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I am going crazy... - Page 3

post #41 of 117
Back to the original topic at hand...

Aquafina, it is frustrating to research this issue because there does not appear to be an unbiased source of info. No one wants their child to be sick. And no mother wants to feel judged. (By family, medical practitioners, etc.)

My best advice is to read a book like, "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" by Robert Mendelsohn (himself an MD), who goes through many of the VPDs, what a normal course looks like, and how to treat it. You realize that while perstussis may seem like a big scary disease, it's really not. It sounds worse than it is in most people. It's a protracted illness, but it's generally more uncomfortable than anything else. For me, researching the diseases I was most scared of, how frequently they occur in the US, and then comparing that to the vax to "prevent" the disease was very helpful.

Pertussis is quite possibly the worst vax currently on the market in terms of creating severe, irreparable damage to the human brain. As in, long term disability. You will rarely find someone with a serious seizure disorder and developmental disability because they contracted wild pertussis.

I have also stopped discussing vaxes with friends/doctors/etc. My beliefs are my own. I will answer questions if a serious inquiry is presented. But I don't go around flaunting my beliefs, as I'm unlikely to change a closed mind, and it creates nothing but headache for me.

post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by lioralourie View Post
I vote that LI's figure is believable.
From my link:

These data suggest that there are between 800 000 and 3.3 million cases per year in the United States.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/115/5/1422
post #43 of 117
Aquafina, I so know where you are coming from. I've literally become obsessed with this topic for the last 6 months and it has resulted in me alienating a friend because I just couldn't stop talking about it. I've spent so much time and I want for others to know, but like MsElle07 said you cannot open closed minds. It took me reading for probably over 100 hours before mine opened, well not opened, but changed. I had the assumption that vaxes were great, but I was an uncomfortable fence sitter. Once I did my research I knew I was doing the right thing. Yes, I worry about meningitis.
Like MsElle07 said, read what Dr. Mendelson says about it. That is a really great book, BTW. I wish my ex-pediatrition would have read it.
post #44 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmom View Post
You can find information to answer your questions on their About page.

"The National Network for Immunization Information (NNii) is an affiliation of the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Nurses Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the University of Texas Medical Branch, the Society for Adolescent medicine and the American Medical Association.

NNii is a service provided by Immunizations for Public Health (I4PH), a Texas-based nonprofit corporation dedicated to making immunization information available to those who need it." http://www.immunizationinfo.org/about/index.cfm
Yep, have to dig a little to find the conflicts here, but they are there,

From the site you posted, NNii, they claim

About NNii
Funding

Support

NNii is dedicated to providing the latest scientific information on immunizations to the public, healthcare providers, policy makers, and the media. Neither NNii nor its sponsoring corporation, I4PH, accept any financial support from the pharmaceutical industry or the federal government.
NNii has received the support of the Annie E. Casey Foundation, the Children's Vaccine Program at PATH (Program for Appropriate Technology in Health), the Jewish Healthcare Foundation, and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.


Yet look who is the first one listed on the steering committee...
Samuel L. Katz, MD
Professor and Chairman Emeritus of Pediatrics, Duke University (Co-Chair)

More about Katz, and you will get a glimpse of why this site is so pro vax, hint, $$$$$...

Dr. Katz, the Wilburt Cornell Davison Professor and Chairman Emeritus of Pediatrics at Duke University, is an honors graduate of Dartmouth College and Harvard Medical School. After medical internship at Beth Israel Hospital he completed Pediatrics residency training at the Massachusetts General Hospital and the Boston Children's Hospital, followed by a research fellowship in virology and infectious diseases, and then became a staff member at Children's Hospital working with Nobel Laureate John J. Enders. He remained with Enders for 12 years during which time they developed the attenuated measles virus vaccine now used throughout the world. Katz' career has been devoted to infectious disease research focusing principally on vaccine research and development. In addition, to his investigations of measles, he has been involved in studies of vaccinia, polio, rubella, influenza, pertussis, HIV, Haemophilus influenzae b conjugates and many others.

RWJ is hardly unrelated to the pharmaceutical industry, in fact, they have partnered with Merck...


In an effort to educate providers and the public on vaccine issues, The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation provided a $750,000 grant to the National Network for Immunization Information (NNii) for communication and education programs on vaccines.

Of course they are going to support their partner, Merck...

Johnson & Johnson - Merck Consumer Pharmaceuticals Co.

http://www.hoovers.com/johnson-&-joh...actsheet.xhtml

Some history,

Robert Wood Johnson concluded there ought to be a better way. Mr. Johnson joined with his two brothers, James Wood and Edward Mead Johnson, who had formed a partnership in 1885. Operations began in New Brunswick, New Jersey, in 1886 with 14 employees on the fourth floor of a small building that once was a wallpaper factory. In 1887 the Company was incorporated as Johnson & Johnson. With few hospitals in the United States in 1887 large enough to use Lister's methods of antisepsis, Johnson & Johnson entered the surgical dressings industry.

http://www.jnj.com/our_company/histo..._section_1.htm

Title: Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program - 2005-2006
Application Deadline: Feb 15, 2005

http://www.rwjf.org/applying/cfpDeta...=CSP&type=open

Robert Wood Johnson Medical School

http://www2.umdnj.edu/sarpweb/research/summerpr.htm


Bottom line, when reading pro and con vax info, you have to ask yourself, what do they stand to gain by trying to convince me that their information is the right information?
post #45 of 117
Thank you everyone for the information.

I'm still a skeptic and don't blindly believe everything the government, etc. puts out there, but I haven't been convinced of the conspiracy theory of the pharm/government is out to get us with vaccines.

I respect your decision to not-vax and I would like the same respect (not saying it hasn't been given). It also doesn't imply that I haven't read the information or that I'm not "open-minded". I have just come to a different conclusion than you. In the end, we're all trying to do what is best for our children and our individual circumstances.
post #46 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmom View Post
I haven't been convinced of the conspiracy theory of the pharm/government is out to get us with vaccines.



Oh brother, another one who believes we don't vaccinate because we think the government is "out to get us."
post #47 of 117
I don't think it is a conspiracy theory. I think it is what it is. Follow the HPV vaccine controversy and you can see it. Merck lobbies to get the vax mandatory. It isn't a conspiracy. It is out in the open. It just smells like a dead rat to me that the corporation profiting from the vaccine has to lobby to make it mandatory. Most people are not paying any attention and have seen the message of "tell someone" in the mass media and think the vaccine is great. So even we the people, the citizens of this country, are also lobbied to make us think it is great.
post #48 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post


Oh brother, another one who believes we don't vaccinate because we think the government is "out to get us."
Thank you for your open-mind when it comes to my beliefs.
post #49 of 117
nwmom keep reading here. I read for 3 months before I got up the guts to post. Many of these mamas know their stuff and they sure as heck know more than most doctors do about it.
post #50 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaPossum View Post
nwmom keep reading here. I read for 3 months before I got up the guts to post. Many of these mamas know their stuff and they sure as heck know more than most doctors do about it.
I have been lurking for a few months (and not just at this site). While I appreciate your faith in the mamas here, I need a little more convincing. Other than reading info online, what credentials do these ladies have in regards to immunology, epidemiology, scientific research, medicine, etc.?
post #51 of 117
I didn't just trust them. I also read books written by doctors. One really good book is by Sherri Tenpenny. She lists a bunch of articles that you can go look up for yourself. I totally understand that you don't want to just trust a bunch of ladies on the internet so read the other stuff too.

Here are some books I have read:

The Vaccine Guide by Neustaedter (OMD)
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You... by Cave (MD)
Natrual Alternatives to Vaccination by Rona (MD)
Vaccines: The Risks the Benefits the Choices... by Tenpenny (DO)
Just a Little Prick by Hilary Butler (Most Informed Concerned Citizen Ever)
Vaccines by Miller (not sure credentials)
Vaccinations... by Romm (herbalist)
How to Raise a Healthy Child... by Mendelsohn (MD)

I'm also taking an online class with Sheri Nakken

I also follow up and read articles from PubMed. I go to the library and get the full article if it isn't available online.


A LOT of people are starting to wake up to the fact that vaccines are responsible for autoimmune diseases later in life. Good luck in your research. It took me a LONG time before I made up my mind and as you can see I've read a lot on the topic.
post #52 of 117
Quote:
So even we the people, the citizens of this country, are also lobbied to make us think it is great.
I remember when the first prescription drug ads hit television en masse. It was a flood. I recall thinking these are prescription drugs, why are they advertising them to the public. We don't write our own prescriptions. Doctors are supposed to utilize their professional experience to decide what is best for their patients. Are we supposed to go into the doctor's office and ask for a specific drug because we saw an ad on tv? It seemed totally off the wall to me.

I later had a strange experience sitting in with a client (young boy) and his mother during a visit with his psychiatrist. The psychiatrist said to the mom, "If you see a neighbor's child behaving better and you know that child is on a medication, you may want to find out from the parent what the medication is and we can try it on your son." Am I the only one who thinks that is messed up? We are being lobbied to buy and sell a product.

This whole thing is just bizarre to me.
post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmom View Post
Thank you for your open-mind when it comes to my beliefs.
nwmom - in your post you very clearly dismissed nonvaxers as nothing more than conspiracy theorists. Surely, you didn't think you were going to get a positive response to that mistaken belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmom View Post
Other than reading info online, what credentials do these ladies have in regards to immunology, epidemiology, scientific research, medicine, etc.?

This is a parenting discussion board.

Maybe you should stick with the CDC and CHOP "parent pages" like you've been doing so far . . . where their impressive "credentials" can be verified.

Besides, your posts in this forum don't appear as though you're seeking to be "convinced" of anything. Rather, it's the other way around.

Do you need help with any of your research?
post #54 of 117
Oh yes I remember that when the drugs could be marketed directly to the citizens and I remember thinking that sucks! And I do think it still sucks. I try to keep the mass media out of my life as much as possible. I think I've become more informed since doing that. That sounds bizarre doesn't it?
post #55 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwmom View Post
I have been lurking for a few months (and not just at this site). While I appreciate your faith in the mamas here, I need a little more convincing. Other than reading info online, what credentials do these ladies have in regards to immunology, epidemiology, scientific research, medicine, etc.?
Since when does one need credentials to use their intelligence to make an informed and educated decision regarding the health and well-being of our bodies and our children's bodies?

Can only a breast specialist learn about the benefits of breastfeeding vs the harms of formula feeding?

Can only an OB/GYN discuss the dangers of inductions and elective cesareans?
post #56 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
:regarding the health and well-being of our bodies and our children's bodies?

Can only a breast specialist learn about the benefits of breastfeeding vs the harms of formula feeding?

Can only an OB/GYN discuss the dangers of inductions and elective cesareans?
:

I do feel you need to read stuff from people with credentials when you first start because that is where you are at, but there is no reason why concerned citizens can't understand this issue themselves.
post #57 of 117
Just piping up to say that, if credentials are your bag, you can find credentialed posters here on both sides.
post #58 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post


Oh brother, another one who believes we don't vaccinate because we think the government is "out to get us."
It is not at all surprising that she would have gotten that impression, given the number of posts here every day which claim something along those lines, hinting at conspiracies by the government, "big pharma", or both.
post #59 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Can only an OB/GYN discuss the dangers of inductions and elective cesareans?
You won't actually hear many people with those credentials talking about those dangers. They'd rather tell you "your baby's too big" or "you're not progressing." That's why I don't blindly trust credentials.
post #60 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trillian View Post
It is not at all surprising that she would have gotten that impression, given the number of posts here every day which claim something along those lines, hinting at conspiracies by the government, "big pharma", or both.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...archid=4131686

I just did a quick search. Of the 13,619 threads, there are less than 300 threads with the word conspiracy in them. Of those, most of the word conspiracy is posted by pro-vaxer's or newbies. The non-vax'ers have made sure to point out that they do NOT believe there is a conspiracy to kill or damage people with vaccines.
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