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And it happened to me. Update on post 96 - Page 8

post #141 of 192
Great post, Nemmer.

TP, I've been thinking of you all day. I hope you were able to go to church and nurse. If you did, don't think any of us underestimate how much courage that took.

post #142 of 192
TP,
I had this issue about a year ago in our branch. I was not nursing at the time but two other woman were and I was in the RS presidency.

It was a similar situation but the woman that were nursing were doing it with a blanket and someone complained and said that he knew what they were doing under the blanket. I did research found the article that has been posted and took it to the branch president and stake president (it was addressed on a stake level). I also informed them that by asking a mother to cover up or move they were violating the law (we live in florida). They came back and said a woman could nurse when she wants but please be modest but said that modesty was what we felt was modest.

I also think you need to go higher up. I could say more but so many others have already said what I was thinking.
post #143 of 192
When I told my dh about all that's been going on, his response was, "Are they next going to tell her she can't nurse in Relief Society (the women's meeting) because there might be someone there who is a lesbian?"

Of course, he was being completely toungue in cheek about the whole thing, but it really helped bring the ridiculousness of the whole issue to light. Why should a nursing mom be responsible for someone elses' reaction to it? Are all the women in the ward being lectured about wearing modest clothing?

I'm thinking about you TP, and I hope everything went well today.
post #144 of 192
Oh I'm so sorry you are going through this. I totally agree with the moms above that say to flip it around on him, start questioning the other men and the young boys of the congregation. Be brave, be strong you can do this! Ask him why is doing exactly what God intended for us as mother to be doing, frowned upon and looked at as a dirty thing? It doesn't make sense to me. : Keep us updated, I'd really like to know what happened. Hugs to you and your DH.
post #145 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by intorainbowz View Post
On to the Porn issue. Simply put, I have LITTLE sympathy for members caught in the porn trap. They were taught better and knew better but chose to risk an addiction.
This is completely off topic, but I have known converts to the church who were taught or who believed before that porn was fine, and really struggled to break the addiction when they joined the church. Not that it excuses laying the blame on TP, I'm just giving another perspective on this. Not everyone is a lifetime member.
post #146 of 192
I was referring to life time members, sorry for the confusion.

I need to add... I feel for those trapped in the grip of this. I just don't want women shamed because a man made choices. I don't want to worry if someone at church is looking at me like that or my baby. They made choices.

I've read her post a couple of times... I keep seeing more worry from her bishop for the person with the porn problem than a mother and baby. He seemed almost unconcerned that she might leave but was very concerned about the porn person.
post #147 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacymom View Post
When I told my dh about all that's been going on, his response was, "Are they next going to tell her she can't nurse in Relief Society (the women's meeting) because there might be someone there who is a lesbian?"
There is a lot of truth to what your DH said. You can be gay or lesbian and still be an active member, you just can't be practising gay or lesbianism (ok I made that up). The church views it as something that has to be overcome. Some view it as an addiction, one may think about it all day every day, but they have to just deal with it and live a straight life.

I want to hear an update on how your church day went today, I have been following your story.

As an inactive LDS I am saddened that something such as NIP without a blanket would be looked down upon. I did notice when I went to an LDS baby shower how the woman who were nursing babies were using a blanket, but didn't think it was that big of a deal. Someone did a make a comment like "Take a picture of Gena NOW! HAHA" while I was nursing, with no blanket, my then 5 month old. I just smiled and ignored it.
post #148 of 192
Quote:
Someone else has deviant behavior and YOU have to be made to feel ashamed??? OH right....you're the filthy woman tempting a man. Oh the burden we bear trying to keep these helpless men pure. It's too bad that they have no controll over their wicked ways - and it's entirely up to us to keep them good and pure.

Alright alright.....obviously I have issues with the church and patriarchy in general and I realize that's not the real issue here. I'll try to stick to the point.
As I read beyond this post, I see that this is Exactly the problem. One male member of the ward has a problem and Tuansprincess is being held responsible for making things more difficult for him.

What about his own responsibility to keep his head out of his pants?

It also occurs to me that sitting in either the very front or the very back would solve the problem, as long as dude with problem isn't in the same row. If you're in front, all the rest the congregation can see is your back. If you sit in the back, no one sees you at all, IF they are facing front and paying attention to the service. If that is not the case, why?
post #149 of 192
I was thinking the same thing as Meiri. Why not compromise on location in the chapel with the bishop? Most LDS chapels are set up with doors on either side and three "columns" of benches. Perhaps she can say that her family will only sit on the right side of the chapel and the person(s) with the problem only sit on the left side. That way it will keep the offended party away from the breastfeeding family with minimal chances of him seeing the breastfeeding act. Also it would protect the privacy of the person who is offended so the bishop won't have to say "make sure you're not seated near Brother X."
post #150 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacysmommy View Post
I was thinking the same thing as Meiri. Why not compromise on location in the chapel with the bishop?
Not sure why she should have to compromise at all. She is doing nothing wrong. She is ALREADY sitting in the back. The problem is, if she DOES compromise, she could very well begin to feel like she GAVE IN.

If she can compromise without that feeling, more power to her, go ahead.
post #151 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by intorainbowz View Post
He seemed almost unconcerned that she might leave but was very concerned about the porn person.
I've never been LDS, just attended youth group stuff with some LDS friends in high school, so my opinion has nothing to do with the religion itself, but... It sounds to me suspiciously like the "porn person" is either himself, or a family member. Someone he values more than the OP's family. Does he have sons or a brother in law who seems like a likely culprit? I hope you can find a new ward, because that one sounds corrupt.
post #152 of 192
The recent conversaton about whose problem it is has brought to mind a scriptural passage from the New Testament. I posted that in Spirituality. FTR, I basically agree that it isn't TP's problem, but this scripture just gives a different perspective on it.
post #153 of 192
In RS yesterday the lesson was about Elder Bednar's talk on not being offended and all I could think about was you.

The biggest thing I got from the talk is to "Be a Duck"
Another words just let things roll off your back. Don't let the Bishop get to you like he has to me You've already handled this situation so much better then I ever would have.

You haven't done anything wrong! The lesson I mostly thought about the Bishop because has someone who is judging and offending someone else the teacher asked us what we could do to not be the person who offends(such as this Bishop) and answers were:

Being teachable
understanding the other persons feelings
not judging
look at the other perspective
etc.. I can't remember them all but the being teachable was what really stuck out

So keep nursing not as a statement but because you are being a duckand you won't let someone who is ignorant about the responsibilites of motherhood get to you.

For reference here is Elder Bednar's talk
post #154 of 192
Personally I could never attend a church were I no longer felt comfortable. I am sorry you have to go thru this
post #155 of 192
Inactive member here- I am so disappointed in your bishop. You must go up the chain until this is resolved. Can you imagine the President of the Church saying that nursing w/o a blanket inspires lustful thoughts in people? And telling a woman to cover up?? I am really quite disgusted with the whole thing. I have seen so many women in my different wards nip and no one ever cared. Or if they did they knew they should keep their mouth shut because they were in the wrong. Please Please Please do not let this go. The Area Authority is the step above the SP right? In my area the Authority lives in our stake so it is easy to see him if you need to. Maybe you could even write a letter to the general RS presidency and see what the response is from them?
You will be in my prayers.. (and I haven't done much of that lately so I guess your problem is having some benefit to others )
post #156 of 192
thought of you in church yesterday, TP.
post #157 of 192
I guess I should take my previous thoughts a step farther.

Given that Tuansprincess is already in the habit of sitting in the back, I don't see it as a compromise to say that she will continue to do so. Mr.Problem needs to be instructed to sit in front where he can focus, as he's supposed to be anyway, on the service. She doesn't need to change a thing, which to me, means she's not compromising. Her personal feelings mileage may vary of course.
post #158 of 192
I told my hubby about this, and he said it sounds like there hasn't been much cultural progress in Idaho. His LDS family lived in Idaho in the 70s and 80s, and butted heads with church leadership when hubby's dad grew a beard. They seriously debated whether to "let" him keep it and still attend meetings. A beard was too hippy I guess (and thinking of my ILs as too hippy for much of anything is the height of absurdity). We wish you strength in this, because even if church higher-ups tell your bishop and the RS woman to leave you alone about where you nurse your child, it's unlikely to change their personal views on it, and they probably have the weight of local cultural norms behind them. I hope they do realize the error of their current thinking, by way of the graceful way you handle them trying to impose on others their incorrect and twisted opinions of a perfectly normal biological process that need not be hidden from anyone's view.
post #159 of 192
TuansPrincess, I've been following this thread but haven't posted yet.

I just wanted you to know that I support you in whatever you did this last Sunday. If you nursed openly in the Sacrament Meeting, Good for you! If you couldn't bring yourself to do it this week, that's fine, too. I know you have a lot of pressure on you right now.

Please post again and let us know what happened.

I agree with others that say those with the porn problem are the ones who should be told to sit in the front and keep their eyes on the proceedings. You do not "own" this problem - THEY do.
post #160 of 192
TP, I have been thinking about your situation and what you've had to deal with so much since I've heard about it.

First off: it is not appropriate how the Bishop has handled things period. He needed to come and talk with you personally and not send it through the RS Pres or any other sister in the RS.

Secondly: people are faulty and while I have a strong testimony of the gospel I do believe that your Bishop has made some serious mistakes in handling this in the way he also talked with you. He is bringing in his personal bias based on *nothing* scriptural or doctrine and is refusing to acknowledge true doctrine regarding the matter. Maybe the SP has this view as well in which case that's why there are Area Authorities.

I have never suggested this to anyone before ever and consider myself to be quite a strong member of the LDS church and agree in sustaining and supporting our leaders...I would very strongly suggest that you send a letter or contact your local Area Authority.

This has turned into such an ugly situation and I don't know the specific laws of Idaho but they are probably violating them.

You are *not* responsible for another's thoughts, that is completely ridiculous and against the doctrine of our church which believes in free agency. You are feeding your child for heavens sakes and he obviously just has a very "50s" viewpoint of bf'ing (my own father...not LDS...has these views as well and always associates breasts with only sexuality). I hate to say it but I think the Bishop has an issue with it as well, it really sounds like it. Also the SP has heard only the Bishop's feelings re: this, I think it would be good to talk to him as well but if you feel too fatigued I would just go straight to the Area Authority.

A woman should never be asked or requested to bf using a blanket at church, period. The way that the Bishop has handled this has created an us vs them type of situation which church should never be.

We are in a newly created ward and happen to have a wonderful Bishop. He spoke at our first Sacrament Meeting and one of the things he said was, "Please know that I and my counselors *will* make mistakes and I hope that you will please be patient with us." People are imperfect. I do think that it's important for you or any of us to find a way to forgive those who have grossly wronged us and there's no doubt that many people in this situation have. At some point, some day he/they will realize how ridiculous this whole thing is/was and it will probably not be in this lifetime.

Some how you are going to try to keep yourself spiritually strong in the mean time and not be consumed with being angry with this man and the other ones. It may not be now (I certainly would have trouble....what am I saying, I'm not even in your ward and I've had to pray about this b/c I am so insensed) but hopefully later.

s I do think that the situation needs to be addressed for the sake of not only you but the other women who will/are in the ward. The Bishop does need to be instructed on proper doctrine from an "authority" that he will respect.
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