young teen in cybersex trouble

[poppymum]

Hey mamas and papas, I'm asking here for some advice for a friend of mine. She has a 13 year old daughter whom she just pulled out of school to homeschool because the girl is having a lot of social problems with her peers. As far as anyone knows, she has not been sexually active and is rarely unsupervised away from home. She does spend a few hours a day home alone with her elderly grandfather, whom her family is taking care of.

Yesterday when my friend went to pick her daughter up from a girlfriend's house (the friend is also 13) she and the friend's father walked into the room where the girls were and they started scrambling to close out the windows open on the computer. The dad told them to step away from the computer and he opened up their messenger service and read the archives. There they discovered that the girls had both been having very explicit online sex for several weeks, with presumably both teen boys and adult men.

Now, my friend's daughter has her own email account, but has always been required to provide her mom with the password and every few weeks her mom checks up on her account. Today when she tried to access the account, the password was changed and her daughter refused to tell her the new one. Also, while my friend was at work this morning (she cleans an office early in the morn, while the kids are asleep and the grandfather is in charge), her daughter, despite being grounded, sneaked onto the computer...we suspect to erase emails and archives.

My friend is at a total loss. She has always kept a pretty close eye on what kids of tv, movies and music her daughter was taking in, but the terms and descriptions in the sex messages made it clear that her daughter has been exposed to an array of pornography at some point.

She and her daughter already have a hard time relating and she doesn't want to put more distance between them, but she can't figure out what to do to keep her daughter safe, and her mama heart is broken.

Any ideas?

[laohaire]

Well, I thought I'd weigh in from the kid's perspective (no, I'm not a kid, I'm 30, but it wasn't that long ago when I was 18 and the Internet was brand new).

I didn't do too much on the Internet cyber-sex-wise, but I did a little. I was curious. I didn't seek it out but when people came to me, it was like "hmm, what's this? let's see..." It felt safer than exploring IRL.

And it seemed it was basically all everyone did online, if you chat with people directly.

I would have been mortified if my parents found what little illicit stuff I was engaged in, but it might have benefitted me to have a little "chat" with them (even though I was 18). These points come to mind, off the top of my head:

- "We understand that you're curious / this feels safe / etc."
- "We're concerned that you not put too much time and energy and effort into this... and that you understand that sex is nothing like this, and we don't want you having expectations about it that aren't healthy.... we are VERY concerned about predators, and here's why... " etc.
- If she says "but mom... I KNOW not to give my name etc.... I'm perfectly safe" she needs to be reminded that these are very experienced adult men out there skillfully preying on girls JUST like her, and they are often very successful. And that "we" (mom and dad) know she's a very smart girl, but she's up against some very experienced people out there that could easily hurt her.
- And that predators aren't their only fear.. but what she might be learning that isn't accurate, or how she might be feeling about it, or how she is developing a sense of herself and her sexuality that isn't based on reality.

Last important thing is - her dad was TOTALLY RIGHT to do what he did, and I'm saying this as a person who VERY much respects the privacy of children and teens.

I was a good kid and my parents trusted me totally (and with reason). But with the Internet new, they didn't understand it, and they let me do things that, in retrospect, were dangerous (I met more than one person, both male and female, that I met online, and they knew it - that is, I would tell them where I was going and who I was seeing). I didn't get hurt, thankfully, but I made some STUPID choices, like I met one guy and we went to his apartment... god, I'm not stupid, but I trusted him... he didn't do anything, thankfully, but my parents didn't warn me to be thinking about situations like that. If I had thought ahead, I would have made decisions ahead of time about what I would and would not do, so I wouldn't be hesitant and then just giving in because I couldn't decide. (For the record, I never did ANYTHING with anyone I met in real life, just did things like met for lunch or whatever... or I just borrowed a CD from the guy who brought me to his apartment... I was just plain LUCKY).

Those are just my thoughts.

ETA: There's nothing her parents can do or say that will make her think, Gee, they are totally right! It's not going to happen. But instead of just punishing her, they need to be talking to her about concerns, sharing things they've heard or learned, asking LOTS of specific questions like "What would you do if....?" (that's a really important one, I think... it will get her thinking about that stuff, and serve her well in more ways than one). They should also keep in mind that she probably didn't seek it out herself, but she's getting bombarded with it, and of course at this point she's "into" it. But just to keep in mind for perspective.

[Leta]

Um, how 'bout yanking Internet access? This would prove to the daughter that her parents were serious. After some point when trust was rebuilt, consider getting Internet back?

[leah martinez]

That is so scary...

My mother went through something similar with my teenage sister a few years back and she password protected the desktop to keep my sister from being online while she was gone. She allowed her to use the computer when she was able to supervise. My mother's best friend went throught the same with her daughter and would take the keyboard with her when her daughter was home alone to keep her off the internet. I am sure some might think they were being way extreme but they were really afraid their daughters might meet one of these "boys" offline and could end up in real trouble. I wishh kids understood the danger that it really out there.

I am not sure what I would do in that situation (and thank goodness I have a little while before my boys are of age) it is just sad because there are so many creeps lurking around the net and taking advantage of young girls all the time.

[bugmenot]

Keylogging software.

If the password is changed, or email is deleted, that stuff doesn't matter. And the person being spied on, all that stuff is picked up on.


Of course, there is a morality issue involved, especially if you're open about everything else.

But once in a while, you need to overstep your own rules to keep your own family safe, KWIM?

[paquerette]

I think that I would be more concerned that she knows how to be safe (not give out identifying information etc) than to make a big fuss about the sexuality aspect, kwim? Whatever other discipline or talks take place, a chat about sexual thoughts and feelings and curiosity being a normal healthy part of growing up is definately in order.

[sunflwrmoonbeam]

I totally agree with paquerette. As a teen, I did do some of the cyber sex thing, and honestly I was totally fine. I had no personal information online, and had no intention of meeting these people. Sexuality is normal, and she's exploring it in a completely non-physical way. Just make sure she knows how to be safe online.

[doulamomvicki]

I do not agree this is normal curiosity. This is a 13 year child who is being preyed upon by adults. She is being sexually abused via on-line and that is not ok.

I have "NetNanny" on my computer. http://www.netnanny.com/ It is worth the money. The family should find a good conselor who deals with teens and sexuality.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by poppymum

Hey mamas and papas, I'm asking here for some advice for a friend of mine. She has a 13 year old daughter whom she just pulled out of school to homeschool because the girl is having a lot of social problems with her peers. As far as anyone knows, she has not been sexually active and is rarely unsupervised away from home. She does spend a few hours a day home alone with her elderly grandfather, whom her family is taking care of.

Yesterday when my friend went to pick her daughter up from a girlfriend's house (the friend is also 13) she and the friend's father walked into the room where the girls were and they started scrambling to close out the windows open on the computer. The dad told them to step away from the computer and he opened up their messenger service and read the archives. There they discovered that the girls had both been having very explicit online sex for several weeks, with presumably both teen boys and adult men.

Now, my friend's daughter has her own email account, but has always been required to provide her mom with the password and every few weeks her mom checks up on her account. Today when she tried to access the account, the password was changed and her daughter refused to tell her the new one. Also, while my friend was at work this morning (she cleans an office early in the morn, while the kids are asleep and the grandfather is in charge), her daughter, despite being grounded, sneaked onto the computer...we suspect to erase emails and archives.

My friend is at a total loss. She has always kept a pretty close eye on what kids of tv, movies and music her daughter was taking in, but the terms and descriptions in the sex messages made it clear that her daughter has been exposed to an array of pornography at some point.

She and her daughter already have a hard time relating and she doesn't want to put more distance between them, but she can't figure out what to do to keep her daughter safe, and her mama heart is broken.

Any ideas?

My first thought is to eliminate the computer completely. Unplug it. She needs to be restricted from using the system until she can prove she has enought responsibility to use the machine properly.

I would also try talking with her about what is happening...if they are close enough. Not sure past that....off to think some on it.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by laohaire

- "We understand that you're curious / this feels safe / etc."
- "We're concerned that you not put too much time and energy and effort into this... and that you understand that sex is nothing like this, and we don't want you having expectations about it that aren't healthy.... we are VERY concerned about predators, and here's why... " etc.
- If she says "but mom... I KNOW not to give my name etc.... I'm perfectly safe" she needs to be reminded that these are very experienced adult men out there skillfully preying on girls JUST like her, and they are often very successful. And that "we" (mom and dad) know she's a very smart girl, but she's up against some very experienced people out there that could easily hurt her.
- And that predators aren't their only fear.. but what she might be learning that isn't accurate, or how she might be feeling about it, or how she is developing a sense of herself and her sexuality that isn't based on reality.

I agree with these points.

[fishface]

I did the same thing at that age and I was NOT being preyed on. I never gave any identifying information nor did I give my age, and if I did then I made up an age about 10+ years older. (hey, I'm that age now! woo hoo, wishes do come true.) It wasn't out of fear but out of a desire to BE older and taken seriously, if that makes sense. It doesn't sound like she's being preyed on. It sounds like she's curious but needs to know about safety issues regarding that. Nip this in the bud before she starts driving/making friends who do drive.

ETA: I agree w/ yanking internet access either entirely or unless supervised. I also agree w/ not making her feel ashamed of her sexuality but rather approach it from the safety angle.

[hottmama]

I had lots of "cybersex" at that age, from about 11-12 through probably 15 (which is when I started having real sex). I was never molested or anything as a child, no one gave me porn (although I found it on my own, thanks to the internet), I just had normal sexual feelings and it provided a safe way to release some of those (aside from frantically masturbating multiple times a day). I am soooo glad my parents never caught on! How mortifying!!!

Now that the parents are aware, of course they need to respond somehow, but I don't think her behavior is unusual at all, nor dangerous. She is probably claiming to be older than she really is, I'd always claim to be 16-19. So she's not doing this with pedophiles... most of the "men" claiming to be in their late teens and 20s are probably boys her age!

[Kavita]

There are ways to track someone online that do not necessarily require you to have directly given an address or name to someone. So just because you do not directly give out information online on that location does not make it necessarily anonymous.

Here is some excellent info given by the FBI. They have some very helpful info in this brochure, and on their site, and there is also an internet safety site for teens.
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/pguide/pguidee.htm

[kwren23]

i would completly cut off the kids connection to the internet. password lock the computer. erase her email accounts. its because of things like this that my son (who thankfully has a limited intrest in girls and sex at this point) can ONLY use the internet while supervised. i check his email accounts every once in a while but dont do it often because i KNOW what hes doing online, i am sitting right behind him when hes at the computer. when the little one gets old enough to be online you can bet she will also have me (and her father as well) breathing down her neck.

there are times and places for personal space and online is NOT one of them. there are a lot of sick twisted people out there who prey on inexperienced young girls, and there is really no way of knowing who you have got when youre talking to someone online. it could be the 13 year old boy who he says he is or a 60 year old nut. you just dont know. its one of those times when it is better to be safe than sorry.

[fishface]

hottmama, your experiences sound a lot like mine! (except I didn't have sex til age 20) I'm a year older. I do agree w/ the strong possibility that the people she has been chatting with are likely boys her age. (really, they could be anyone)

[Demeter9]

I've been online for quite a bit longer than most people. About 20 years. I've been to geekmeets of old 300bauders. ETc.

The ladies who think it is fine are uninformed of the multiplicity of ways that they can be tracked. That quite a number of the people are predators, whether their age or not.

Do take it seriously. Having been online for as long as I have, and knowing exactly how dangerous it can be, and knowing the computer security most people use.....I plan on NEVER allowing my children unsupervised access to the 'net at my home. And I'll try very hard to instill stranger danger for it at other people's homes.

You don't know how deep they can go. And someone else being 13 doesn't mean they aren't a predator. Most predators do get their start early. I wouldn't be amenable to my child being on of the ones they experiment on.

[Jessy1019]

I agree with those saying it's normal curiousity and the sex aspect isn't a big deal . . . also that she isn't necessarily being preyed on. I never had any parental supervision with the internet around that age, but I was certainly capable of blocking people who were annoying/disgusting/boring me.

I think going over the rules about not giving out personal information without parental permission is a good idea but otherwise? The internet's one of the safer places in which to explore sexuality.

[merpk]

Stuff like this terrifies me.


My parents just bought our kids a computer (our oldest is b'H 9) and we have put it in the kitchen/living room (it's all one room). That's it. No computers in bedrooms or anywhere where there's nobody else.

Have been trying to find out about something like netnanny but got very little response in the TAO forum. Maybe it was my mistake for calling it "website filter program" instead of "cybersex filter" or somesuch.

[oceanbaby]

My oldest is only 5, and the internet didn't arrive until I was a young adult, so I don't have personal experience with this. However, my concern upon reading the responses about taking away the internet, putting spyware on, etc., is that they have access to computers everywhere. School, the library, friends' houses, cafes, etc. I would think that instead I would be working with her big time to realize the serious ramficiations of this.

I remember one time I was a young teen, maybe 12?, and my grandfather was visiting with his RV. He had a CB radio (is that what they were called?) in his motorhome. One afternoon my girlfriend and I were playing around with the radio, and somehow got connected with a trucker on his radio. He was asking us all sorts of questions - how old are we, what do we look like, etc. I remember specifically lying to him about our age. The conversation went as far as him actually asking us where we were so he come come visit! We panicked at that point and hung up. It of course never occurred to my parents to talk to me about the dangers of flirting over CB radio!

Maybe doing something like sitting down with your child in a chat room, putting out a message that you are a 12 year old girl looking for someone to talk to, and letting her experience firsthand the kinds of messages that will inevitably appear. Let her know that her sexual exploration is totally normal, but that she needs to find a different outlet, because online is just not safe. Even if she doesn't reveal personal information (which can happen accidentally, mentioning landmarks, school mascots, something in the local news, etc.), a savvy person can track the origin of an email address. I think she needs to be treated in a respectful way, all the while being made explicitly aware of what could happen because of the nature of the internet, not because what she is doing is inherently wrong.

[doulamomvicki]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby
Even if she doesn't reveal personal information (which can happen accidentally, mentioning landmarks, school mascots, something in the local news, etc.), a savvy person can track the origin of an email address. I think she needs to be treated in a respectful way, all the while being made explicitly aware of what could happen because of the nature of the internet, not because what she is doing is inherently wrong.

:
My dd's very good friend used to go in various chatroom (without her parents approval) and met who she thought was a 16 yr old boy. Really it was a 37 yr old man. He found out where she went to school and where she lived just using the type of information oceanbaby listed. Anyways, he tried to abduct : this girl last spring. Luckily someone saw him trying to force her in the car and saved her.

most of the "men" claiming to be in their late teens and 20s are probably boys her age!

According to the detective on dd's friends case the opposite is true. In the sex sites older men will claim to be younger to lure the kids to them. Given the fact that this child may already have emotional issues, she is at very high risk for being a victim of a sexual predator.


I just want to add something. I know I risk sounding old fashion here but I would never wish for my daughter or sons to have their first sexual experiences with some stranger let alone some stranger over the internet. It should be with someone they are in a mutually caring relationship with. Just my 2 cents.