choosing against orthodontia?

[lanamommyphd07]

Hi all--I have a question that hopefully someone knows some links to:
I am the product of "stellar" dental care through life that has cost me thousands of dollars as an adult. I have flouride stains from the excellent flouride treatments, teeth that don't align because of braces, extra space in the back of my jaws from extractions, you name it. Here's my real question--when my child reaches an age to choose orthodontia or not, what are some links, sites, information for me to make an informed "anti" decision? It seems that every teen in my area has the same exact smile--all going to the same orthodontist. And it seems as though function is sacrificed for "american pretty standard". Any thoughts or ideas? Does orthodontia strike anyone as a beauty epidemic?

[Leilalu]

I don't have any links for you...but I tend to be pretty anti-establishment when it comes to doctors of any sort unless I thoroughly research it out.

One thing I am grateful for however, was the widening of my palette. I had braces for over 2 years, and while it was not all pleasant, I love my smile now and I can sing beautifully even as an adult. So its not all bad. I see it more as a way to try and help fix what the nutrition of our foremothers/fathers left us with. I found a perfectly holistic dentist here that we love, recently. And if my children need an ortho in the future, at their consent I will find a holistic one as well. They are generally not as invasive.

Hope you find the links you are looking for!

[JaneS]

Well I really needed braces b/c I had buck teeth and I'm very glad I had them!

Now that I know the connection between nutrition and width and height of your palate, I see the need for orthodontia very differently. Any evidence of a high palate, narrow jaw, crooked teeth in toddlerhood should be grounds for super nutrition.

There is a little evidence that diet will indeed effect width of palate as the child grows:

Dr. Pottenger writes that "the highest grade of raw milk, raw meat,
raw vegetables, and fruit products obtainable" are in the clinical
work. He points out that "we have been able to improve the
physiologic response of children who have previously been developing
in a deficient manner" similar to the experimental animals which were
fed upon heat-processed foods. Even defective facial growth has been
improved, and Pottenger states that "when additional growth
stimulation is applied to certain deficient children at the right
time, before they have attained facial growth, material changes in the
contour of the face can be brought about without the application of
surgical appliances."

Palate widening has many other good effects besides tooth beauty. My DS has "inherited" (read "inherited my nutrient deficiencies while ttc/pg") my small mouth/jaw but so far his teeth spacing look good and are in fact improving on a raw milk and other high nutrient diet. Here are some collected link on palate expansion and related stuff.

"Is it Mental or is it Dental?" http://www.westonaprice.org/healthis...velopment.html

http://www.icnr.com/main.html
http://www.icnr.com/alf/alfanatomy.html
http://www.icnr.com/OrthodonticRelapse.html

http://www.drfarid.com/alf.html

http://www.aago.com/

[Leilalu]

Thanks for the links Jane!!!!!

[guestmama9916]

Originally Posted by JaneS

There is a little evidence that diet will indeed effect width of palate as the child grows

Jane,
Do you have any more info on this? I've been giving my 3 yr old raw milk for the last 6 months. I just noticed recently that his arch looks slightly wider and that was before I read this thread. I thought maybe it was just wishful thinking but now I'm encouraged that his narrow arch could be getting better.

Kim

[grisandole]

OP, I totally agree. Unless there is a true problem, my kids won't receive such treatments.

[glendora]

Whatever you do, get those wisdom teeth out early if there isn't enough space. I'm a teething 27-year-old, and it isn't fun. My siblings have the same issue.

[Leilalu]

Come to think of it, I have noticed a difference in dd's teeth!!!Since raw milk, her front teeth do seem to be curved a bit wider, and her arch is looking nice. I just pray my kids won't have the same crowding issues I did!

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by kimbernet

Jane,
Do you have any more info on this? I've been giving my 3 yr old raw milk for the last 6 months. I just noticed recently that his arch looks slightly wider and that was before I read this thread. I thought maybe it was just wishful thinking but now I'm encouraged that his narrow arch could be getting better.

Kim

Besides Price's Nutrition & Physical Degeneration which doesnt' talk specifically about improving palate, just that quote above from Francis Pottenger. Not even writing to the Price-Pottenger Society revealed much more, they didn't recognize the quote. And rather snottily wrote that it would cost me $1/hr to research it without promise of finding anything! To me this seem vitally important to our children, and something that no one else has addressed.

I found another short reference in an article of Pottenger's online:
Nutritional Aspects of the Orthodontic Problem
http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?req...e=04&page=0184
(click on Print version above)

He had a clinic in Monrovia CA that treated both children and adults, chiefly lung disorders. Pottenger was very focused on the value of raw animal foods due to his cats' studies.

I would say Weston Price's nutrition recs would be the most detailed along those lines... but he was more focused on preconception nutrition and how it changed bone structure with high minerals and fat soluble vits. WAPs writings on diet changes in children dealt with cavities mostly in Nutrition & Physical Degeneration... but also children recovering from serious rickets, growing normal bone structure. I don't know if any unpublished papers dealt more with improving facial structure, I understand there is a lot the WAPF has yet to catalogue.

Just think how much growing your child's skeleton is going to do until they become an adult. Super nutrition has to be able to make a difference in the palate as they would a child with rickets and straightening leg bones. And esp. before and during puberty growth spurt I would imagine.

Interesting review of N&PD:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0203...ppnf/PPNF.HTML

[WC_hapamama]

Originally Posted by glendora

Whatever you do, get those wisdom teeth out early if there isn't enough space. I'm a teething 27-year-old, and it isn't fun. My siblings have the same issue.

Mine came in when I was 19, and oh lordy, that was miserable, but I was a broke college student and couldn't afford dental work at the time.

[guestmama9916]

Originally Posted by JaneS

Just think how much growing your child's skeleton is going to do until they become an adult. Super nutrition has to be able to make a difference in the palate as they would a child with rickets and straightening leg bones. And esp. before and during puberty growth spurt I would imagine.

Good point! And thank you for the links! I'm really excited about this possibility. Its another reason to keep giving my family traditional, nutrient dense foods (which isn't always the easiest thing do!)

Kim (drives 5 hrs roundtrip once a month for raw milk )

[guestmama9916]

Originally Posted by JaneS

I found another short reference in an article of Pottenger's online:
Nutritional Aspects of the Orthodontic Problem
http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?req...e=04&page=0184
(click on Print version above)

Here's a link to the full text! I haven't read it yet but will do so right now.

http://www.angle.org/pdfserv/i0003-3219-012-04-0184.pdf

[HRC121799]

Originally Posted by glendora

Whatever you do, get those wisdom teeth out early if there isn't enough space. I'm a teething 27-year-old, and it isn't fun. My siblings have the same issue.

Oh my gosh I sooo second this! If I'd had mine taken out when my dentist suggested, when I was a teenager, I would not have gone through a lot of the he** I did with teeth issues, because my mouth would've had more space! Instead, I did the "teething thing" sporadically over 5 years and finally had all 4 of them out out at once a few months ago.

[Shiloh]

my dd and I decided against it as her overbite was there but not so pronounced that I thought the damage to the enamel on her teeth (my braces destroyed mine) wasn't worth the risk, her teeth are straight but the overbite. If she changes her mind later on we'll reconsider it but my old denist said dentists are usually hesitant to recommend it for purely cosmetic purposes as it can make the individual teeth less healthy overall.

[orangefoot]

In the UK we are going in the opposite direction; there are definitely fewer kids with braces here now than when I was a teen back in the late 80s.

My son has teeth all over the place including baby teeth at 14. He has had a couple of baby teeth out but other than that the ortho is just watching him. He says that nowadays they realise that teeth and gums have 'memory' so even if you have braces for years eventually your teeth will misalign again anyway. So they now concentrate on making more room and letting teeth go where they will to some extent.

It only took about 5 years post braces for my teeth to return to slightly crossed at the front and I too am teething periodically with an impacted wisdom tooth which will ned surgery to remove. My dentist says to wait until I get constant pain as the operation can cause nerve damage and they let newbie dentists practice on you once you are under anaesthetic and your jaw is dislocated......................