lotus birth - advantages beyond delayed cord clamping?

[mezzaluna]

i am planning to delay cord clamping with my baby on the way... i want my baby to get all their blood - i want to not cause any pain - i want the cord to heal quickly and naturally... but my understanding is this could all be accomplished by waiting an hour or two before cutting.

my question is - what does lotus birth do for a baby that delaying cord cutting until there is no blood in the cord doesn't do for them?

also - at what point could we cut the cord without needing to clamp, and possibly without needing a sterile instrument? this would seem to me to be the most natural time to cut it - at a time when you don't need tools and technology to do it safely... but also giving you the convenience of not having to tote the placenta around with the baby.

[mezzaluna]

still curious to hear from anyone with experience, or who also considered this!

[arlecchina]

well I plan lotus with this one coming. There are some sites online that give some very spiritual reasons and etc, but for me personally I simply feel that if there is no reason to mess with something, then dont mess with it

[Sweeney]

We delayed cord clamping/cutting until about 14 hours postpartum with my daughter. By that point the cord had dried up quite a bit. No clamp, and just a drop or two of blood. I believe we still used a sterile instrument though. For me that was the best of both worlds- getting cord blood and everything useful out of the placenta, but obeying my instincts and getting rid of that annoying thing when I couldn't stand it anymore.

I think Gorillas gnaw it off at around 12-18 hours postpartum, I can't remember the exact range.

The difference between my kids was noticable with super delayed cord cutting. My daughter was very pink and has been very blood healthy thus far. My son had jaundice by the end of his first week and we've battled with anemia since then. His cord was cut when it "stopped pulsing". Which in hospital land meant less than 5 minutes after he was born.

Just my experience! Your mileage may vary!

[Sagesgirl]

I did some reading on lotus birth when pregnant with my last daughter, and I've not seen a single physical reason given for it. In all honesty I don't think too much of the 'spiritual' reasons for it, as I have my own spirituality, and while there are plenty of human cultures that practice reverence for the placenta, all of the lotus birth sites I visited said that this particular practice doesn't really have an anthropological correlation in humans ( one source). If it's something you feel called to, there's certainly no harm in it of course. But it's not something to do because you think there's a physical advantage to it.

[mezzaluna]

yeah... my motivation isn't spiritual, though i have no problems if someone else does have that. my motivation is to do what's most physiologically normal and healthful and instinctual.

sweeney, i think i'm drawn to what you did - delay long enough that cutting is no big deal physiologically and it's starting to feel inconvenient to have the placenta attached still. seems like a natural time to do it.

[zoebird]

the physical reading that i picked up somewhere is that unlike babies whose placentas are removed, the babies with their placentas until they fall off are less likely to loose weight in those first few days of life, and seem to have stronger immune systems than their cut counterparts.

from a psychological perspective, the baby views the placenta and cord a part of the body--as they do an arm or leg--and cutting it off, emotionally, is the same as cutting off another body part. this is just perinatal psychological theory, but it makes sense to me. when the baby removes it on his/her own, s/he is ready to let that part of their life go (the in utero life--most babies pull theirs off because, as in the womb, they play with the cord), as opposed to having a 'body part' removed b y others because "we know" that it's just going to fall of anyway and not that important.

i don't know if this is at all satisfying to you, but it is to me.

[mezzaluna]

Originally Posted by zoebird

the physical reading that i picked up somewhere is that unlike babies whose placentas are removed, the babies with their placentas until they fall off are less likely to loose weight in those first few days of life, and seem to have stronger immune systems than their cut counterparts.

it just seems to me you could get these same benefits by leaving it alone for 12 hours as leaving it alone until it comes off on its own.

from a psychological perspective, the baby views the placenta and cord a part of the body--as they do an arm or leg--and cutting it off, emotionally, is the same as cutting off another body part. this is just perinatal psychological theory, but it makes sense to me. when the baby removes it on his/her own, s/he is ready to let that part of their life go (the in utero life--most babies pull theirs off because, as in the womb, they play with the cord), as opposed to having a 'body part' removed b y others because "we know" that it's just going to fall of anyway and not that important.

i don't know if this is at all satisfying to you, but it is to me.

interesting, i didn't know that the baby playing with it would be part of the detachment... my DS didn't really start grabbing things until around 3 months...

[zoebird]

fine by me. if that's how it seems to you, then don't do lotus. if it seems to you that there are other benefits (as it seems to me), then do lotus.

[Synchro246]

Originally Posted by mezzaluna

my motivation is to do what's most physiologically normal and healthful and instinctual.

sweeney, i think i'm drawn to what you did - delay long enough that cutting is no big deal physiologically and it's starting to feel inconvenient to have the placenta attached still. seems like a natural time to do it.

I believe that at least partial consumption of the placenta is most physiologically normal. Even herbivorious animals often eat their placentas. This would involve probably lotus birthing only to the extent that the placenta is born before cord "cutting" is done. Hanging on to that particular piece of meat for an extended period of time is probably not physiological and is not generally practiced by any other mammals.

I like your line of thinking to wait until you don't "need" clamps or sterile instruments, but I would still recomend using a sterile, or at least aseptic tool. There is risk of infection--even in the wild--and sterilization is a simple and effective practice.

[Sweeney]

Just thought I'd post an article about how babies that are left attached to their placentas are 'Self resuscitating'.


Linky


It's actually from a pretty mainstream source too!

[ericswifey27]

Neat article- Just took a glance for now but printed out all 13 pages to add to my personal HBAC library, thanks!

[mezzaluna]

zoebird, thanks i'm obviously not against lotus birth, or i wouldn't be considering it. it just doesn't seem to fit precisely with the things i value, so yes, i'll probably do things differently

sweeney, that is an excellent article! - i just wish it were shorter so i could share it with more people... but i do know a couple pediatricians and OB nurses on the internet who may be interested. thanks for the reference!

[Synchro246]

Originally Posted by mezzaluna

zoebird, thanks i'm obviously not against lotus birth, or i wouldn't be considering it. it just doesn't seem to fit precisely with the things i value, so yes, i'll probably do things differently

sweeney, that is an excellent article! - i just wish it were shorter so i could share it with more people... but i do know a couple pediatricians and OB nurses on the internet who may be interested. thanks for the reference!

So, does eating your placenta fit in with the things you value?

[mrskennedy]

You'll do what you want, and feel is best. We all do. But don't let your own convenience be more important than your baby's health. As zoebird pointed out, there are benefits of Lotus birth, even beyond the spiritual. I don't know if anyone posted this link, but JIC here it is:
http://www.lotusfertility.com/Lotus_..._Birth_QA.html

It says:
"The cord dries and detaches usually by the 3rd Postpartum
day, but up to a week in certain humid indoor air conditions.

Doulas, Midwives, Physicians, and Parents who have experienced Lotus Birth babies
observe that they are demonstrably more relaxed and peaceful babies who do not
manifest the common 1 lb. newborn weight loss and breastfeeding jaundice that is
associated with the first week of life after "normal" birth's cord cutting, particularly cord
cutting within an hour of birth.

This means that gently born, uncircumcised and fully nursed & cuddled Lotus babies lose
no energy just trying to stabilize their systems in the early postpartum hours and weeks.
They are free to be fully present to the bliss of union and optimal development, and this
shows on all levels (relaxation, bountiful healthy weight gain, core muscle
strength/mobility, fine & gross motor skills, and alert observation of the world around
them). This could be called 'accelerated development' but that would be a misnomer:
Lotus babies are simply the rare fully bloomed babies, undiminished by violence and
stress in a very stressful culture. Their greater capacity for relaxation, compared to
nurslings who had early cord severance and placenta loss, is apparently a metabolic
foundation for life, and makes teething and other developmental stages much less
distressful. It could be concluded that Lotus birth gives babies lifelong coping skills."

If these things are important to you, you might want to reconsider Lotus birth.

[zoebird]

for me, eating the placenta is not compelling, though it is a very interesting idea and i see the many health benefits of doing so. i've considered consuming part of the 'back' of the placenta (that part which was more attached to me), but i don't know if it is necessary at all for me. i think that it is likely more necessary for other women--particularly those who have experienced PPD in the past, or believe that they have a predisposition to any of the problems that consuming the placenta would help abate.

[mezzaluna]

mrskennedy, i've seen that on a website - and i agree with most of it, but again, i don't see the big difference between lotus birth and delaying cord cutting for hours after birth.

i do think that "convenience" has a role to play in what is most natural to do. mammals who are up and walking around right away after birth probably need their placentas off pretty quickly. mammals who are born as helpless as humans and are carried by their mothers can leave them on longer... especially if the mother is part of a tribe who can help her and protect her so that she doesn't have to move on from her birthing place too quickly to find food and keep safe. so i can definitely see an argument that humans are "meant" to stay attached to their placentas for a good long time... either until it falls off naturally, or it becomes inconvenient for the mother and doesn't look like it's doing anything physiologically for the baby.

i would certainly consider eating the placenta if i had a medical reason to - but again it doesn't seem that natural or instinctual to me under normal circumstances. i had a good look at my DS's placenta... it looked beautiful and healthy, but eating it was the last thing on my mind.... that could be partially because i'm vegetarian, though, and eating flesh rarely crosses my mind

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by Synchro246

Hanging on to that particular piece of meat for an extended period of time is probably not physiological and is not generally practiced by any other mammals.

: If you're trying to find what's natural, I would imagine that keeping the placenta long enough that you have to salt it (I've read only a little about lotus birth, but that was part of the care that I read) is beyond what would be natural.

I am also trying to figure out when is ideal for us to cut the cord. So far, only one of ours had a "delayed" cutting, and I was surprised at how soon the mw cut it; she said it had stopped pulsating. He gained the best after birth (but was also the most chubby/solidly built at birth), but was the most jaundiced. I don't think any of my kids lost weight after birth, though.

[Lady Lilya]

I figure after the placenta has come out naturally and it appears all the blood has flowed into the baby, I will see if I feel ready or want to leave it a bit longer.

I don't think I would want to leave it attached more than a few hours. But, you don't know how you will feel until you are there.