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Nurturing Magazine. - Page 2

post #21 of 124
Thread Starter 
Lucy, if that is what you like to do fine! I have no issue w that. I do a lot of things in my life that my feminist sisters frown on. The issue is, to me, the whole condescending tone of the articles. It offends me to condemn homosexuality and women's rights in the same breath that exalts attachment parenting, which is one of the few true and gentle things left to us.
post #22 of 124
Lucy, my point is not that sahm are bad. I am just like you. I am a sahm, and I cook and clean because I am the one with the time. My point is that wohms are not all evil and selfish. They can be, sure, but so can sahms. But to generalize that all women woh are bad is just evil to me and *very* UN-Christ-like!
post #23 of 124
Are you guys objecting to "Mommy Wars"?
I liked the article. I think anyone who chooses to have children should stay home and take care of them. My mother went through a divorce when I was a baby, so unfortunately I was shuffled around because she had to work. I do not think there is anything wrong with that obviously, but a couple who choose to have a child and then both work full time are not parenting. Why have children if you are not going to raise them? I worked in childcare before I had children and it was so sad to see these parents who both had well paying jobs drop there child off at 7 am and come to get them at 5:30. If you want a career then great, but don't have children too. I wish there was never the big movement of woman going out and working - now when we choose to stay home with our children we are looked at as weird. I was called "possesive" the other day by a man we know because I choose to spend the time with my children. What has this world come to when we are criticized for being a parent to our child/children?
post #24 of 124
Mamapie-

You are a breath of fresh air! I feel I am back in a woman's studies course when I read you- thank you!

Quote:
Really, ladies, come on!! Those of you who stay home: if you worked outside the home, I am willing to bet you would STILL be doing most of the housework. Tjose of you who do work outside the home, when you get home, do you pitch in w childcare/dinner etc or is your husband standing there wrapped in saran wrap holding a martini???????????? %$^@ ME!!
Actually, studies show that women who work outside the home get less help with the housework than their stay-at-home counterparts.

My husband and I have divided the housework, and along far more traditional lines than I would ever have imagined, but he still contributes tons. And I think he is more invested in our home and family life because he washes diapers, vacuums, and does the dishes. I still do a greater percentage of the indoor work but that is only because I want to spend time hanging out with him after Eli goes to sleep, not watching him wash windows or scrub toilets.

And I certainly leave all the wood chopping to him- but I get to double dig all of our garden beds.

-jeanie
post #25 of 124
mamapie, I don't think I said that working moms are evil, maybe you meant the article said that, but I didn't get that feeling from the article either. Anyway, I certainly don't think moms who work are evil, no way, just that this is the choice I made, and I do think there is a certain responsibility with it.

I did read the article fast, and if they are saying that wking moms are bad, thaen I do not support that.
post #26 of 124
Thread Starter 
Besides how is it fair that I do all the housework, dinner and dishes alone? Housework is a 25 hour a day job. I don't get evening and weekends off... and nurturing a family is the responsibility of the ENTIRE family. Not the mama alone. The nuclear family will be the great downfall of civilization. It is unnatural to do all the caretaking alone.
post #27 of 124
Thread Starter 
Naturalmama, in all respect, being critical of women who "choose" to work is as bad if not worse than is them being critical of you and I. I see your point: leaving a 3 week old in daycare can be upsetting. But who are we to judge? Besides, the economy of my country DICTATES that many women need to continue to work outisde the home. So does nature. Cavemamas did not stay home. Frontier mamas even did not stay home in the traditional sense of the word. How about turning your desire to see moms where they do belong, w babies, onto corporate America? Why can't women bring their babies to work? Isn't that what slings are for?? Why should we be forced to seperate when many of us are forced by capitalism to work? I know a woman who has to work two jobs to keep a roof over her family's head and food on the table. Why should she be forced to be that productive? I am getiing OT here.
post #28 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucy
mamapie, I don't think I said that working moms are evil, maybe you meant the article said that, but I didn't get that feeling from the article either. Anyway, I certainly don't think moms who work are evil, no way, just that this is the choice I made, and I do think there is a certain responsibility with it.

I did read the article fast, and if they are saying that wking moms are bad, thaen I do not support that.
It was me, Lucy, and you didn't say it, but it *was* the underlying thesis of every article. I just wanted to be clear that I am not arguing that sahm are less important. If I thought that I wouldn't be one.

This is not directed at Lucy but at the magazine: I just will never ever agree it is okay or *Christlike* to put down women who have to or choose to work while they raise their kids. No one but that woman knows why she works. I have a friend who is a sahm. She badmouths another friend who works, but what she doesn't know is that that woman works because early on her husband cheated on her. She is afraid of being financially dependent on her husband in case it happens again. Is she choosing to work? Yes. Is she evil? No. Does this mean she doesn't love her kids or that she isn't a great mom? No.

As far as raising kids, it is the mother's love and devotion that matter, not whether you sah or woh. It is what works best for you. My dh was raised by a single wohm, and he is the best man. Conversely, ds's dad was raised by a married sahm, and he is a louse. It helps to sah to have more time with your kids, but I know many wohms that would make great role models.

It is not anyone's place to judge another's life. I dislike this magazine, not because it celebrates the sahm but because it demonizes the wohm.

I hope I have been clear. All my anger is directed toward the magazine, not any poster here.
post #29 of 124
yes, the entire family nurtures each other. If I am sick, dh will gladly take care of me, when he comes home, dd and he play "roughhouse" with each other. We try to do things as a family on the weekends. Is this the nurturing you mean? I don't really see what it has to do with housework. If dh and I are both home, and dd calls out in her sleep while we are say, watching a movie, he is just as likely to go comfort her.

What do you mean mampie, the nucleur fam will be the great downfall of civilization?
post #30 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by mamapie
How about turning your desire to see moms where they do belong, w babies, onto corporate America? Why can't women bring their babies to work? Isn't that what slings are for?? Why should we be forced to seperate when many of us are forced by capitalism to work? I know a woman who has to work two jobs to keep a roof over her family's head and food on the table. Why should she be forced to be that productive? I am getiing OT here.
First of all, it is your topic so get as OT as you can.

Secondly, I applaud your challenge. I think the USA needs to catch up with the supposed "backwards" countries that allow women to do both.

Frankly, if I could have found job that allowed me to bring my child and provide me a decent wage, I would have been less interested in remarriage.
post #31 of 124
"The nuclear family will be the great downfall of civilization"

Miss pie, I was with you until this...could you explain??
To me the nuclear family, whether it be two Mommies, two Daddies, a single parent, a Mommy and a Daddy, is the corner stone of civilization..
Just curious,
peggy
post #32 of 124
laralou, yes, I am sorry abt that. I read Mamapie for some reason, when it was your response. Thanks for clearing that up. Believe me, I know you aren't arguing that sahm's are less important.
post #33 of 124
Thread Starter 
I live in a nuclear unit, let me say that first. The concept, however, is new. It is unnatural. In Christ's time, for example, humans lived as they were intended too, in exxtended families, open villages and even tribes. Women and men shared work. Yes, roles and responsibilities were divided, but the load was shared by ALL. The nuclear family came about w the industrial revolution, when families split up and moved to where the factories were. At this time, things like bottle-feeding and hospital birthing came about because women were seperated from their mothers, sisters, elders, etc, and had no web of support. Women began to work outside the home at this time in jobs that were too dangerous to bring baby with, hence the need for 'daycare.' Ideally the children would have been cared for by other members of the family or tribe but now the care was given by strangers w bottles of formula/cow's milk.

The nuclear family taxes our resources... we as a society need more of everything... instead of a compound of people sharing a fence, the group is split and a lot more fences are needed. And it is harder on everyone as the burden is on us alone.

The funny thing to me is the biggest defenders of the nuclear family, the people like Pat Robertson and Nurturing Magazine, that want us to stay home and not work, are also usually very right wing, very Republican, very capitalist and thus perpetuate the very things that force us to earn money and be productive when indeed, we should be able to stay home with our babies if we choose.

People like this are anti-welfare, force disadvantaged moms to put their kids in daycare and then complain about the crime rate among the lower classes! Complain about working moms! It would really benefit us all to remember that not everyone is middle class.
post #34 of 124
mamapie, I really like your last post. I think all the time about how we started out in tribes. Women banded together and supported each other. If a man dumped a woman, she wasn't on her own, but had a whole tribe/family to uplift and support her. We were more interdependent as a group but less dependent on a specific individual which can be a scary thing if that individual is controlling or abusive. In many ways, it was much safer than separating like we do now. Child and spousal abuse could easily be ferreted out. We were more psychologically safe because we were less likely to be isolated.

I also agree that it is ironic that the conservative right is supported by huge corporations who advertise constantly to convince us we need to buy, buy, buy.
post #35 of 124
Thread Starter 
Right Laralou. My dad calls me a socialist and a communist, but that is not it. However, until we turn a bit back to our roots, and reconcile civilization w nature, we will have a lot of problems as a whole.
post #36 of 124
I don't know what tribes and villages you guys are talking about , but the ones I've read about did not respect women. They were largely patriarchal, and if a husband did not want his wife anymore she was an outcast if not stoned to death. The work was shared, but in much the same way it is today. Ther men were hunter gatherers, the women stayed put tending hearth and children, preparing food and making garments.
The nuclear family is in part due to the industrial revolution, but not the cause of it.
IMHO, the nuclear family is our only hope for change now. How we raise our children to be citizens of this planet, is the only way this planet can be saved.

peggy
post #37 of 124
Thread Starter 
Peggy, I am nearly done reading a book called the Continuum Concept. If you'll give me your address I will mail it to you as soon as I am done with it.
post #38 of 124
I read it sweetie.
post #39 of 124
I'll have to do some research and get back with you on that. If you had some links, peggy, I'd be happy to read them.
post #40 of 124
Biologically equipped?

Yes, I believe I am biologically equipped to breastfeed, attachment parent, cosleep, yada yada yada.

But I was not born with a toilet brush at the end of my arm.

I always tell dh...NOTHING turns me on more than him washing dishes or cleaning the toilet. When he does these things I feel cherished and loved. Hubba hubba.
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