reason. i eat like 85 percent organic but somethimes i eat salsa con queso fake nacho cheese sauce. sometimes i dont drive my car for a week. but sometimes i drive it every day and even use it to drive my son to sleep on a mommy meltdown kind of night. i dont hide either experince nor do i feel shame about them. i do get a stomachache from the fake cheese, however.

This cracks me up, I LOVE fake cheese. Almost everything I eat is organic, healthy etc. but I cannot resist nachos with fake cheese. This is what always brings me back down from my high and mighty opinions about nutrition parenting etc. Sometimes I just have to remind myself that it is the overall picture that is important not every little detail.

Anyway, I think the problem is that baking cookies and caring for your home are not valued in our society as worthy tasks. It took me YEARS to come to terms with that. I wanted so badly to be what I believed a feminist was - someone with a real powerful job, sexually empowered, smart and financially independent. This caused me so much emotional angst until I finally decided I could be a feminist and still bake cookies, and clean my house, and stay at home with my son and work in the helping professions. I want to have CHOICES and OPTIONS to do whatever I want and I want my work to be valued. This is what feminism means to me.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

So, what's the deal here? Those of us that actually do hold some extreme views in our heart of hearts must put a disclaimer on everything that we write 'i believe' on that also states 'I understand that other people do not come from the same place and see the world through different filters and I'm okay with that'? Honestly, if a person were to think so little of me that they wouldn't think I know that, I have to say I really don't give a rat's arse if they judge me judgmental.

A big long-winded example: no, I don't believe you should go to your crying baby if you're going to throw her out the window. Yes, I do believe the reason you feel that way is largely because you're either depleted in key nutrients or your body is unable to properly process what you take in. Does that mean I believe you're a bad person if you continue to eat MacDonald's twice a week? Uh, no, that's what happens when you don't have the energy to cook for yourself. So if I say *insert nutrients here* might help, or that studies show being low in *somesuch* can be caused by intake of *something else* or whatever. I'm not saying "you're bad if you don't do it or if you turn to meds", because I understand it's not that simple. But do I really need to water down the message and come across sounding like all sides are equal, you'll still be mentally ok if you persist in doing what you're doing (assuming a tendency toward depression or whatever). It's like doctors who say formula is just as good as breastmilk because they're afraid of making women feel guilty.

Guilt is what you feel when your actions conflict with your ideals. Not someone else's.

Most of my views are extreme. I have a vision for my descendents that I am trying to live towards.That doesn't make me a bad person. I'm certainly not "following the crowd", I've never had any use for people who do things based solely on someone else's actions. I don't meet my own ideals all the time, and I'm actually okay with that. I'm human.
I have realized that my "causes" are all selfish - I'm concerned about my great great great grandchildren (even just about my own DNA), so environmental concerns are big with me. So I get frustrated sometimes when others do things that slap Mother Earth in the face. Even being anti-spanking is selfish - it's about the assault on my own fragile psyche when I have to see/hear/think about it.

Yep.

I asked this question a while back. What should MDC be then? Can only people within certain boundaries post? I am probably extreme on some issues in some people's minds and mainstream in other areas. I never feel judged or like I am not good enough in those mainstream areas. They are choices I have made for a reason and I am happy with them. There are other areas I am trying to improve upon. I appreciate learning from the people that are where I want to be. Or even past where I want to be.

I guess I see no point in the exaggerated whining. Why do you care if I chose not to use "logical consequences"? I do not post that people who do are bad bad bad. I post my reasons, when asked. I post suugestions, when asked. I never crash onto a thread and start stomping that anyone who is different than me is wrong. And I very rarely see that from anyone else. Of course, on a message board this big, you are going to run into confrontational people on BOTH sides, but I think the vast majority of people here are respectful. And one could view this very thread in the same light. I will not say I am "offended" because I am not. But I do feel like it is purposely belittling to highlight certain subjects and that calling people that hold those views fanatical. How is that any better? So ignore the stuff you do not want to read about and move on.

[jazzharmony]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

Guilt is what you feel when your actions conflict with your ideals. Not someone else's.

What a fantastic sig line that would make

[RumiWithAView]

Originally Posted by HerthElde

So, what's the deal here? Those of us that actually do hold some extreme views in our heart of hearts must put a disclaimer on everything that we write 'i believe' on that also states '

Honestly, I don't profess to have all the answers on what is the "right" way for people to behave on message boards. I understand that some people are just naturally more abrasive than others. I also think it is easier, at times, to treat people a certain way on here because they are strangers whom we'll never meet.

I am a definite newbie on these boards and don't know all the ins and outs. I know tolerance works both ways and that people with strong opinions should be respected as much as those that try to temper their responses so as not to offend. However, I also know what the effects of feeling overly judged are. When I found out my soon-to-be firstborn was a boy (by the evils of ultrasound : ), I started wondering about circumcision. I come from a rather mainstream family and community, so my initial thoughts were "of course I'm going to circ", but something kept nagging at me about it. I started looking into it many places, here included. But I never felt comfortable posting my questions here because of the tone of the posts I read. At times, I felt I could sense the rabid foam coming from barking mouths of certain posters. People posted that they would disown family members for choosing to circumcise and that stunned me. It made me feel that even the fact I was waffling about the decision meant I was a terrible person in their eyes. How dare I even be concerned about "locker room trauma"? Why should I let DH have a say? That sort of thing. It wasn't until I met with other people IRL and in other forums that had admitted to struggling with the decision that I could finally feel okay with my concerns enough to squelch them. (I don't know if that makes sense, but it's how it happened.) In the end, I'm so happy that I've decided not to circ. I feel wonderful about it. But I also think it's important to remember that if you practice a little acceptance and open-mindedness, people might feel comfortable enough to discuss their concerns and have them answered. I just think that sounding militant can be very alienating, and if the point of an intactivist is to save as many foreskins as possible, they might want to consider their approach.

[HerthElde]

Originally Posted by RumiWithAView

But I also think it's important to remember that if you practice a little acceptance and open-mindedness, people might feel comfortable enough to discuss their concerns and have them answered. I just think that sounding militant can be very alienating, and if the point of an intactivist is to save as many foreskins as possible, they might want to consider their approach.

I know what you're saying here - IMO, a lot of it is that a lot of those (angry!) people are speaking out of self-defense. It's like a psychic assault on them and causes a reactionary response. I was guilty of it myself recently in a spanking debate on another board - I managed to completely muddle the point because of my anger. I experienced it here when I first posted on the vax board as well, so I do know what you're talking about. I just ignored the tone and looked through it to the actual message (although I know that I was fortunate to be in a state of mind that I could do that).
At the same time, when someone is feeling vulnerable, they also have a tendency to perceive malice where there is none. That's what I find frustrating. Noone can talk about the risks of choosing a c-section (choosing without medical reason), and how crazy they think that decision is if it's just for convenience sake, etc, without someone chiming in to say their c/s saved their lives or they feel judged or whatever. Or talking about problems with formula and someone chimes in to say "you're calling me stupid because I was formula fed".
Both of these things are problems.
Maybe MDC should have a subforum on effective communication in activism or something.

[Yooper]

Rude, nasty, "yelling", name-calling, etc.... is against the user agreement. It is pretty easy to report anything like that. What I see in this thread is that people want posters that happen to be at the "extreme" end of any topic and have the "audacity" to post about it should be quiet and go away. So you get rid of those people and start chipping away at the next layer. Soon you are on babycenter. While I do not think it is ever OK to come onto a thread and purposely make people feel bad, I do think that people who post on a NFL board should be aware that NFL topics will be discussed and that anyone coming on here stating that they do things that are not NFL/AP should expect to have that challenged. Like I love Taco Bell. I eat there up to once a week. I am happy with that decision and not looking to change it. But I am not going to come on here and expect everyone to pat me on the back and tell me how wonderful Taco Bell is when i know full well that it is not healthy, not natural, bad for the environment/workers/sprawl, etc...... I do not discuss it at all on the board because there is simply no reason to. It is not NFL. So you like disposables/circ/CIO/Walmart......? Great. This is not the place to declare your love for that and expect pats on the back.

I personally come on here to learn, to grow, to see new perspcetives that are in line with NFL/AP. Are other people here for different reasons? Am I missing the boat?

[karina5]

[QUOTE=Yooper [I]Like I love Taco Bell. I eat there up to once a week. I am happy with that decision and not looking to change it. But I am not going to come on here and expect everyone to pat me on the back and tell me how wonderful Taco Bell is when i know full well that it is not healthy, not natural, bad for the environment/workers/sprawl, etc...... I do not discuss it at all on the board because there is simply no reason[/I] to.
QUOTE]

AHA, Your secret's out now!!! LOL. I think many of us have something we do that is not 100% nfl/ap. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Oh. And like you, I enjoy learning so many new things and different perspectives from the board!!

[karina5]

Originally Posted by Yooper

Like I love Taco Bell. I eat there up to once a week. I am happy with that decision and not looking to change it. But I am not going to come on here and expect everyone to pat me on the back and tell me how wonderful Taco Bell is when i know full well that it is not healthy, not natural, bad for the environment/workers/sprawl, etc...... I do not discuss it at all on the board because there is simply no reason to.

AHA, Your secret's out now!!! LOL. I think many of us have something we do that is not 100% nfl/ap. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

Oh. And like you, I enjoy learning so many new things and different perspectives from the board!!

[PatchyMama]

While I do not think it is ever OK to come onto a thread and purposely make people feel bad, I do think that people who post on a NFL board should be aware that NFL topics will be discussed and that anyone coming on here stating that they do things that are not NFL/AP should expect to have that challenged. Like I love Taco Bell. I eat there up to once a week. I am happy with that decision and not looking to change it. But I am not going to come on here and expect everyone to pat me on the back and tell me how wonderful Taco Bell is when i know full well that it is not healthy, not natural, bad for the environment/workers/sprawl, etc...... I do not discuss it at all on the board because there is simply no reason to. It is not NFL. So you like disposables/circ/CIO/Walmart......? Great. This is not the place to declare your love for that and expect pats on the back.

I think I have said that same thing on a past thread that was similar to this LOL. Tho I think I said I loved McDonalds It isn't about who is or isnt 100% perfect in the NFL/AP way... no one is! It IS about respecting what this board is about and what the purpose is and realizing that some subjects are going to be challenged here and that it is not a personal attack on the poster, but a respectful discussion. Discussion is always useful, we learn and grow through it. If there were not people here 4 years ago promoting what I at the time thought was "extreme" I wouldn't be the parent or person I am today.

Obviously if someone is violating the UA and attacking a person personally or name calling it should be reported tho... but if a discussion is respectful then no personal offense should be taken. People are talking about actions and choices, not who you are as a person.

[jamsmama]

Originally Posted by caligirl

Instead of listening to my own gut, I was trying to keep up with the "AP Jonses", and it just wasn't working for me any longer. I felt like I couldn't breath.

This phrase sums it all up for me. You will NEVER feel good about what you are doing if you are always trying to "keep up", because you are not being true to yourself while doing it. You are trying to be true to someone else's guidlines for living....how unfair to cheat yourself like that. It is so unfortunate that our society has taken away the right to just go with our gut insinct (thanks to the kajillion parenting/discipline,etc. books out there). Whatever happened to "just being?" Just "BE" ladies! No need to list all of your AP accomplishments, just live them.

I find so many times that these things (AP/NFL/EC/BF/blah, blah, blah) become a competition to so many. Heck, there are people on here who are competing with the amount of posts that they have. Are they just posting for posting sake? Are you APing for APing's sake or do you believe in it?

I think it is incredibly unhealthy to consider yourself anything other than just a human being, because that is really all that we are and nothing else. Stop with the labels and pour that energy into taking care of yourself and your family instinctually. If we truly love isn't that enough?