Home addition advice

[chanibell]

Hello all,

My dh and I would like to add an addition to our home instead of moving. We like our neighbors and the area we live in. What are some basic steps we should take in finding a contractor? We want to be able to pay for at least half of it in cash and maybe take out a home equity loan. Any advice?
cheers
Chani

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by chanibell

Hello all,

My dh and I would like to add an addition to our home instead of moving. We like our neighbors and the area we live in. What are some basic steps we should take in finding a contractor? We want to be able to pay for at least half of it in cash and maybe take out a home equity loan. Any advice?
cheers
Chani

The otherday I picked up a book by Ty Pennington and it had a chapter on hiring a contractor.

[organicmommy]

One thing I will say is to check to see if they are licensed. Also ask them for references. My father is a contractor and he would be more than willing to give anyone a reference that asked for one. Also something that is a HUGE red flag is if they ask for more than 1/2 of the money upfront. My father doens't ask for any money upfront, he generally gets supplies etc and all of that and then you pay when it is finished, unless it is a huge job then he will do it in chunks.
I would say go with your instinct, that is huge and you can also check to make sure that they have no complaints against them with the BBB. Be sure to check not only the company name with them but also the individuals names. There was just something on the news here about a company that was in huge trouble and come to find out they had been in trouble not that long ago under a different name.

Good luck!

[mightymoo]

I've never been through dealing with an addition or general contracto, so ymmv, but this is the things that come to mind:

Do you know anyone you can ask for referrals? For things like that I hate to go cold, I'd rather start from a list where at least I know someone liked them, even if I didn't know that person very well. My local mothers club email list is great for this.

In reference to the PP saying look for them working under different names, in my state there is an online search of corporate entities, so you could use something like that to check to see if they have formed other corporations, etc. PM me if you live in MA and want that URL, I'll find it.

Another route to try if you can't cull a good list from friends is to try folks who would work closely with a general contractor and ask them who they recommend. You could try calling plumbers, electricians, home inspectors, roofers, etc - ask them who they would use on their own home - these folks may have worked with a bunch of general contractors and know who does good work and who doesn't - keep in mind some may get work from the contractor they are recommending, but at least its another way to shorten a list from the phone book.

Make sure there is some penalty for the contractor taking too long to complete the project. I've heard lots of horror stories about how things took months longer than expected. Your contract should include some leeway, but if the project is supposed to take 2 months and is taking 4 months or something, then the contractor needs to have a financial penalty.

[monkey's mom]

Make sure they are licensed (State DPOR [Dept. of Professional Occupation and Regulation]) and insured (business liability w/ a min. of million dollar coverage).

For references, ask for the LAST three jobs they did. It's easy to find 3 people satisified with just about anyone. But, the last 3 jobs should give you a more balanced representation.

You are going to be hard pressed to find a contractor who can guarantee a time-line or will sign on to be financially responsible for things being back-ordered or lots of work changes. That's not really done.

EXPECT it to take longer and more money--especially w/ an addition. The contractor has no idea what he's going to find when he takes your walls/roof down--if the wiring has not been up to code, that's a whole 'nother can of worms not priced in or built in time-wise. And you can about gaurantee there will be some issue like that. So, leave extra money and time in your budget and plans.

You can call supply houses in your area and ask if the contractor is up to date on his accounts. If he's delinquent and in financial trouble, you could get really screwed.

You can also ask the contractor how much work they sub out. If they do most of the work themselves, scheduling might be easier.

If they use subs, make sure it's in the contract that ALL subs carry liability and workman's comp OR are covered under the general contractor (not likely, at all)--because YOU can be liable for *their* injury or if an unlicensed sub burns your house to the ground you may be SOL.

And get at least several estimates and compare apples to apples--the bottom line price can be very deceiving--make sure that the contracts include the same things. Lots of contractors will come in cheap, but will intentionally leave things out so they can do a bunch of change orders in the end for lots more money--but they're things that need to be done regardless, and they know you're not going to go getting estimates for "a la carte" items once the job is underway. Like, contractors who contract for tiling "two shower walls" at x dollars. Well, yeah, but you pretty much need that 3rd wall tiled, too, you know? So, his discounted price might not be much of a discount after he gouges you for that 3rd wall.

Good luck! Trust your gut, too! Most contractors are hard working honest folks looking to do good work. But, there are a handful of shady people out there. And for whatever reason, even the good ones seem to have issues about time frames and returning calls! It's just kind of the law of the land.

[UmmBnB]

My dh is a contractor and it never fails to amaze us the number of crooks and ppl who know nothing about construction out there...who are staying busy!!!

Depending on where you live, a license may not be that big of a deal. In Colorado for instance, all you have to do to get a license is pass a relatively easy open-book test. It has NOTHING to do with the integrity or talent of the contractor. What is most important and hardest to get, most anyplace, is INSURANCE and some states also required bonding. Contractor liability is essential, expensive and underwriting is thorough.

Absolutely ask for references. Pay close attention to their ethic - do they no-show for estimates? If so, its likely they will no show on work days. Are their bid proposals presented in a professional manner? Do you get a good feeling about the whole bid process in general? Dh gets the vast majority of work from personal references and via his web-site.

I wouldn't necessarily cast them off for asking for money up front - but make sure you are comfortable with it. Dh and his partner often require a materials deposit as do many of their colleagues - all depends on the scope of the job. If you aren't comfortable giving them money, arrange to pay for the materials yourself. Most will be more than happy to have you pay the suppliers directly since that's a liabilty off their hands.

Your contract should have a payment built on milestones in the project - ie. floor sheeted = draw #1, walls standing = draw #2, etc. With the final and largest draw being required after building inspection.

Dh's partner has used referal services in the past to get work. They put him through a thorough background and credit check. He used Service Master and was very happy with them from the contractor standpoint. We ahve a local guy who started as a consumer reporter and now has a large network of "approved" providers for a myriad of services. I know its spread to other states http://www.troubleshooter.com/

[organicmommy]

Getting licensed isn't a bid deal in Iowa either, you have to take in proof of insurance and fill out papers, thats all. BUT if they are licensed it is easier to track the contractors.

I agree that most won't guarentee a timeline because things happen as I am sure everyone can understand. I agree that you should ask for the last jobs that were done although as an example the last few jobs that my father has done have been very minor jobs, not big jobs like what it sounds like youare going for. If the job was just for repairs, that isn't a good representation of what type of work they do under pressure.

I agree there are A LOT of crocks out there so be careful. Talk to people you know. They are going to give you the best ideas.

Good luck

[velochic]

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it!!!!!!

We have had additions built, remodeling done, bathrooms refurbished... and hands down EVERY SINGLE CONTRACTOR WAS A CROOK!!!

We have over $6000 in outstanding judgments against contractors who screwed us over. Don't do it... just buy. I've never met an honest contractor and we dealt with no less than 15 over the last 3 years trying to get our house addition/remodel in order for my mother (who lives with us). Oh, the headaches. It's just not worth it.

[organicmommy]

Originally Posted by velochic

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it!!!!!!

We have had additions built, remodeling done, bathrooms refurbished... and hands down EVERY SINGLE CONTRACTOR WAS A CROOK!!!

We have over $6000 in outstanding judgments against contractors who screwed us over. Don't do it... just buy. I've never met an honest contractor and we dealt with no less than 15 over the last 3 years trying to get our house addition/remodel in order for my mother (who lives with us). Oh, the headaches. It's just not worth it.

I take great offense to this. This is what has put food on my table and shoes on my daughters feet for almost a year as my husband has been working with my father. Sad to say there are good ones out there and you just have to find them. It could be the area that you are living in, I don't know, but in our area there is less of a problem with contractors etc than there is with lawyers, drs etc.

I think you need to think about what you are saying because you are talking about peoples families when you say that htey are all crooks and that is just wrong!:

[velochic]

Originally Posted by organicmommy

I take great offense to this. This is what has put food on my table and shoes on my daughters feet for almost a year as my husband has been working with my father. Sad to say there are good ones out there and you just have to find them. It could be the area that you are living in, I don't know, but in our area there is less of a problem with contractors etc than there is with lawyers, drs etc.

I think you need to think about what you are saying because you are talking about peoples families when you say that htey are all crooks and that is just wrong!:

I call them like I see them. I didn't name your husband, and just gave my own opinion based on my own experience. You can be offended all you want, it still won't change my opinion (which, btw, I have a right to). Contractors almost killed my mother with the stress of it all. I'll never hire another one. Period.

[monkey's mom]

Yeah, my husband's run his own construction business for more than a decade and his honest and accomodating and just looking to do what he loves and support our family.

Sorry you've had such a run of bad luck, velochic.

[organicmommy]

But to say that they are ALL CROOKS is a bit harsh. Like I said you have obviously had bad luck.
I am sorry you had bad luck and it is your opinion, but you are talking about peoples families when you say they are all crooks and that is not right. Your opinion you are entitled to, but you can't speak for those you have not dealt with.

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by chanibell

Hello all,

My dh and I would like to add an addition to our home instead of moving. We like our neighbors and the area we live in. What are some basic steps we should take in finding a contractor? We want to be able to pay for at least half of it in cash and maybe take out a home equity loan. Any advice?
cheers
Chani

I'd start by asking friends and family for recommendations and going from there.

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by organicmommy

But to say that they are ALL CROOKS is a bit harsh. .

FWIW if you reread her original post she meant every single one she dealt with, which is not a generalization.

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by monkey's mom

You are going to be hard pressed to find a contractor who can guarantee a time-line or will sign on to be financially responsible for things being back-ordered or lots of work changes. That's not really done.

I know they do this sometimes in new construction which is why I mentioned it. I wouldn't expect a contractor to be responsible for say when the cabinets came in, but I have just heard terrible stories of contractors who basically would just take other jobs instead, come work on your house for a couple days then disappear for weeks with no material delay. I would personally try to write a clause which protected me against this and I probably wouldn't have the contractor start until all the materials were in anyway. Maybe a better way to word it would be some guarantee that they are going to work on your house continuously without taking projects in between, or something.

[A&A]

:

[monkey's mom]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

I know they do this sometimes in new construction which is why I mentioned it. I wouldn't expect a contractor to be responsible for say when the cabinets came in, but I have just heard terrible stories of contractors who basically would just take other jobs instead, come work on your house for a couple days then disappear for weeks with no material delay. I would personally try to write a clause which protected me against this and I probably wouldn't have the contractor start until all the materials were in anyway. Maybe a better way to word it would be some guarantee that they are going to work on your house continuously without taking projects in between, or something.

Yeah, it's a bit of a juggling act to run a business like this, though. Especially if the contractor uses a lot of subcontractors. You are going to run into scheduling delays b/c of weather, materials, co-ordinating subs, homeowner issues, etc. If the contractor can't "fill in" his schedule and have several jobs going at once--he's either really, really big (and does most of the work in house--w/ his own employees who he can schedule tightly) or he's not very busy (which would worry me in this building boom).

So, I understand where you're coming from, but I still think you are going to be hard pressed to find many contractors willing to do this. Maybe in a place where there isn't as much building...but, in our experience it's just the way it goes and something that you kind of have to roll with (within reason of course!).

[UmmBnB]

That is too bad that you've had such bad experiences velochic. If I'd had experiences like yours, I'd feel exactly the same more than likely! I agree there are a LOT of crooks out there which makes it so much harder for honest, talented carpenters to exist. But that's life. There are crooks all around and its scary anytime you have to hire a service provider!!

I sit well knowing that my husband, his partner and employees take great pride in their work. The amount of business they get from referrals speaks to their good name and integrity.

Putting on an addition is a pain regardless of how good yoru contractor is I'm dreading ours, which will come in a couple of years, and dh's company will be doing the work. I get all kinds of anxious when I think about it and would much rather just move than put on a new bedroom. But that would be silly of us so....I'll grin and bear it and try not to bitch too much in the process.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by organicmommy

But to say that they are ALL CROOKS is a bit harsh. Like I said you have obviously had bad luck.
I am sorry you had bad luck and it is your opinion, but you are talking about peoples families when you say they are all crooks and that is not right. Your opinion you are entitled to, but you can't speak for those you have not dealt with.

All the contractors I dealt with WERE crooks. I never said that all contractors are crooks. Every single one I dealt with either skimped on materials, padded bills, bailed with our money, or turned a 2 week project into a 3 month project... and we still have things that are not finished. I'm not going to paint a rosy picture because someone online, who I've never met doesn't want me to speak poorly of contractors.

Would it make you feel better if I said: All the contractors I've dealt with are crooks. I have NOT dealt with OrganicMommy's husband.

[fuller2]

Always allow yourself a reserve of at least 30% of the estimated cost, preferably more like 50%, for when the project goes overbudget. (That is, if they estimate $50K, be ready for the cost to actually be $75K)

Know what you want before they start knocking walls down! It drives contractors crazy when you change things after the project has already started. (This is also what drives costs up.)

There is a local building materials co-op where I live that offers one-day classes in how to work with a contractor. You might check your various community organizations, adult education places, etc. to see if there is a class like this in your area.

Check the BBB for any complaints, and look at Angie's List for recommendations. http://www.angieslist.com/AngiesList/