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Nurturing Magazine. - Page 5  

post #81 of 124
Okay, I'm going to actually comment on the magazine (I think everyone else on this thread has long since moved on, but I wanted to make a point I didn't see anyone else making.)

This is not a magazine that has, for instance, Pina Para la Nina as a target audience This is definitely not a magazine that is trying to convince feminist, working mothers that they're bad people who should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. It's a magazine that is trying to convince traditional, Christian mothers, the sorts of women who send checks to Phyllis Schlafley and feel that it's a sacred and godly calling to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, that they should wear their babies, tandem nurse, and cosleep.

Though I'm not Christian, I lurk occasionally on a board for Christian AP mothers. (There are a number of Mothering.com moms who are regular posters.) If a secular AP mom feels that she's under pressure from society to put her baby in a crib, bottle-feed, and CIO, you have no IDEA what sorts of pressure church-going Christian mothers get from their communities. Many of the mothers on this other board have posted about how every other parent at their church does Ezzo. And, it's not surprising, when you realize that Ezzo's original program was called "Growing Kids God's Way" and was emphatically Christian (Babywise is a secularized version). While Sears has written a book on Christian parenting, he doesn't have the entire pre-packaged set of classes, videos, etc. that GFI has. And more's the pity.

Although I find the attitudes in "Nurturing" magazine to be offputting (or even repulsive -- the "Cleaning Bathrooms" one drove me nuts!) I think we're missing the point when we condemn it out of hand. We should be celebrating the fact that socially conservative, fundamentalist Christian mommies are discovering attachment parenting!!! Not complaining because there are socially conservative, fundamentalist Christian mommies out there
post #82 of 124
Thread Starter 
Live and let live but in the name of AP Christain mommies there was indication that I as a feminist and believer in gay rights am somehow wrong. Sorry, sick baby and unclear point. Do you see waht I mean? Fine, if cleaning the house alone brings one fulfillment. Don't criticize the feminist movement for expecting more out of life is how I feel about this magazine.
post #83 of 124
"This is definitely not a magazine that is trying to convince feminist, working mothers that they're bad people who should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. It's a magazine that is trying to convince traditional, Christian mothers, the sorts of women who send checks to Phyllis Schlafley and feel that it's a sacred and godly calling to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, that they should wear their babies, tandem nurse, and cosleep."



I think that is a very good point.

peggy
post #84 of 124
I am all for the message that "sahms are great" but the underlying message is that "we are great because we are better than those evil working mommies." Sorry but teaching superiority isn't positive no matter what. The only decent AP article was the extended bf one. I don't think teaching Christian women to judge others and hold themselves as superior because they don't work is worth it. Let's just send them Mothering which teaches extended bfing and tolerance towards others.

That being said, I can't stay here and keep repeating myself. There is always going to be someone to disagree with me, no matter how scintillatingly persuasive my arguments, besides we are going out of town this weekend. So ya'll keep it up but I gotta go.

And NM, THANKS so much for saying publicly that you think wohms are okay. Even if you don't see what I think is glaringly obvious, that is all I really wanted to hear.
post #85 of 124
Oh, I forgot to say...

peggy, I got some books at the library that I am going to try to read this weekend, so I'll be ready for a pre-nuclear-family debate next week. Unless I find out that you are right of course...
post #86 of 124
Quote:
Originally posted by Nursing Mother
Also I never thought I said that working mothers were not O.K.: did I really say that???
No, NM, you just said you liked "Mommy Wars" which had a very "working-moms-are-bad" tone. ******Please******, reread the article. Look for the reference to leaving your kid at day-care being the same as putting them in an orphanage.

This has got to be my final word, okay? If I don't go pack now, dh is going to leave me and then I'll have to go back to being one of those *evil* wohms!
post #87 of 124
well put Naomi!
Maybe some of you don't realize that most christian mommies are working moms. This is not a working mom againest sahm issue. It is not a christian mom againest feminist issue. I think it comes down to a mommy issue and supporting good mothering in whatever form it comes it.
Bashing working moms won't help those moms be the best they can and it wont' help the sahm to feel better about herself either. So CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!
I'm concerned about the christian bashing I'm hearing. I'm also concerned about feminist bashing coming from the magazine articles. But if we are quick to take offence to what we hear instead of finding common ground there won't be anyone to encourage AP because we will all just be fighting amongst ourselves.
post #88 of 124
Thread Starter 
I for one am not bashing Christianity. At all. I am bashing the content of Nurturing Magazine. I think the content and tone of that magazine is as judgemental and un-Christlike as it can be.

Just my opinion. And yes, it is a judgemental one.

edited to say: Barbara, you made some excellent points about mamas supporting one another. I would gladly support a reader of Nurturing if she needed it, even if she wholeheartedly believed in that way of life. Fine.

But would she support feminist me, SAHM though I am? Or God forbid my mama comrades that are GAY and work aoutside the home? No... and that is where the hypocrisy of the situation lies.
post #89 of 124
I said earlier that I agreed with NM's FIRST post, and I do. I read two articles (I didn't read Mommy Wars) and liked and agreed with most of what they had to say. I think I see the same basic information, but seen through a different lens, perhaps, than some of you. I also read them rather hastily, so I may have missed some fine points that were glaringly obvious to others. This said, I am a Christian (mostly) AP mommy who is very happy to work outside the home (and a little in it too) and put my son in a wonderful daycare every day of the week. Although there are times that I want to stay at home all the time with him, I truly think I would go nuts if I did. I cloth diaper half time, buy half organic and half supermarket brand, breastfeed my 27month old, don't spank (in a country where over half the population will admit to doing so!), wore my child in a sling, and I'm hoping to have a natural VBAC with my next child. I also love my daycare, hate to cook, and don't do housework unless I have company coming over (I am married to a saint who is a French chef and actually likes to clean and even change diapers!).

I really agree with Naomi---
"We should be celebrating the fact that socially conservative, fundamentalist Christian mommies are discovering attachment parenting!!! Not complaining because there are socially conservative, fundamentalist Christian mommies out there "

When I go back to the States, I would hope I wouldn't be quite the wierdo I am here!! I hope someday I'll be a wierdo because I don't like to cook, and that's it!!

Michelle
post #90 of 124
Thread Starter 
Sorry, last post here from me: they should not be complaining that I am out here.
post #91 of 124
I liked it.

I guess I am a pretty conservitive Christian so I could really relate with thier point of view. it is soooo nice to see a Christian AP magazine. I don't agrre with everything it said but I don't agree with an equal amount of stuff in mothering. All the advice and stuff all seemed really gentle and affirming. A refreshing change of pace from all the ezzo style advice handed out in your average Christian Parenting magazine. Hopefull there will be some mommy who reads this and realizes she can live in a conservitive Christian world with traditional conservative values and raise her child in a more fulfilling way that what that community has offerd so far. Certainly not dangerous in any way.

It is a magazine geared towards Christians. Toward people who already feel this way. Don't read it if it offends you.
post #92 of 124
mamapie....I support you.

You are following your heart and loving your children.

We don't have to share the same lifestyle to encourage one another to be the best parents we can be.
post #93 of 124
I don't think that Christianity is being bashed in this thread. What is being bashed is the concept that a clean house or toilet actually determines your value as a human being (particularly as seen through the eyes of the husband). Also being bashed is intolerance.

I think it's fine if some members see acceptable truths in the articles and I also agree that in a world of Ezzo, it's good to have a source for AP philosophies. I'm just sorry that this source isn't maybe so "pure" in its intent. Why not bring in AP concepts without having to demean others? In fact, by bashing wohms or feminism, Nurturing has left itself fair game and open to criticism. Why can't there just be a quality AP mag for Christian moms that leaves out the political rhetoric? Really, isn't that what it gets into? Then I have to ask: For what purpose is it being introduced? You don't see Mothering Magazine bashing non-feminists. And while some may not agree with the more liberal Mothering articles, you cannot say that Mothering expresses intolerance for those who may not agree with those topics. Not to compare the two publications, but Mothering seems to do a pretty good job of striking common ground for parents from all walks of life. Maybe Nurturing isn't really interested in doing so, which is a shame.

Overall, I'm just saying that AP Christian moms (and dads) deserve better. To say "well, it's better than Ezzo" isn't really enough of a reason to support an inferior product.
post #94 of 124
Hello all.... I have been away for a few days
I did not mean to offend so many people - I am not saying a working mom is a bad mother. I am speaking for how I feel myself and could not possibly let someone else raise my child. When I was in childcare it broke my heart to see children who loved us as caregivers more than their own parents. I just knew I could not do that to my child ever. I know there are situations like death where single parenting is inevitable. My mom(divorced) was forced to work, as I said before and she is a great mom. I did not like the lifestyle, but I am still a good person as an adult (I think! ). I look at society today and how bad the situation is with our youth and wonder if it is due to lack of parenting and children being left without a parent when they need one. I don't know. Anyway, we all have to do what we have to do. I just can't imagine, and hope I never have to, pay someone else to parent my child.
post #95 of 124
"I look at society today and how bad the situation is with our youth and wonder if it is due to lack of parenting and children being left without a parent when they need one." not sure about that one. Some of the worst criminal types I have met along life's journey & the ones who are the nastiest & most abusive to women all had sahms. It's a whole new issue & I wish someone knew the answer so the problem could even start to be addressed. I still feel that it's the quality of parenting that counts. I am sure that the kids that loved you the caregiver more than their parents had issues far deeper in their families than just the parents working. I could say heaps more but that should really be another thread since this one is about a magazine.
post #96 of 124
Well said, Cat! Let's not accept the "lesser of two evils" but demand better.
You can support the AP at home mom without trying to advance your political agenda against feminists, homosexuals, and wohms.

BTW, Oceanmama and Peggy, I am starting new threads for points addressed by each of you.
post #97 of 124
Lara,
I hope you didn't misunderstand me. I'm getting the feeling you think I am against working Mom's...That couldn't be further from the truth. I was one for quite a while.

peggy
post #98 of 124
Thanks, Cat - I agree with everything you said!

I'm a Christian, and I object to the underlying theme in some of the 'Nurturing' articles...like the whole housework thing, etc.

But I think the root of it is this...these articles are coming out of a Conservative Christian mindset that believes that men are to be authorities in the home and that women are to submit to their husbands. Many (but not all, I hasten to add!) conservative Christians believe that the Bible teaches this, so that is how they live their lives. And it is one reason, I would guess, that among conservative Christian women, you aren't going to get the negative reaction to these types of articles that the rest of us have.

I'm not trying to start an argument/debate here - just trying to clarify why there might not be the negative reaction in some women that the rest of us have.

My two cents on the 'submission' thing - I believe that is the very LAST thing that Paul taught, as well as being the very VERY last thing that Jesus intended. But that's a whole 'nother argument.

If anyone is interested, you can PM me, and I have lots of stuff I can send you - researching what the Bible says on the submission thing was a crusade for me awhile back - started right after my Dad told me that 'It wasn't my place to tell my husband how I would like him to help me around the house' (!!!!!). And this was BEFORE we had children, and at a time when I was the primary wage earner (dh was in grad school). I love my Daddy, but honestly....
post #99 of 124
LOL
Carolyn, I just have to wonder what Bible your daddy has been reading...mine says nothing at all about "housework"

I think some of us(Christians) just take things a little too seriously!!

Maybe we can come up with some scripture to back up having husbands do all the toliet cleaning....LOL

Peace~
post #100 of 124
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