Tetanus -- need help! - Page 2

[grisandole]

I'm moving this to health and healing, as it is about wound care and not vaccines

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by bczmama

The last sentence of my original post indicates the purpose:

Please -- we would really appreciate any thoughts or persuasive info from otherwise non-vaxing mothers who would get tetanus in this situation. The injury happened today, and we plan to call again first thing tomorrow morning to try and get DSS into the doctor's ASAP.

So basically this is what you want - you want nonvaxers to chime in to say they would go to the doc or ER so you can tell SS's mother, "see, even the nonvaxers at Mothering said they would go to the doctor?"

[*~Member~*]

Please -- we would really appreciate any thoughts or persuasive info from otherwise non-vaxing mothers who would get tetanus in this situation. The injury happened today, and we plan to call again first thing tomorrow morning to try and get DSS into the doctor's ASAP.

I'm a non-vaxing mother. My 3 year old put a rusty nail through her foot in January at my uncles farm. I wiped it down with a clothe and took her to the Dr. He checked it and said it was fine. He knows my stance on vaccinating and he said just what these women here have told you. By protocol he was forced to try to have us give her the DTaP shot. They do NOT give immune globulin to children in 99% of cases. This was from my dr himself.

BTW my child got no shots and she's 100% fine. Save a tiny scar on her foot

[bczmama]

No -- I was looking for information in support of and/or reasons why non-vaxers would consider vaxing in this situation.

[grisandole]

Originally Posted by bczmama

"But the thing is - if he was brought into the doctor or ER, they would give him the vaccine. When it's a minor wound and clean and the person has not been immunized (or is underimmunized), the vaccine is given. Not the immune globlulin. That's the official protocol in the Pink Book (see the chart at Wound Management). "

Your scenario assumes that it is a minor wound and clean -- what I am saying is that I would like someone to take a look and verify that...then determine whether the immune globulin should be given.

The last sentence of my original post indicates the purpose:

Please -- we would really appreciate any thoughts or persuasive info from otherwise non-vaxing mothers who would get tetanus in this situation. The injury happened today, and we plan to call again first thing tomorrow morning to try and get DSS into the doctor's ASAP.

Since 5 million other people on these boards ask for information that only supports their point of view, I'm not sure why I can't as well.

Reading your OP, it wasn't clear to me that you wanted support for getting a tetanus shot....which is why I moved it to health and healing It seemed to me that you were asking if a non-vaxer would choose to get the TIG for this type of wound.

[*~Member~*]

Most of them wouldn't, even in this situation. I didn't and I was in almost this exact situation

[bczmama]

Of course, you bothered to have the doctor look at it which DSS's mother is currently refusing to do.

[*~Member~*]

Yes I had my Pedi look at it because we were already scheduled to go for her 3 year check up. I didn't make a special trip for it or anything. If we hadn't had a check up alreaday I wouldn't have gotten it looked at at all. It wasn't a big deal, it did bleed, and there were no signs at all of infection

[grisandole]

Vaccinations are supposed to prevent disease, in theory, and they are not designed to "help" after an exposure. The TIG would, in theory, help (though that is also debateable) if one was exposed to tetanus, but a vaccination would be worthless.

I would ask you stepson's mom if the wound bled at all. If it did, no worries at all. If it didn't, she should clean it with hydrogen peroxide.

[alegna]

As mentioned, the tetanus vaccine would be useless in this situation. So no, I would not get it. Would I get TIG in this situation? Not unless symptoms were shown. Would I take him to the Dr? No. I'm better at wound cleaning than your average ped. or ER doc. What would I do to clean it? Pour a bit of hydrogen peroxide on it and squeeze it gently to see if it would bleed easily.

Really your ss's mom does not sound negligent in her care here. I wonder if you're feeling that way because of possible other issues you have with her. Are you resentful that ss is not vaccinated otherwise? Is it a fighting issue between the two families? I'm sensing that this is not just about a nail in the foot.

-Angela

[mavery]

I am a partially-vaxing mother, so maybe not exactly the input you are looking for. I can totally understand why you are alarmed, though I think the risk is small. I imagine that part of the stress is just that you have no control over the situation and feel powerless to make the best decision for your dss.

Is there a doctor that the local family trusts who could be consulted? I agree that if the child sees a doc whoever takes him should be primed to refuse the tetanus *vax*, and find out what the doc thinks about the TIG. I think in your situation I would *consider* the TIG but would want to know about how the wound was cleaned, how much it bled and how deep it is.

Are there other trust or territory issues between you and your dp and dss's mother? It sounds like the conversation was either confrontational or at best not very informative. Could you tell her as non-judgmentally as possible that you are concerned and it's hard to be so far away and not have full info about the situation, and see how much you can find out? It sounds like family relationships are making this situation more tense than it would be otherwise. I would go as gently as you can with her but try to get either the info you need to feel less panicked or a quick check from a doc.

[mama2walden&luna]

I would just like to say that I have read all of these posts and have really gotten some great information. I too am afraid of tetanus, and have never allowed dd to play around farm animals, or even a petting zoo. Now that I know that oxygen is the key and the risk is small, I feel a lot better. I think it would be wise to take advice from these moms; I believe they know what they are talking about. I mean, one of them is even married to an ER doc! I think there is some pretty reliable advice here.

[alegna]

The other thing is that tetanus is EVERYWHERE. Really. In the dust in your house. Farm animals really don't increase the chance of infection. It's just everywhere.

-Angela

[Crisstiana]

Originally Posted by alegna

The other thing is that tetanus is EVERYWHERE. Really. In the dust in your house. Farm animals really don't increase the chance of infection. It's just everywhere.

-Angela

This is not correct. As other post have alluded to, the bacterium that causes tetanus is often found in the GI tract of horses and often can be found in horse manure. This makes wounds that occur in stables more worrisome with regard to tetanus.

..

From the Australian Gov't's Department of Health and Aging: Tetanus

C. tetani (a bacillus) is a normal and harmless inhabitant of many animals (eg. horses) and humans and is a common environmental organism found in soil. Infection with the bacillus may occur after minor incidents (sometimes unnoticed punctures to the skin) or after major injury: compound fractures; wounds containing foreign bodies, especially wood splinters; wounds complicated by pyogenic infections; wounds with extensive tissue damage, e.g. contusions or burns; any superficial wound obviously contaminated with soil, dust or horse manure, especially if topical disinfection is delayed more than 4 hours....

...

From Clinical practice guidelines from the Royal Children's Hospital: Management of tetanus-prone wounds

...The recommendations for the management of tetanus-prone wounds remain the same: Types of wounds likely to favour the growth of tetanus organisms include: ....any wound obviously contaminated with soil, dust or horse manure (especially if topical disinfection is delayed more than 4 hours)....

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Crisstiana

...The recommendations for the management of tetanus-prone wounds remain the same: Types of wounds likely to favour the growth of tetanus organisms include: ....any wound obviously contaminated with soil, dust or horse manure (especially if topical disinfection is delayed more than 4 hours)....

Notice that soil and dust are listed equally with horse manure.

-Angela

[Crisstiana]

It's a matter of increased risk from horse manure as manure from horses with tetanus in their GI tract can have very high concentrations of the bacilli that cause tetanus - thousands of times more than what would be found in most suburban soil samples and millions time more than what normally would be found in household dust.

[alegna]

I realize the theoretical situation. However statistics don't hold out from what I've seen (and your quotes do nothing to convince me being that they quote a splinter and dust and soil equally to the manure)

-Angela

[Gitti]

I am a non-vaccing grandmother and in the situation you described I would not vaccinated. But I am asking again, did the wound have any blood at the surface?

[momtoalexsarah]

We are selectivly vaxing we do to the tetnus vax but we also live on a farm and are exposed more so to the bacteria then the average person. That being said - if my child was unvaxed and got a nail in the bum I certainly wouldn't go running for a vax - it wont do any good as others have said. And that kind of wound I would think a doctor would laught at the though of givein TIG
Here is my story involving TIG
As far as getting a shot of TIG it has to be a severe wound with lots of contamintation before they consider it. I had a dose of TIG 3 years ago and they(the ER docs) really debated weather I needed it or not - and I had a NASTY wound - 1.5 inch long punture gash on my lower arm from a barbwire fence(covered in animal rubbings) with which I then fell forward and sunk into cow muck up to my elbows. At the ER the cleaned and stiched it (6 stiches) then decided that I should have the TIG - but they did consider not giving to to me, they said even with that kind of filthy wound - the chances where slim. But they did give it just because they wanted to be safe. (BTW I have never had a tetnus shot and after nearly 30 years living on a farm and stepping and falling on numerouse icky rusty things have never had tetnus)

[simple living mama]

Originally Posted by alegna

Even superficial cleaning with soap and water is great. Really. Rust is not harmful (and contrary to popular opinion has nothing to do with tetanus)

The body is really pretty good at cleaning things like that out with just a little bit of help.

-Angela

And something like epson salts to draw out infection is a good thing to do.