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The Granola Extreme - Page 14

post #261 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
Can't believe this thread is still going! Hasn't this horse been flogged?
How is that a helpful post in any way? Obviously the horse has not been 'flogged' for other people. Nobody is obligated to contribute. I actually think this is a very important discussion for this community to have.
post #262 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuller2 View Post
It's like when you go to a restaurant and order a veggie burger and everyone else gets meat. You don't have to say ONE WORD about vegetarianism! or anything connected with food! and someone will make a comment.
This definitely happens... but I usually use it as a chance to inform others of factory farming. I don't get on a soapbox or anything, just politely tell them why I choose not to eat meat. Whatever they do with the info is their choice, but it's amazing how many people have the idea in their head that their meat comes from animals that spent their lives frolicking in a farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
People with strollers give me the evil eye when they see me wearing my baby.
This really could just be people being curious. Until a few months ago, I had never even seen a person use a sling. I'm sure she saw me "eyeing" her, but I assure you it wasn't evil. I was just amazed and interested.

Has anyone ever read the book Momma Zen. The author writes of this comparison phenomenon. It's pretty interesting.
post #263 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
FTR, I don't cloth diaper because I'm too lazy and despise laundry. I have no problem admitting that. I used to CD and now I don't. Kudos to those of you who do--maybe someday I'll rejoin you. I doubt it because I like my Huggies, but it could happen.
If everyone was so confident in their decisions like that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
post #264 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
FTR, I don't cloth diaper because I'm too lazy and despise laundry. I have no problem admitting that. I used to CD and now I don't. Kudos to those of you who do--maybe someday I'll rejoin you. I doubt it because I like my Huggies, but it could happen.
I don't do bottles because I hate washing up and I'm too disorganised
post #265 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxsmum View Post
I want to have CHOICES and OPTIONS to do whatever I want and I want my work to be valued. This is what feminism means to me.
: This is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. Feminism to me is the freedom to choose without having to defer to a man or become 'manly' to do anything, which I suppose is just autonomy really.
post #266 of 327
It could be that this is one of those things where when you are the person who does the thing that other people aspired or wanted to do but didn't they HAVE to tell you why.

I run into this with people I know who have not had children. I can't tell you how many stories I've gotten from people who seem to think they need to explain to me why they didn't have any. The ex-bf who loudly talked to everyone in the area about his vascetomy and how he'd be glad to talk to anyone's partners about it was amusing. Or how they have cats/dogs instead of children (I've taken to telling them that my DH is allergic, so I guess we had to have babies).

On here though - well this is a discussion board ABOUT these issues. People are comparing notes because that is what a topical messageboard is about.

The reaction from the "less-extreme" people could also be because it may come off from some that anyone who is not extreme doesn't "belong" here. You DON'T hug trees, have bunnies of light, think tofurkey is evil because it mimics meat, think even cloth diapers are too unnatural, etc? Time to LEAVE!!
post #267 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefoot View Post
: This is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. Feminism to me is the freedom to choose without having to defer to a man or become 'manly' to do anything, which I suppose is just autonomy really.
But feminism is NOT -depriving babies of their birth rights because hey "if mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy".
post #268 of 327
No, I don't think feminism is about whatever choice you want- the word choice can really get corrupted. But I think with AP there is a real danger of mother's rights and needs getting completely sidelined to an unhealthy extreme.
post #269 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
If everyone was so confident in their decisions like that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
This is very true.
post #270 of 327
Uh-oh I should have been clearer.

The OP questioned the compatability of AP and feminism. I am talking about choice as in if I choose to bf and bake cookies for example I am able to make that choice - it has not been forced upon me even though to some it may seem to be a 'traditional' unemancipated role.

In the UK at least there was a feeling during the 80s that if one put family before oneself that was stabbing feminism in the back because feminism at that time only seemed to see the role of wife and mother as a subjugated one.
post #271 of 327
Maybe I've been reading too much Tao of Pooh, but does labeling others, coming down on others for not being crunchy enough, for "dabbling in the mainstream", intellectualizing the phenomenon of having a vagina and being a respectful, loving, attached parent, guilt-tripping and feeling guilty for one's minor transgressions, not because you feel your actions were out of line, but because you fear the horrified expressions of shock and subsequent cold shoulder from your crunchier-than-thou "friends"....

Does any of this make one a better parent? Educating others is just the act of giving them information and letting them decide what to do with it. Support is just offering love, respectful advice, and a consoling shoulder when needed. I thought educating and supporting on the AP/NFL lifestyle was what MDC was for? Maybe my assumption was wrong. AP/NFL'ers are already a minority amongst parents. Why go to the trouble of creating dissension amongst the ranks, creating ultra-crunchy-cliques where people who don't cloth diaper or indulge in the occasional pizza or a monthly macaroni in cheese...FROM A BOX! (EGADS) don't belong?

Even people who come here from a diametrically opposed viewpoint should be met with natural human respect - one does not educate and support through guilt, hate, and doomsaying.
post #272 of 327
With respect to the OP's original question of whether practicing the ' granola extreme' is compatible with feminism, I'd have to answer that it depends on which strain of feminist theory you adhere to.

For example, cultural feminist theory embraces gender differences, and celebrates these differences as a source of women's power. Cultural feminists believe that women are essentially more 'nurturing, relationship-oriented and intuitive' than are men.

OTOH, mainstream/popular liberal feminist theory, or even postmodern feminist theory argues that it is the essentializing of women, which is precisely the source of women's subordination.
post #273 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neoma View Post
Maybe I've been reading too much Tao of Pooh, but does labeling others, coming down on others for not being crunchy enough, for "dabbling in the mainstream", intellectualizing the phenomenon of having a vagina and being a respectful, loving, attached parent, guilt-tripping and feeling guilty for one's minor transgressions, not because you feel your actions were out of line, but because you fear the horrified expressions of shock and subsequent cold shoulder from your crunchier-than-thou "friends"....

Does any of this make one a better parent? Educating others is just the act of giving them information and letting them decide what to do with it. Support is just offering love, respectful advice, and a consoling shoulder when needed. I thought educating and supporting on the AP/NFL lifestyle was what MDC was for? Maybe my assumption was wrong. AP/NFL'ers are already a minority amongst parents. Why go to the trouble of creating dissension amongst the ranks, creating ultra-crunchy-cliques where people who don't cloth diaper or indulge in the occasional pizza or a monthly macaroni in cheese...FROM A BOX! (EGADS) don't belong?

Even people who come here from a diametrically opposed viewpoint should be met with natural human respect - one does not educate and support through guilt, hate, and doomsaying.

post #274 of 327
Yeah, I don't think it was the intention of the OP to create dissention among the ranks, or to incite discussion that some mamas don't 'belong' here because they don't fulfil the requirements of 'ultra-crunchy' AP'ers/NFL'ers.

As with any phenomenon, or perceived 'social movement', it is only natural to evaluate it from whatever lens we choose to view the world--feminism, in this case.
post #275 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
How is that a helpful post in any way? Obviously the horse has not been 'flogged' for other people. Nobody is obligated to contribute. I actually think this is a very important discussion for this community to have.
This conversation can go on unless the posting violates the UA. Let's try to reign in the sarcasm please. Alot of people are enjoying this conversation
post #276 of 327
Well, I guess I like hearing from the "granola extreme" on this site because in real life, I just don't know that many people that are granola extreme. I like reading info from people who don't wash their hair, who don't use diapers, who are still breastfeeding their 6-year olds. I might not do any or all of these things but for me it is still refreshing to get these points of view.

What I do not like is reading what is just plain BAD or WRONG advice to others in the name of attachment parenting or natural family living. Telling a mother that she should not be leaving her 2-month old baby with its father and should instead put the baby in a car seat for an hour or 2 while she does errands, all in the name of attachment, is just bad advice. Telling a mother who has not slept in a year that she has to keep her child in the room with her and that "co-sleeping can still work for you" is bad advice. Telling a mother whose baby cries all the time and has been consistently losing weight over weeks to keep up the work with the breastfeeding and not to give in to supplementing with formula is bad advice.

I can handle granola extreme. I can't handle doling out bad or wrong advice.
post #277 of 327
I am sure somebody here knows much more about this than me, so please be gentle if I

In any social movement, isn't it the very small, "extreme" fringe group which helps shift the mainstream? It's kind of similar to third-party politics. The Libertarians, say, don't really expect their Presidential candidate to be elected, but because they run one, people will be exposed to ideas they otherwise might not encounter.

I mean... Walmart sells organics now... despite the paiful irony of that, IMO it indicates a cultural shift.

On a personal level, it is never healthy to make ourselves into living martyrs for any unrealistic set of standards. But, maybe there is an important place for an extreme minority.
post #278 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
What I do not like is reading what is just plain BAD or WRONG advice to others in the name of attachment parenting or natural family living.
Okay, but - who made you the police of what constitutes bad advice? Further, who made you the protector of "the impressionables"? It might serve you well to give people a bit more credit. People give me stupid advice all the time, and I would be horribly insulted if someone came along and said "Don't tell her THAT! She just might do it! And we all know she's too weak willed to filter whether it will work for HER. Why, it could be a disaster!"
post #279 of 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzharmony View Post
But feminism is NOT -depriving babies of their birth rights because hey "if mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy".
I really like that- might have to borrow that quote

-Angela
post #280 of 327
I've been really hesitant about posting my thoughts to this thread, but here goes. I agree that the granola extreme is incompatible with feminism - and I like it that way. You see, I'm a dittohead wingnut. I'm listening to Rush Limbaugh as I type. Phyllis Schlafly's Feminist Fantasies is one of my favorite books, and I never miss her column. I came to NFL/AP as an enhancement of my conservatism.:

I'm also on the granola extreme. I uc'd alone in my bathroom. I use cloth diapers (which I hang out on the line) as a backup for ec'ing. We co-sleep in a family bed. I made sure to buy a sling that works with a child from newborn up to 18 months/ 30lbs. We'll be doing CLW and delayed solids. We didn't circ. In fact, we're on the extreme end for just about everything on MDC except vaccinations. I don't see any of that as inconsistent with my opposition to feminism. While I may be extreme, I'm certainly not doing it to keep up with the Raynbow Arwen Starrs. I'm not doing it to keep up with the Goldwaters, either. We do what feels right for us as a family, which for us means old-fashioned family living and instinctive parenting.
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