Adoptee Support, Take Two - Page 2

[Sarahbunny]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

Well adjusted does not mean always-complicit-happy-bunny.

I thought I heard my name and personality called.

[TigerTail]

http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/...May/mayds4.htm

A shame I don't feel comfortable posting about unethical adoption practices in Adoption, but so be it.

Interesting the bonuses, no?

[Tigerchild]

That article, if I'm reading correctly, is from 2000. Do we know that the federal government still will pay those subsidies?

I know the 'bonuses' to adoptive families of special needs kids have been cut drastically in many states. Given the current administration, and its disdain for any kind of social service program, I'd want to see how things stand now, or at least as of 2006, in regards to how many of these things are still in effect.

It is sad that if they're not, it's likely that it's because of politics rather than safety.

However, I would not be suprised one bit, if there was intense pressure to adopt out youngish kids of the right appearance and with no big special needs.

I dunno though. It seems to slam the adoptive families just as much as the government (even directly calling THEM money grubbing, basically). I don't believe that's altogether fair. It also has the mild implication of foster parents 'doing it for the money', which frankly I find as ludicrous as people who say that all mothers who end up relinquishing their children do so because they're incapable and didn't really want the babies/children in the first place. Do SOME people fit that bill? Well, I'm sure that they do, but it's grossly unfair and inaccurate to extrapolate that out to the rest of the population.

But you are right, any kind of adoption critique has a very high threat level.

I am just uncomfortable with this seeming to infer that the foster to adopt system is where the $$ is. In all my research, that seems to be the lowest tier, as far as moneymaking goes. HWIs closely followed by international (or maybe the other way around) seem to hold that honor. But they're mostly private and not funded by the govt. (unless you count a one time tax credit, just like a birth) so I guess one can make the case for it rising to the top.

[Emilie]

I think we need to tread lightly - I think there are alot of people watching and our kindness and acceptance is what is going to do the most good right now.
But I am a peacemaker at heart.....

I feel you TT. I do. Lets just be cool and see- this will be good for us all- everyone- some of the time.

[Tigerchild]

To note, I do understand what you're saying TT. And I have gotten that vibe in the past as well. However, we do seem to have a bumper crop of people willing to share their views and stand behind them, which hasn't happened really that I recall in the time I've been here.

I think it does more good to just keep going on and build on what's being built now, than it does to worry about past behavior. You're never going to win everyone, everyone's not going to win you. But holding grudges or just deciding that nothing's going to change tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I seem to notice you speaking out a lot more too. Well whaddya know? Let's keep it up, and see if anything good shakes down. It's going to take longer than a few weeks though, right?

[feyfollow]

Hi,

I know this is a thread for Adoptee Support, and I did not get a chance to look at the other thread, but has anyone on the thread ever had a good experience with their adoption? Now don't flame me please, as it is a wholeheartedly honest question. The reason I ask, is that I adopted my son 2.5 years ago (as an infant), and absolutely worry about his wellbeing as he grows up.

We are a newer adoptive family, and ours of course is more open (more so than our agency ever wanted it to be). However, sorry to say for my son, his BDad is deceased, his BMom had contact for 3 months and disappeared, and his paternal Grandma has recently shut down contact. I love his Grandma, and hope she some day starts talking to us again, but I think watching him grow may have been a little much for her at the moment. So, I have not pushed that. However, as my son gets older, I do have pics on his wall, letters, and cards to show him, but if there is no contact, there is no contact. I would have no problem with helping him find his BMom, and I know how to get a hold of his Grandma, but how I do worry that he will be bitter toward his birthfamily. I never want this, as this was an incredibly tough decision for his BMom, and I thank her every day. So if you had a chance to tell your parents how you wanted them to treat this situcation, what would you do? Or, have any of you actually experienced something like this?

TT I am sorry that you are so hurt. I do not know, nor would I ever pry into, what happened, and I do hope you find what you need. Alas, you are correct, adoption is a big business. However, it is not just by agencies. We were scammed out of money by 2 supposed BMoms, and our agency (whom missed this) was unforgiving. We also had a little girl for 10 days earlier last year, when her Mom called us, and threatened to kill herself if she did not get her back. She wanted to borrow money from me for some formula, diapers, clothes, and a car seat as she had no money or job at the time. Yes, I was upset to have to give her back, but it was her Mom. Asking me for money after she wanted her back hurt. I did not give it to her, but I did give her all of those things that I would not need anyway. It was just to make sure that she did not have any undue expenses for at least a month, and that baby had all she needed. However, I dressed her, kissed her, and prayed that she would have a wonderful life. As she loved by so many, it should not be a problem. All in all, those losses, plus our son's adoption, totaled around $45,000. We are not rich, and we are still paying on my son's adoption. We are looking into an international one now, and the agencies are not the ones taking most of the money, it's the countries and the facilitators in those countries. The average adoption of a foreign child is $27,000 (some higher and lower). This is higher than the majority of domestic infant adoptions, and Americans adopt 15,000+ children a year. The US gov't charges major dollars for application fees, visa fees, medical exam fees, etc. So again, yes very very big business. I never did look into the US foster care system.

It's not always sunshine enemas for adoptive Moms either....

[TigerTail]

Sigh.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by feyfollow

I know this is a thread for Adoptee Support, and I did not get a chance to look at the other thread, but has anyone on the thread ever had a good experience with their adoption? Now don't flame me please, as it is a wholeheartedly honest question. The reason I ask, is that I adopted my son 2.5 years ago (as an infant), and absolutely worry about his wellbeing as he grows up.

I understand that you are asking this without malice.

But yes, you are right. This is a thread for Adoptee Support.

If you go and read more on the adoption board, you will see the varying experiences we have had with adoption.

This is really not the place for us to answer questions not from adoptees.

If you post this question elsewhere, however, I may answer it. Or, to be very honest, I may not. I answer truthfully and give my experiences openly on the adoption board, and if someone hasn't taken the time to read them, then I may decide I don't want to go through it again, on a thread primarily aimed at adoptees.

[feyfollow]

Tigerchild thank you, and I will not bother again .

[blessed]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

...It's not until having children and being AP, that that timeframe makes me so sad. A month of what, you know? Laying by myself in a hospital bassinette? My parents always joked/bragged about how I never cried when they got me. Yeah, no sh*t, I bet I didn't. :...

I can barely process thinking about the first five days of dd's life. She was found under a bridge in the dead of winter, with snow covering the ground. She was dehydrated and suffering from exposure. There is a 'found' picture of her taken when she was processed into the orphange and the look on her face is just heartrending.

Dd came to us at one year of age. We were 'fortunate' to be able to tour the orphanage from where she came, meet the nannies who had cared for her primarily that first year, and also to visit her 'finding place' - the place where she had been discovered at about five days of age. It was painful to witness, but we felt strongly that it was important to collect those memories while we had the chance in order to be able to provide them for her later when she chose to look back.

We took lots of video footage, of course. A while back we got out the videos after dd had gone to bed and went through some of them. At one time we had started playing one of the orphanage videos while dd was in the room. But she reacted very badly, appearing uncharacteristically fearful and anxious, and had nightmares throughout most of that night. So we've chosen not to expose her to them again until she is able to indicate that she is interested in seeing them. We do keep photo montages on the wall which include pictures from her orphanage. And we talk openly about the fact that the nannies in the orphanage took care of her when she was a tiny baby, while we were waiting to come and get her. She's comfortable with this language and these ideas, so it appears.

Anyway, dh and I started looking over the videos one night. It's weird, in the footage, we appear casual, almost glib. Dh is cracking jokes and I'm walking around with this limp smile on my face. But as we sat and watched the video, and saw the conditions in which dd was living at that time, it made us both literally physically ill. We couldn't watch it. Dh got up and turned off the video and we just sat together and cried. I think it was maybe the second time I've seen dh cry in the thirteen years I've known him. The first was when dd was placed in his arms for the first time.

Folks seem really interested in putting people's words in the 'right' category, if there is such a thing. If you all think this doesn't fit here in this thread, let me know and I'll remove it.

[monkey's mom]

Thank you, blessed. Thank you.

[VegHipMama]

Originally Posted by blessed

Anyway, dh and I started looking over the videos one night. It's weird, in the footage, we appear casual, almost glib. Dh is cracking jokes and I'm walking around with this limp smile on my face. But as we sat and watched the video, and saw the conditions in which dd was living at that time, it made us both literally physically ill. We couldn't watch it. Dh got up and turned off the video and we just sat together and cried. I think it was maybe the second time I've seen dh cry in the thirteen years I've known him. The first was when dd was placed in his arms for the first time.

I was struck by this passage not only because it is beautifully written, but because it exemplifies a truism of adoption (like so many other subjects!): how we react, how we tell the story changes over time. At the moment of meeting, you HAD to hold it together. Now, you can allow yourself to feel the pain, the horror, and the sadness. In the same way, you are first teaching your child very gently about the nicer aspects of the situation, and then, as she gets older and starts having more complicated thoughts about her origins, then you're going to have to sit down and cry with her, too.

At least, in your case, it is obvious to everyone that she was rescued from a tough situation. I think, in some ways, that can make it easier. Neither you nor your daughter ever have to feel guilty for bemoaning the fact that the beginning of her life was hard. Of course, I'm sure there will be other difficulties instead. It's such a complex thing, to be torn up by whatever shallow roots are there and planted in (hopefully) better soil. Good luck!

(Just want to clarify that the phrase "(hopefully) better soil" is a general musing about adoption, not Blessed's family in particular! It's pretty obvious that her dd is MUCH better off.

[TigerTail]

Categories matter much less to me than having a place safe from the patronizing- I'm an old bat that has come through a long journey, & anything that smacks of treating me like an adopted 'child' is just too, too much.

Blessed, not that I want your post 'out' of this thread (I'm fine with it!), I just wondered if you'd post that again (& and apologies if you already have) in the Adoption forum. It's too powerful to lose in this little thread.

[blessed]

I appreciate all of you for affirming my feelings and experiences. It feels nice.

[blessed]

I appreciate all of you for affirming my feelings and experiences. It feels nice.

ETA: TigerTail, maybe we should move the entire thread over to Adoption forum? Everyone seems to agree that we are all integral components of this phenomenon of building and understanding families, and that we will grow and learn from each other.

And it seems as though we're all going to seek each other out here anyway, no matter where we might choose to post, eh?

[krystyn33]

I am glad that so many of us are feeling more comfortable in the adoption forum--I so enjoy reading eveyone's various perspectives... Still, that forum is intended for parenting issues and I think the purpose of this thread is different, although I personally welcome contributions from any triad member. I think the point is that this is a place where we can feel free to process feelings about our experiences, separate from the issues of parenting--more to do with our own "personal growth" I guess. Anyway, I am glad for both places!

[krystyn33]

[QUOTE=Tigerchild;7388659]
I would submit to you that it is reasonable to have angst now and then. About anything. If you are in an intense period of mothering right now, I feel it would be more unusual for this to NOT trigger any sort of questions or sadness or mixed feelings, than for you to be thinking about this more. It's okay to have your viewpoint change. It's okay to have your sensitivity change! It's okay for them to flip flop!QUOTE]

TC, this post was very well expressed--you tend to frame complicated issues very thoughtfully...

I feel my "angst" more keenly at some moments and less at others, and sometimes I feel a bunch of things at once: gratitude/love for my family relationships through adoption/ anger at unjust adoption practices and ideologies/ sadness at losses--my own and those of others/ frustration at the closed system in which I am stuck/ and hope that people are working to make things better for families. You are right that one thing does not rule out another.

[krystyn33]

A bit OT perhaps, but if I may I would like to share a dream I had last night. It seems obvious to me that on some level having become a mom is bringing up a few things that I am processing at least unconsciously...

Anyway, I dreamed that DS had been kidnapped and the feeling of loss was just terrible--I ached for him so intensely, I was half mad from it, it was physically consuming. It turned out that an infertile couple had taken him--actually the husband was some evil genius mastermind type and was planning to take him away in a rocketship he was building. The wife was just kind of lost and sad about missing her own child... By the time I found him he was older and different--his hair had grown in darker than I expected and the light in his eyes had dimmed; in fact I wasn't sure that he was my child, and again I was consumed with that feeling of loss... Woke up with a huge ACHE in my heart and I almost woke DH for some comfort.

Anyway, this was totally a dream and I certainly do not regard a-parents as kidnappers. And before bed I was reading a bit on the vax forum--we did not vax DS and yesterday my MIL expressed a concerned suprise so I am gearing up my defenses on that. I read some very tragic accounts of damage done by vaxes and I was thinking how devastated I would be if that light in DS was dimmed for any reason--he is so bright and engaged by the world right now.

Now that I know what motherlove is my perspective on adoption is gaining a new depth. I understand better the love of a-parents for their children, and I think that dream put me in touch with the profound losses of b-moms, although the real expereience would undoubtedly be much harder and more complicated. I just hope I never take my son for granted--his presence in my life is such a gift and I want to cherish that every day--especially on those inevitable days when he will drive me crazy... We've talked a little bit about freezing up emotionally b/c the pain of our losses was too much to bear or not safe to explore. Well, being a mom is certainly helping me melt...:

[Tigerchild]

I welcome anyone who wishes to contribute here...unless their opening volley is yet another stereotype, however innocently meant, and they openly admit to not bothering to read elsewhere. (Or demonstrate that they haven't).

I would prefer to have a thread where people come to it with a basic understanding that this is support for adoptees (who have just as many viewpoints about adoption as anyone else), where adoptees will say things that may or may not hurt other people in the triad but are honest reflections and feelings (so, by reading it, non-adoptees are clearly choosing to read things that may challenge them), but where the adoptees do NOT have to revisit the same old revolving door questions that those of us who dare to be open with not-so-nice experience constantly get bombarded with.

When I post for mixed company, I take pains to make sure that I add in 'for me', 'my experience', 'I don't speak for everyone' blah blah blah. In an adoptee support thread, I wish to assume that everyone knows that by default (because hey, most adoptees know that we have a wide variety of stages/experiences/viewpoints). I am not interested in someone coming in here and slapping down a 'hey, do ANY of you like being adopted?' or 'aren't you grateful' or other such things that most other adoptees KNOW what I'm talking about because we've heard them ad nauseum from otherwise nice people for most of our lives.

I guess I thought of this thread as more of a discussion thread, and less of an education thread. I LIKE disagreement and challenge. I just would like a place to discuss without adoptee stereotypes and I really don't want a support thread to be 'educational'.

These are just my thoughts and desires though, I'm sorry that I've spoken out of turn. In the future, I'll just hit the little right hand x at the corner of the window after writing my frustrated reply, I just wanted to clarify what my thoughts were.

[TigerTail]

No please, thank you for addressing it better than I did. (All I had in me was a 'sigh' at that point. EXCELLENT post.)