Need info about the Vit. K shot

[slavila]

I've definitely decided not to have the ointment put in the baby's eyes, but now I need to decide about the Vit K shot. Can anyone point me to any good websites about it, or can anyone share what they did and why? Thanks

[krismarie]

i did an oral vit k with ds, but won't do anything this time. i've been drinking lots of nettle tea and will continue to up to the birth and afterwards...nettles have a lot of vit k.

my friend recently had a hospital birth with an ob and told her ob that she didn't want to do the vit k with her son... her ob said she thought it wasn't necessary if she wasn't circing (and she wasn't). i thought that was interesting coming from an ob.

i'm sure there are many mamas on here with better info than mine.

[mendomidwife]

I only do the Vit K if the baby is having a circ. The pediatricians will not do the circ unless the Vit k is given beforehand.
Another reason I would recommend it is if the baby had a very difficult birth with possible head trauma (severe molding), bruising, etc. Or, if the baby is a premie with an increased risk of a intrancranial bleed...but since I only do homebirths, this is unlikely.
In 20+ years I've never had a problem from NOT doing Vit k for healthy newborns.
Carla

[Carolinamidwife]

ITA with Carla.

[musemor]

I did oral VitK but if I have another child we won't do anything (unless there is birth trauma).

[Isaac'sMa]

Ok, I'm going to be the lone dissenter here. : My son got the shot.

Here's the story: Based on our (DH and me) research, we did not feel that it was necessary. When our MW offered it after DS was born we said, "well, we're not circing, so no thanks." FIL was the first to arrive after Ds was born and had a fit when he heard that he had not had the shot. Ordinarily, I would have been like "whatever, we did the research" (which we did but FIL is a pediatric hematologist and pediatrician-in-chief at a major Baltimore hospital of international repute. (Don't even get me started on all the crap we had to go through when we told the ILs we were planning a HB) By later that night, FIL had given me a stack of articles some of which he'd authored, one about a baby who died from *not* getting the Vit. K shot. This baby had (i believe) hemorragic ds. of the newborn and had been a HB baby delivered by a MW. He also gave me the article that discounted the previous studies (from around 1994 or so) saying that Vit K shot was linked to cancer.

I do trust that in most cases the body works as it should and most babies will be fine without the shot. But, according to his research, bleeds can occur with no detectable reason for up to six months after birth, if the baby does not have the Vit K shot.

Based on all the new research we were presented and also due to the fact that DS got "stuck on his way out" and had a cephalohematoma, we gave him the shot. I hope this story makes sense...

BelgianSheepDog, where are you? I know you've got something to say about this!

[AJP]

I supplemented myself with oral vit. K as well as eating/drinking lots of food and herbs high in vit. K and making sure my intestinal flora was in good shape by consuming lots of probiotic foods, like kefir and cultured veggies, because much of the vit. K in your body is manufactured by bacteria in your gut. I ate the foods and drank the teas all through pregnancy, but added the oral vit. K drops for the last month of gestation and first month post-partum, to really boost my vit. K levels (looked into toxicity levels first, found it wasn't an issue), including in my milk.

I found studies that showed supplementing the pregnant mother did not increase blood levels of vit. K in the newborn (which says to me that there's a very good biological reason babies are normally not born with high vit. K levels, and we shouldn't tamper with it); HOWEVER, supplementing the mother does increase vit. K levels in her breastmilk, resulting in rising levels in the baby over the following weeks. Some people choose to give the oral supplement directly to the baby. Sorry, I don't have the links for the studies now, but found them through Google. Here's a page with a lot of links, maybe some of them are the studies I remember: http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vitktop.html I got the oral vit. K through birthwithlove.com, but that site isn't coming up now, I don't know what's up with that, maybe someone else sells it too.

Avoiding abx is important in this issue, too, I believe. Keep mom's intestinal flora in good shape so her own vit. K levels in breastmilk are adequate and get baby off to a good start by innoculating the intestines with mom's healthy flora via nursing so baby can manufacture vit. K in the gut.

[Lady Lilya]

I won't be having a choice about vitamin K or no vitamin K. I will only have a choice between injection vs oral. Based on my reasoning that the baby's circulatory system should have been in practice for a while, but not his digestive system, and that his blood has had vitamin K in it already, so it is not so foreign as it would be in his tummy, I will go with the injection.

If I don't, I am inviting CPS to take him.

The HB MW doesn't like it either, but she has been really honest with me about what bending of the rules is tolerated well, and what I can expect to be a problem. I am choosing to do several things I originally had no intention of doing, just to protect the baby from CPS taking him and doing ALL the things I don't want, like vaxing.

P.S. I expect the body prevents over-transmission of VitK to baby from mother in utero because too much VitK causes the blood to get very thick and clot (that is how rat poison works). Breast milk is supposed to supply the proper amount for a baby, though.

Isaac'sMa, sounds like you made an informed choice. That is as it should be.

I don't worry as much about the vitK as I do about the silver nitrate in his eyes. I'm going to see if I can get the MW to fudge that a little and maybe *miss* his eyes. I worry about the 1 in 10,000 risk for blindness. If not, perhaps I can wash it out immediately. Not so fun for a newborn to have his head under the faucet, probably traumatic, but not as bad as blindness.

[mamamoogs]

Why would CPS take your baby for not giving the Vit K shot I was under the belief that there is no law stating that you have to do this or any shot/vaccination for that matter , can some one please explain if this indeed happens?

[jmom713]

We did oral vitamin K as DS had a lot of skull molding/compression on the way out (he was large and it took great effort to crown him).

Jen

[Arwyn]

Rat poison is actually warfarin sodium, a blood "thinner". At least some types - I'm not an expert on poisons, there could be blood clotters, also.

Lilya - that's awful! Silver nitrate?? Surely they could at least do antibiotic ointment instead! (More effective - not that most of us need it, but some do - and MUCH less painful/irritating to the eyes!) Are you completely sure of the laws in your state? I've never heard of such restrictive, dictatorial practices, and I've heard some horrible stuff.

[Lady Lilya]

I will check it out more precisely. This is just what I was told.

[Isaac'sMa]

I think it's usually erythromycin for the eyes...

[Lady Lilya]

I don't think that is much better.

I would much rather they put nothing in the eyes.

[Arwyn]

Best would be nothing, but erythromiacin IS much better than silver nitrate. SN is very stingy and clouds the eyes even more. The antibiotic ointment is annoying, but basically painless.

[Jada Mae]

Lilya, that all sounds really fishy to me. I know I am not in NY, but I have never heard of having to use SN (instead of Erythro...I even thought SN was long gone now a days) or if you don't do Vit. K CPS will come for your babe! I am very interested in hearing what you find out about the laws in NY in reference to these two things. Hmm...think I might do some researching myself....just sounds really fishy....

[see_nelle_run]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

I don't think that is much better.

I would much rather they put nothing in the eyes.

I agree, nothing would be preferable, especially if there is no risk of chlamydia or gonorrhea infection :

As an aside, I live in Virginia and there are laws that say we must give the baby the eye ointment, the vit. k, AND PKU...all are REQUIRED.

[mashenka]

My midwife had me take alfalfa tablets starting at about 36 weeks. They are high in Vitamin K and REALLY help with any constipation you might be having. I was to work my up to I think 9 pills a day. I can't recall. I just gradually upped the dosage. Here is a discussion of it on a midwifery board. It is also high in magnesium. My midwife advised me to take it postpartum as well, but to not take as many as it could REALLY increase the milk supply, which most of us don't need in those early days of engorgement.

[Lady Lilya]

Originally Posted by Jada Mae

Lilya, that all sounds really fishy to me. I know I am not in NY, but I have never heard of having to use SN (instead of Erythro...I even thought SN was long gone now a days) or if you don't do Vit. K CPS will come for your babe! I am very interested in hearing what you find out about the laws in NY in reference to these two things. Hmm...think I might do some researching myself....just sounds really fishy....

I wasn't told that it had to be SN in the eyes. I was told i had to have eye drops. Then, at a different time, I was told that the eye drops are usually SN.

I don't want ANY eye drops. But i have been told it is required by law.

[LydiaJW]

hoppin' in here.

I'm actually dealing with this right now (babe is due next week). Here in michigan, there IS a law requiring the attending physician to put the eyedrops in the baby's eyes, HOWEVER there is also a law saying that if the parent is religiously opposed to it happening, the doctor may NOT put the eyedrops in the baby's eyes. My dad is a lawyer and he's getting all this set for me. From what I understand there is no law (at least here in MI) requiring Vit. K (which I will also be waiving unless a traumatic delivery necessitates it.)